Conclusion / synthesis of the keyboard poll results

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by _wb_, Jul 21, 2015.

  1. _wb_

    _wb_ Microbe Staff Member

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    Sure, we could do that. I would let a short tap of Super pop up a normal main menu though, like on the Pandora. But a long press could show those things in an overlay, and of course if you want to do the Super+letter shortcuts, you don't have to wait for the overlay to show up.

    So yes, maybe hardware toggles are not a good default for Usr1 and Usr2, since we can cover that already with Super.

    Maybe context-menu key (also available as Shift-F10, but maybe a direct key is easier)?
     
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  2. FaeMinx

    FaeMinx Rainbow Liberation Instigation

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    I used the 'one statement' as an example of something you do repeatedly. I.e. fabricate collective preferance to suit your own opinions. And don't claim innocence here, you know perfectly well what you are doing. You will never admit it of course. You will deflect like you always do, like you've just done here. And guess what? What you think bothers me not in the slightest, you can think whatever you like... it's how you opperate in instances like this that i regard as devious and manipulative and i will not hesitate to point it out when i see it.


    You are actually doing yourself a disservice, because I am sure there are a number of us now that pretty much just skim your posts to avoid dealing with your tendancy to manipulate information and deflect.


    If you respected us enough not to do this, I'm sure we would give your proposals far more concideration and then you might actually find us supporting you a lot more.


    Just something to think about.
     
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  3. comradekingu

    comradekingu Glowing ember

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    So when I say I think the contrary to what my argument is, holds little preference, based on the no such thing seen, and you, taking that out of its context, forgetting how i only think this is the case, and you say this is fabricating 'collective preference' for the purpose of brainwashing who is manufacturing what exactly?

    What is your argument there, that you append 'us' onto..?

    If I wanted to deflect, why did I answer you, and why is it you categorize me based on 'one statement' without answering anything suggesting I provided an answer.

    Lets keep the door open for what is unbeknownst to me, (do provide more examples on pm and i'll look into it), and that if i wanted to brainwash you, I would be better at it.

    Fact of the matter is someone has to be the antagonist. If a design hasn't given something thought, or that isn't shared, either in the design or in explanation, unless we have an influx of people stating their opinion, insight is all we have. That is what i shared, and some part of it, wasn't substantiated, but rather in light of what other things there are to consider.

    Some people brought value into the mix, and you just got angry.

    I do not care if you like me, I don't care if you like my designs. I care only about what you state about the latter.

    If you cant see past that to deal with the content, and manage to get angry in the process, the loss is yours. Edit: I changed the initial thing you had an issue with, to read more to your liking, albeit very verbose. I hope my intention is now more clear.

    Lets look at the poll that suggests doublewide space is better (not non-centered doublewide, as that isn't stated, and centered was still very much up for consideration.)

    These are a selection people voting for singlespace, which unless i'm mistaken gained the most insight (by a factor of time spent), in the very least are inherently knowledgable about the actual designs in this thread:

    _wb_ comradekingu Grench rygD Saber ible

     

     

    Its very easy to see the difference it makes on the firstpost layouts, you either get a compose or you dont.

     

    My thinking is that the more buttons do something, in the way of working for two thumbs, rather than looking like 10finger design, on a device that has a limited selection of buttons, is better.

     

    The part where it makes the greatest difference is accounting for

     

    "How should the QWERTYUIOP row be aligned?" favouring international input.

     

    Just fix this single thing and those people can make amends. Either by using the compose to type their language, or DIY-hacking the default layout.

     

    I would be happy to put my albeit meagre money where my enormous mouth is and fund an alternative A-aligned layout.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2016
  4. Natsu

    Natsu Advanced Member

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    I rather have a big space button and having it on the side makes sense since having there would be easier for your thumb.

    While I still take some issues with the FN colors, if this is close to what is shipped, that would just be just fine.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2015
  5. comradekingu

    comradekingu Glowing ember

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    Its still going to be on the right, just in the size and actuation made for your thumb, as per the default for every other button, rather than a morphing of two buttons made to please your mind. Having a dual-button there wont make it available to your other thumb, which is why it doesn't make sense.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2015
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  6. Natsu

    Natsu Advanced Member

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    I was talking about the non-centered doublewide vs centered doublewide, not that I actually think that will change.To be fair to both the right and left handed people, mid would be best, but wouldn't be as good for those who are right handed. (Obvious Bias)

    Also, even if we were going to have the space button as one button, there would be one on each side.

    I rather be sure that I am hitting the space button and not have it blend in with the rest of the keys.
     
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  7. Grench

    Grench Forum Addict!

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    That render looks AWESOME.

    True, the alternate color chosen may take a bit to get used to. I'll gladly get used to it.

    Not sure if it's an artifact or other - what is that small black dot above and left of the 1 key?
     
  8. Natsu

    Natsu Advanced Member

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    The mic, iirc.
     
  9. rygD

    rygD Nihilistic Mystic

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    That is what I thought, as well.
     
  10. ible

    ible professional vim user

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    I might like User1/User2 as Mouse1/Mouse2, though I'd probably remap F11/F12 to User1/User2 so I can put M1/M2 above the right nub (so that I can click and drag with the left nub moving the mouse).

    I'm more worried about that sharp black edge poking out of the bottom left side of the case ;) .
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2015
  11. comradekingu

    comradekingu Glowing ember

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    So what i got from that was since you want a doublewide, and that middle would be good for that, it is ok to do the same doublewide on the right. Im pretty sure i got that wrong.

    Alas, not only is the premise of having a doublewide on the right gone, having a doublewide centered actually also doesnt carry over from 10finger boards in the same way.

    Interestingly, if you look at the sequences, and distance traveled, (longer) and input available, (less) centered doublewide is the same benefit. Yes you benefit at words ending in for example c or v, because you can travel to space with your left hand, but its at the same time farther away from punctuation its used in conjunction with every sentence, that is a given and not chance.

    As for dexterity, you have to look to what input dictates. English is already left biased. Both left and right-handed people will have to deal with that equally, and also use both thumbs.

    You could do the math, but in any event, dualwide middle is out, because it necessitates having numbers not as a number row, and that isnt preffered, and doesn't balance out. (and by that i mean nobody has been able to)

    Edit: Here is a visualization of singlewide based on the latest render:

    CK4N7RHWcAAhbEH.jpg:large2.jpeg
     
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  12. FaeMinx

    FaeMinx Rainbow Liberation Instigation

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    ^ I would much prefer a single width space and dedicated compose as illustrated above.


    But is there any point pursuing this? AFAIK the board, the case moulds, and the keymat are all finalized.
     
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  13. comradekingu

    comradekingu Glowing ember

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    No they aren't. The important bit is the making of the molds, which hasn't happened yet, for the case or the keymat.

    Once that happens, it decides the modularity of the whole thing. Because they cost a lot to make. To the tune of 10k euro+ per part.
     
  14. Neelix

    Neelix Insecticidal Maniac

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    Dude the ship has sailed,   just because you can still see it on the horizon doesn't mean you can bring it back by screaming at it from the dock.

    -Neelix
     
  15. FaeMinx

    FaeMinx Rainbow Liberation Instigation

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    Maybe if enough people scream loud enough, the ship will wonder 'what the hell?' and turn around...
     
  16. Neelix

    Neelix Insecticidal Maniac

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    nahh...  the best you can hope for is to get an enthusiastic wave from the departing passengers ;)

    -Neelix
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2015
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  17. Glyph Reader

    Glyph Reader Member

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    That or the local authorities investigate the incredibly loud screaming happening at the dock.  :)

    -Glyph Reader
     
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  18. Natsu

    Natsu Advanced Member

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    Honestly, I don't understand what your are saying. I meant mid buttom. Put the space button where the VB buttons are and shift them to the right. All I was saying is that, if the space button was in the middle (or two single space buttons on each side), that the left handed and right handed would have equal reach to the space button. Unlike the space button now, favoring the right. I still perfer the 2 buttons space on the right.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2016
  19. TrashyMG

    TrashyMG Sarcasm Dispenser Staff Member

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    That is a horrible idea. shifting around the alpha-numeric keys from the standard is a poor idea. If you are talking about being fair to left and right handed people, the only other best solution would have been to split the space bar into two single sized buttons on the left and right. I'm not totally sold on the idea that a right orientated spacebar is a real concern on a keyboard designed to be used with your thumbs. 
     
  20. comradekingu

    comradekingu Glowing ember

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    Natsu, that is also not an option. (ninjad by TrashyMG) Two buttons on the right, is the same bias towards right as one button for space on the right.

    The crux here is that using a second button for space on the right, only brings some parts of 10finger looks, but none of the benefit. It removes functionality (dedicated compose), is less efficient (since you cant move to the next button) has worse tactility (unevenly collapsing membrane) and modularity (international layouts, advanced layouts)

    Neelix: That is a false analogy. No ship has been made yet.

    You select between the two:

    Looks          Functionality     Efficiency               Feel              Modularity

    10finger-ish      Worse                 Worse               Worse                Worse

    Symmetric        Better                 Better                Better                 Better
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2015

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