Conclusion / synthesis of the keyboard poll results


I think a single compose key would be very useful:


Firstly, it's much easier to type quicker with it. Secondly; those who don't need it can use it for something very useful also.


It's better to have two keys: International users will benefit by being able to write easily in their native language. And if one really needs no Compose key, they could always use it for something else - like starting some voice/speech program.


So why can't we just split the space and we'll all be happy? :)


Anything else would just be rude to those not American (there's no £ key ;) ), French, or German.


And let's face it: we don't have many buttons as it is, so we can't really afford to throw one away just to make it look like other keyboards :p


Edit: Oh, and seeing as many users could be changing their Compose key anyway; why not put a symbol on it instead, so that it doesn't say anything 'wrong' on it?
 
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⎄ is the symbol for compose. Its a lot more flexible if you want to have that as something like push-to-talk.

Also you get the fn+compose for free, that could open a program if you wanted it to.

Typing out c-o-m-p-o-s-e also has the disadvantage that its 7 letters in a row, worsening s-e-l-e-c-t by 1, so it would be worst in class visibility to write compose.

Its hard to read anyhow, but if you want the fontsize to match, it will shrink everything else along with it.
 
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That is a horrible idea. shifting around the alpha-numeric keys from the standard is a poor idea. If you are talking about being fair to left and right handed people, the only other best solution would have been to split the space bar into two single sized buttons on the left and right. I'm not totally sold on the idea that a right orientated spacebar is a real concern on a keyboard designed to be used with your thumbs.
Well, I also said the splitting them to each side thing. Not that it matters, because I doubt it would change and I'm fine how it is now.

Two buttons on the right, is the same bias towards right as one button for space on the right.
Never said it wasn't. I was specifically talking about the space button.

The crux here is that using a second button for space on the right, only brings some parts of 10finger looks, but none of the benefit. It removes functionality (dedicated compose), is less efficient (since you cant move to the next button) has worse tactility (unevenly collapsing membrane) and modularity (international layouts, advanced layouts)


You select between the two:

Looks Functionality Efficiency Feel Modularity


10finger-ish Worse Worse Worse Worse


Symmetric Better Better Better Better
Not sure what you mean by "can't move to the next button". I'm pretty sure "feel" was already address by ED and you don't have it in your hand, so Idk how you came to that conclusion. Plus having a bigger key helps to distinguish it from the other keys,so please stop implying/saying it is just for looks.

Only function and modularity. Not everyone uses compose and I don't understand why it needs its own key anyway.

If we really go the one key route, one should be on the other side and both could be blank.
 
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It shouldn't come as a surprise I'm not a fan of the current rendered layout, and although most of it is what came from the two frontrunners of the poll, which were helped unintentionally by my layout having two keyboard Shifts, and in my opinion by including these: é à è ç, which definitely bumped the results up(and since this sleuthing found the poll linked here on a French forum and probably others), I don't think it's very good at what it should be trying to do, code and write. It's too inconsistent and lackluster compared to the hardware.

Note: colors used are as a guide only.  :)

v12: http://i.imgur.com/Yo1Br45.png

Editor is here.

Yo1Br45.png

Although brightness controls(would be unlabeled) are shown under keyboard Meta + Dpad, I'm unsure it's feasible but I think it's worth exploring if it gives us two extra user mappable buttons. Also, the "Any" key in this v12 layout here could be mapped to a "Third Shift" with it's own unique keycode, same like the User keys up top would have.  ;)

 
 
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(having split space on each side of the keyboard has been discussed and tried. We weren't able to balance a layout with it)

That is a horrible idea. shifting around the alpha-numeric keys from the standard is a poor idea. If you are talking about being fair to left and right handed people, the only other best solution would have been to split the space bar into two single sized buttons on the left and right. I'm not totally sold on the idea that a right orientated spacebar is a real concern on a keyboard designed to be used with your thumbs.
Well, I also said the splitting them to each side thing. Not that it matters, because I doubt it would change and I'm fine how it is now.
Two buttons on the right, is the same bias towards right as one button for space on the right.
Never said it wasn't. I was specifically talking about the space button.
Its hard to understand what you mean, could you draw it? To me it sounds like you are speaking about the space button onto itself as if it wasnt in a system with the rest. That would be a way to carry over logic from 10-finger boards that dont apply.

The crux here is that using a second button for space on the right, only brings some parts of 10finger looks, but none of the benefit. It removes functionality (dedicated compose), is less efficient (since you cant move to the next button) has worse tactility (unevenly collapsing membrane) and modularity (international layouts, advanced layouts)

You select between the two:

Looks Functionality Efficiency Feel Modularity

10finger-ish Worse Worse Worse Worse

Symmetric Better Better Better Better
Not sure what you mean by "can't move to the next button". I'm pretty sure "feel" was already address by ED and you don't have it in your hand, so Idk how you came to that conclusion. Plus having a bigger key helps to distinguish it from the other keys,so please stop implying/saying it is just for looks.
Only function and modularity. Not everyone uses compose and I don't understand why it needs its own key anyway.

If we really go the one key route, one should be on the other side and both could be blank.
You cant move in a straight line from button space → button because with noncentered doublewide space that makes it button → space → space → button.

You cant make a bar type key without stabilizers, of which there are two types, none of which are to be found in a pyra, look at your desktop keyboard. A lesser way of doing it is to employ more membranes, and/ scissors atop those, but none of that is the case. The only thing you can optimize is the individual membranes and size thereof (which i think isnt the case either) so you are down to an overall change of membranes throughout, that does not a bar key make.

Its not a bar type key in terms of 10-finger boards, it just looks like that, on every level. Function, or feel.

The most effective part is the leftmost button, adding something onto it on the right doesnt help. If you forego efficiency, to learn bad habits and find space, thats all you got, if you cant hit the rest of the keys without looking, feeling the whole doublewide doesn't help you. That is slower.

We shouldnt be left to decide between best feel and best efficiency. Doublewide makes this non-ideal, and singlewide works better for both, at the same time, every time.

You could be helped by doublewide for the first time trying the keyboard in pitch darkness, but then there is the backlight, so even for the premise of typing only space, that doesn't work.

If you don't have dedicated full layout buttons, you need compose even more. Dedicated compose is better than non-dedicated. Even if you never use it, that only means you get a configurable button extra.
 
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@Saber: I don't speak French, and only poor German, but I think it's a good thing that we are baking in excellent international support into the Pyra, putting international keys near where French and Germans expect them, and putting shift pairs in a very recognizable pattern (this helps the US peeps). To English-only speakers, they can remap some of the foreign keys in the QWERTY row to be shortcuts to symbols they'd prefer (e.g. {}[] if they are too far away, or even ` and ~). Putting [] and {} near the middle of the keyboard is just as bad as putting the letters FG and CV there, so perhaps we should put less frequently used letters there, like Z and X ;) .
 
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My god, you guys are still banging on about this? Don't any of you have a life?

D.
 
My god, you guys are still banging on about this? Don't any of you have a life?

D.
I've tried to stay out of it, but people were wrong on the internet.
What makes me chuckle is that the Pandora's keyboard was/is pretty dire, and even so we all managed quite well enough with that - bad as it is. There's really no need for anything more than small refinements, certainly not the megabytes of text these discussions generate.

D.
 
No we didnt, and the small matter of a 10key-looking space is the difference between dream-device and lackluster for those of us who didn't get along fine with the pandora keyboard.

For those the pandorakeyboard was fine for, there is _also_ a benefit to be had.
 
Having a single width space has numerous benefits.


I would be elated if ED shocked us all by saying he was giving it concideration even at this late stage.


An extra key means we don't just get 1 extra mapping, but 2! (Though i believe space should have nothing printed on it whatsoever to make it extremely easy to find).


Dedicated compose would be a boon to rapid typing of anything not easily accesible on the Fn layer.


And not that I'll ever need to do this, but isn't a true dvorak mapping possible only if we have that extra key? I'm sure this was discussed some time ago.


If so, wouldn't that be a great selling point for those who've switched over to dvorak?


It will be a shame if we miss this opportunity.


But if the ship is too far out to come fetch that poor genius who arrived at the docks too late...


Guess we'll still make do and it will be an awesome unparalleled device even so...


... it's just a shame is all.
 
(Though i believe space should have nothing printed on it whatsoever to make it extremely easy to find).
Unless it's dark and you're relying on the keyboard back light.  Then you're looking for nothing in the dark.

Like finding a black hole - it's there because nothing is there but it's presence can be felt.
 
(Though i believe space should have nothing printed on it whatsoever to make it extremely easy to find).
Unless it's dark and you're relying on the keyboard back light. Then you're looking for nothing in the dark.


Like finding a black hole - it's there because nothing is there but it's presence can be felt.
I believe the 'gap' would speak more loudly than anything that could be printed on it.
It would stand out like a sore thumb, be unmistakeable, immeadiately noticeable. Obvious.


No other key would be remotely similar.


Having nothing printed on it, I believe, would have as much visual impact and association with 'space' as doublewide has.


With doublewide, we have no choice but to print on it.
 
We have a double-wide space key on the right of the keyboard because of the Pandora's heritage. It would be a crying shame to see it go, it really would.

D.
 
What would you need Compose for, now that acute / grave / circumflex / diaeresis (umlaut) / tilde are covered and any language-specific letters you need could be mapped efficiently on the AltGr layer?

Even with a dedicated Compose key, it's still 3 keystrokes for just one letter. Dead diacritics are still more efficient (2 keystrokes), and the built-in éèàçüöäß or locale-specific AltGr symbols are even more efficient (just 1 keystroke, not counting the modifiers which you can do efficiently with the shoulder buttons without moving your thumbs).

I'm not against a single-width space, but let's not keep running in circles here, the decision has been made.
 
Awesome! One the formats I voted for made it in the top 3! :) I am pleased with that. Regardless, they are all great.
 
What would you need Compose for, now that acute / grave / circumflex / diaeresis (umlaut) / tilde are covered and any language-specific letters you need could be mapped efficiently on the AltGr layer?

Even with a dedicated Compose key, it's still 3 keystrokes for just one letter. Dead diacritics are still more efficient (2 keystrokes), and the built-in éèàçüöäß or locale-specific AltGr symbols are even more efficient (just 1 keystroke, not counting the modifiers which you can do efficiently with the shoulder buttons without moving your thumbs).

I'm not against a single-width space, but let's not keep running in circles here, the decision has been made.
I need compose for compose, compose is better than string-together compose, simple as.

The decision has not been made. Can we stop going in circles and pointing fingers at eachother. We all benefit with doing this right.
 
I'm very happy what kind of keyboard layout is about to come out at the end.

The community made it possible to get a good (perfect doesnt exist) layout, even without the extra key we had with single-with-space.

I hope the people who are complaining about the space-size are aware of this.
 
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