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Rule 0.25: Moxie can and will be insensitive.
The big Pyra keyboard poll
- Thread starter _wb_
- Start date
rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
I think that should be expanded to include all mods. They should be the bouncers of the internet.
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comradekingu
Glowing ember
In my head, the case for doublewide space is a definite misnormer.
So the idea of reaching out to the community, which is mine, is that rather than a count of heads, prior votes (most of which arent around to respond) to the contrary are checked for insight, and the people on my friend-list are asked to consider the matter.
Unfortunately the friend-list doesn't work like i think it does, it was in some cases not mutual, so sorry for that. It has been solved to ability.
Outside of ignoring the issue of receiving unwanted messages, i dont think anyone can do wrong by taking an informed stance on the matter. For both of the two prior groups, non-voters, and doublewide, votes to no surprise, come down mostly on the side of singlewide. Same as the people researching the matter.
Instinctively i thought doublewide was a good idea too. But design should account for more than that, that is what design is.
For those just voting right away it could be a case of shelf-picking what you are used to, because you know that works, not considering what that means in terms of consequences or actual differences. That is all fine, but too many people did that. Unknowingly by at least the amount recently switching sides.
Now i would be above this, if the issue could be financially irrelevant, but its not. All I want is for the discussion to produce the arguments, and the decision to be made based on those.
At this point that means voting for singlewide, because the powers to be refuse to see beyond this particular portion of this particular vote. And then we have half-decisions back and forth, people pointing at each-other, and a keyboard that is onto itself, plainly better or worse, with benefits for all layouts as an option to the better side.
If you disagree please vote accordingly and explain your choices.
So the idea of reaching out to the community, which is mine, is that rather than a count of heads, prior votes (most of which arent around to respond) to the contrary are checked for insight, and the people on my friend-list are asked to consider the matter.
Unfortunately the friend-list doesn't work like i think it does, it was in some cases not mutual, so sorry for that. It has been solved to ability.
Outside of ignoring the issue of receiving unwanted messages, i dont think anyone can do wrong by taking an informed stance on the matter. For both of the two prior groups, non-voters, and doublewide, votes to no surprise, come down mostly on the side of singlewide. Same as the people researching the matter.
Instinctively i thought doublewide was a good idea too. But design should account for more than that, that is what design is.
For those just voting right away it could be a case of shelf-picking what you are used to, because you know that works, not considering what that means in terms of consequences or actual differences. That is all fine, but too many people did that. Unknowingly by at least the amount recently switching sides.
Now i would be above this, if the issue could be financially irrelevant, but its not. All I want is for the discussion to produce the arguments, and the decision to be made based on those.
At this point that means voting for singlewide, because the powers to be refuse to see beyond this particular portion of this particular vote. And then we have half-decisions back and forth, people pointing at each-other, and a keyboard that is onto itself, plainly better or worse, with benefits for all layouts as an option to the better side.
If you disagree please vote accordingly and explain your choices.
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comradekingu
Glowing ember
It can be 3 keys wide all it wants, the place to do that is centered so you can reach it with both of your thumbs.
And it should be stabilized, because thats what a space-_bar_ is. Morphing keys together on one side to do it is everything done wrong for the purpose of looking "right". Insult added to injury by printing "compose" on it. When you find out it isn't functionally a space-bar, that part becomes a gimmick.
Not being able to find space is a unwarranted claim, and being able to find it by feeling your way to it, has no practical use.
Whereas tactility, modularity, efficiency and symmetrical aesthetics are all very real issues to solve/incorporate.
And it should be stabilized, because thats what a space-_bar_ is. Morphing keys together on one side to do it is everything done wrong for the purpose of looking "right". Insult added to injury by printing "compose" on it. When you find out it isn't functionally a space-bar, that part becomes a gimmick.
Not being able to find space is a unwarranted claim, and being able to find it by feeling your way to it, has no practical use.
Whereas tactility, modularity, efficiency and symmetrical aesthetics are all very real issues to solve/incorporate.
rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
I was going to comment and ask about this very topic, with a request for clarification from those that voted for wider (especially curious what hns would say). ingoreis, and others that are still around, how wide and where do you prefer the spacebar, and why?
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comradekingu
Glowing ember
Asking here is not the answer, because all these threads are autosaged.
Neelix
Insecticidal Maniac
All these threads are what?
-Neelix
-Neelix
comradekingu
Glowing ember
They don't register as "new content", so less people are aware they exist. It is the second idea after just locking it down. A repeat of the logos.
It doesn't solve anything when its all people want to talk about, and it fails to get anything done when it isn't, so it ranges from counterproductive to annoying.
In practical matters it fundaments the misguided view that creating practical limitations to the practical layout first, and then deciding what goes on it later, is the right way of doing things.
The potential issue there was crystal clear to me even before I set out to do anything.
Lets see how good this feedback loop is.
People looking into things thinks it isnt, produce arguments to that effect. Meanwhile one part of one vote, and flip-flopping and whatever else.
I just want a keyboard that works like a keyboard, button does button, outside of that i care on the level of everyone, but my benefit isn't even crucial to that goal, but to some layouts it is, what baffles me here is that it works better even for the proposed layout.
Its more _for_ everyone. How, is that not better, _for everyone_.
The aesthetics of that, have to follow suit, you cant avoid that argument. You could, but that would be right at the beginning, where it stopped making sense. Atleast follow up to the point where you say "that doesn't matter".
If not, if you want to create something based on initial assumptions, try it, on real people.
Some of which have tried the pandora, and some of which haven't. I don't know what's wrong with my research to that effect.
Unless there are more people designing keyboard and/or seeing the issue, we have a problem. One that cant be decided by saying its final, or picking one of two votes that had more people voting, but wasnt as decisive.
Or, I have a problem, because people don't recognise people that have an actual problem, and pedantic people are rare, but there you have me.
It doesn't solve anything when its all people want to talk about, and it fails to get anything done when it isn't, so it ranges from counterproductive to annoying.
In practical matters it fundaments the misguided view that creating practical limitations to the practical layout first, and then deciding what goes on it later, is the right way of doing things.
The potential issue there was crystal clear to me even before I set out to do anything.
Lets see how good this feedback loop is.
People looking into things thinks it isnt, produce arguments to that effect. Meanwhile one part of one vote, and flip-flopping and whatever else.
I just want a keyboard that works like a keyboard, button does button, outside of that i care on the level of everyone, but my benefit isn't even crucial to that goal, but to some layouts it is, what baffles me here is that it works better even for the proposed layout.
Its more _for_ everyone. How, is that not better, _for everyone_.
The aesthetics of that, have to follow suit, you cant avoid that argument. You could, but that would be right at the beginning, where it stopped making sense. Atleast follow up to the point where you say "that doesn't matter".
If not, if you want to create something based on initial assumptions, try it, on real people.
Some of which have tried the pandora, and some of which haven't. I don't know what's wrong with my research to that effect.
Unless there are more people designing keyboard and/or seeing the issue, we have a problem. One that cant be decided by saying its final, or picking one of two votes that had more people voting, but wasnt as decisive.
Or, I have a problem, because people don't recognise people that have an actual problem, and pedantic people are rare, but there you have me.
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That's the first step.
Seriously tho, you keep saying how unfunctional and how unfeeling the 2 buttons space is, yet never had it in your hand and you said you are ok with yet another button being taken up (rather you think it functional or not). Why are you so gung ho about taking away the 2 buttons space from the people who see the benefits?
What are you talking about? They most certainly pop up in my "new content" feed. All. Of. The. Time.
These threads most certainly do pop up. The fact that not everybody are writing in them isn't because they don't see them, it's because they don't care about yet another bikeshedding thread.
That goes straight into the sig
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Fixed it.Not going to put his name next to it?Moxie said:That goes straight into the sig
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Grench
Forum Addict!
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- Oct 3, 2008
- Messages
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Hey - do you have the one from "Trading Places" where the old guys are shouting, "Turn those machines back on!!!"? I keep thinking of that one as this drags on and on...
