Action button labels

[God Ginrai]

@God Ginrai... Okay so there is a disappointment between the current Pandora layout and what ever letters would be used in it's place?.. Since I doubt a Sega Genesis/Saturn layout will fit in the current amount of space I don't see it really as a problem. Not to mention I wouldn't be too un-receptive of the additional buttons outside of what the Pandora already has to have some more inventive labeling.

I have already explained earlier in this topic as well as in the 6-button topic how a Neogeo-style (which is very similar to Saturn-style) button configuration would fit in the current amount of space.

You claimed that they are only commonly used in math. I gave counter-examples.

 I claimed commonly used in daily life. This means that anyone should see this on a fairly recent basis.

Some people are linguists, biologists, physicists, astrologists, historians, college students, etc. in daily life. Sure, not in all professions you occasionally use Greek letters, but the list is certainly larger than just "mathematicians".

 That is not daily life for the general person. I wasn't trying to suggest that mathemeticians count as daily life either. However, simple calculations such as pi*r^2 or 2*pi*r are common enough that I included math as something that could have use in daily life. If you'd rather me say that Greek is not common in daily life at all, I would be willing to say that. However, I don't think that would help your point.

Of course not everyone uses Greek letters in daily life. Lots of people don't even use Latin letters in daily life, their job may not require a lot of reading and writing. Some people are illiterate. Chinese people may not be familiar with A B X Y or know how to pronounce the names of those letters.

 While I will admit that Latin letters are not used in the daily life for some countries, it is much more common than Greek is. The majority of Chinese people may not be familiar with A, B, X, or Y, however, a lot more Chinese people know those letters than the Greek characters.

The point is that a relatively large section of the Pandora/Pyra demographic may have at least a vague notion of some Greek letters -- compared to runes, Chinese characters, or Hebrew, I think the Greek alphabet is much more common. If you're interested in a Pandora/Pyra, it's likely that you're relatively well-educated, and maybe even have a background in (computer) science.

That's a very loaded generalization. I know plenty of people who would be interested in it simply because they could emulate old video game systems. They range from people who have jobs at a retail store to English majors. And sure, Greek may be more common than runes, Chinese characters, or Hebrew, but it isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to how common Latin characters are.

-God Ginrai

 

[TrashyMG]

Well lets boil this thread down.... If I'm the last to post it means I'm the most right.

 

[God Ginrai]

Well lets boil this thread down.... If I'm the last to post it means I'm the most right.

That never works. I never got my free Pandora from Squidge for being the last poster in the "Our New Machine" topic.

-God Ginrai

 

[Tenka]

I believe that all known reasons for wanting to suggest the Greek letter layout have been mentioned, and all known reasons for wanting to reuse the Pandora button layout have also been mentioned, so there is nothing else to be said to no one in particular in order to sway them to one of those two layouts.  Anything that is said about either one now will only be directed at someone who is suggesting the other, and neither side is going to convince the other that they are double wrong.  Please try to think of even more ideas now, things you would also be satisfied with if you became certain your preferred idea was not going to be chosen.  Or try to think of very stupid crazy ideas, those are just as subjectively good.

Also, I'm asking again that everyone stop telling somebody to start a poll.  There are very few ideas in this thread so far and very few of them are easy to find anymore.  A poll is used when the discussion is over, the ideas are closed, and it's down to numbers.  I don't want this poll to be limited to Greek or Pandora plus random stuff, and for everyone to begrudgingly vote on what they dislike slightly less.  If you are repeatedly demanding a poll then you are most likely against people adding new ideas, which is understandable if you can't imagine abandoning your current preference, because other ideas might weaken your votes in your poll.  But this is selfish, limiting the possibilities while we only have three or four is not favorable for the whole.

If we are going to have a poll, the last couple polls have shown me that a statement from EvilDragon about what he thinks are good or bad ideas and what ideas he knows are completely out of the question should come before the poll, not right after we've lined up a few specific things and then... changing the spelling or something.

 

[SNESFAN]

I've thought of about 3, got laughed at or ignored. Its all good. Keep beating that dead horse you guys. You almost got it.

 

[Tenka]

I've thought of about 3, got laughed at or ignored. Its all good. Keep beating that dead horse you guys. You almost got it.

What were they again? 

Animal pictures could work.  Mule-Coyote-Turtle-Shark-Penguin-Banana.  They're easy to any owner to recognize and can be typed in any language.  But then I suppose who gets to be the artist would become another issue.

 

[Neelix]

Ooh, I like a fruit theme, Apple, Banana, Pear, Grapes, Cherry and Strawberry.

Just need to be careful that the apple looks nothing like the logo of a certain large company...

- Neelix

 

[God Ginrai]

Also, I'm asking again that everyone stop telling somebody to start a poll.  There are very few ideas in this thread so far and very few of them are easy to find anymore.  A poll is used when the discussion is over, the ideas are closed, and it's down to numbers.  I don't want this poll to be limited to Greek or Pandora plus random stuff, and for everyone to begrudgingly vote on what they dislike slightly less.  If you are repeatedly demanding a poll then you are most likely against people adding new ideas, which is understandable if you can't imagine abandoning your current preference, because other ideas might weaken your votes in your poll.  But this is selfish, limiting the possibilities while we only have three or four is not favorable for the whole.

I'm not advocating a poll or anything, but there have been a lot of ideas already. Over 10 different ones in fact.

Back on page 17, _wb_ put a list of the 10 we had so far together:

Maybe we should make a list of all the (serious) proposals and do a poll?

Here is my attempt to make a list, did I forget something?

1) SEGA-style

        Z

    Y     C

X     B

    A

1b) variant with underlines to distinguish game buttons from keyboard keys

        Z

    Y     C

X     B

    A

2) Pandora layout + C and Z

        Z

    Y     C

A     B

    X

2b)

        C1

    Y     C2

A     B

    X

3) Greek letters that look a bit like Playstation layout

        Φ

    Δ      ψ

Π     Ω

    χ

4) Numbers / dice symbols

⚀  ⚁  ⚂  ⚃  ⚄  ⚅  in some order, for example:

5) Colors

       O

    P    B

G    Y

   R

5b)  (a variant on the above, using additive RGB colors)

        C

    B     G

M     Y

    R

6)   (I swapped Caine's symbols around to make it closer to the Playstation layout)

        ←   

    ⌂    ✓

≡    ⚇

   ✗

7)

8) Playing cards

     R

  ♣   B

♦  ♥

  ♠

9) Directions + extra buttons

         X1

    N     X2

W    E

    S

10) Chess

      ♔ 

   ♗   ♕

♙   ♘

   ♖

There have since been variants and alterations proposed for some of these ideas, but the point is that at 10 pages back, we already had at least 10. That is hardly "few".

Oh, also on the subject of a poll, I believe that if one is made, the person making the poll should get the definitive version(s) of each layout suggestion from the person who suggested it.

-God Ginrai

 

[Exophase]

So _wb_ included all those 10 but still ignored mine again? :/

11) Pandora-like (lowercase) Greek layout

    μ
  γ   ν
α   β
  χ

 

[bzar]

Oh, there was one suggestion in IRC:


X
Y A
Z B
C

The point to this one was to use the SNES layout logically extended to include Z and C. Has its upsides, has its downsides

 

[TrashyMG]

This works for me.
2b)
 
        C1
    Y     C2
A     B
    X

 

[_wb_]

So _wb_ included all those 10 but still ignored mine again? :/


11) Pandora-like (lowercase) Greek layout


μ
γ ν
α β
χ

Sorry for forgetting your proposal. It's easy to lose track in this thread. Here are some other proposals I also forgot:

12) Media buttons

13) PgUp/PgDn/Home/End/whatever (in symbols or in words)

14) Runes

15) Roman numerals

16) Playstation symbols + pentagon, hexagon

17) No labels at all (blank buttons)

18) Mathematical symbols

19) Music symbols

20) Smileys

21) Extended SNES (reverse SEGA)

 

[Klumpen]

If you want to keep the old labels, you could go for:

    Y    C1

A      B   C2

    X

N64 reference, but who cares?

Alternative:

    Y    Z1

A      B   Z2

    X

This works for me.


2b)

 

        C1

    Y     C2

A     B

    X

Did somebody actually not ignore one of my suggestions or was it reinvented again, because it was buried under greek letters like most of the rest?

 

[milkshake]

Lol I also suggested something similar ;-) and got told that it looked rubbish.

 

[WizardStan]

Sorry for forgetting your proposal. It's easy to lose track in this thread. Here are some other proposals I also forgot

What about me lucky charms?!

 

[Klumpen]

I am against keeping the old layout and against greek letters, just to make myself clear.

I will not repeat my alternatives over and over again though.

This discussion has become as annoying as the threads about the new name, the threads about the logo and the threads about the SoC.

It's always about who is the loudest and most repetitive one (party or person).

 

[Tenka]

Oh.  That is quite a bit, excuse my memory.  And I like more than a few of these.  I continue to fear polls being used as an end-all Final Say though.  Only as yet another consideration.

 

[Tenka]

I love Chess but I can't help but irk at the pattern seeming nonsense, because Chess has its own very important pattern.

 

[Klumpen]

I neither like chess nor the idea using those or other complex icons.

 

[Kiga]

11) Pandora-like (lowercase) Greek layout


μ
γ ν
α β
χ

That look good. Nobody said it, but I think the reason some people are against greek letters is because they don't want something gaudy (even if they would be accustomed after a short time).

That is less gaudy than capital Greek's letters and look like their cherished habits. I think it's a good compromise since there isn't ambiguity anymore.