Action button labels: poll

Can the action buttons be labeled with Latin letters or should they have unique symbols?

  • Latin letters are OK

    Votes: 67 72.0%
  • Other symbols are OK

    Votes: 60 64.5%

  • Total voters
    93

_wb_

Microbe
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There has been a lot of discussion in http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/15736-action-button-labels -- maybe it is time to make a poll now.

One fundamental question is: are Latin letters (e.g. A B C X Y Z) acceptable or not? It has been argued that since we already have a keyboard which has those letters, the action buttons should have different symbols on them to avoid confusion. E.g. when you say "Press A" it is not necessarily clear whether you mean the keyboard key "A" or the action button "A". A counter-argument to that is that things can be disambiguated by talking about either "the A button" or "the A key".

In favor of Latin letters, it has also been argued that different symbols are harder to communicate since some people will not know their name or how to type the symbol. Counter-arguments to that is that are only devs really have to type the symbol (e.g. in help screens), we can put the symbols in visible places (e.g. Pyra home page) so people can copy/paste them, we can add color so you can refer to the buttons by color if you don't know how to say the name, and you can refer to buttons by position or shape of the symbol too.

I'm not going to repeat the advantages and disadvantages of Latin or non-Latin for each of the proposals below, so just keep it in mind.

There are various layout suggestions for Latin letters and for different symbols. You can first select all options that are acceptable to you. If you don't care about the labels at all, you should select all options. If you don't really like an option, but you can live with it, you should select it. In the next question you can select all options that are prefered by you. Only select options you would really be happy with.

Here are the proposals. Sorry for not including all of the proposals -- if I missed something you would like to have included in the poll, please say so.

Latin letter proposals:

1) Pandora layout + C and Z
 
        C
    Y     Z
A     B
    X

Pro: great for backwards compatibility

Con: looks illogical

2) Pandora layout + two extra buttons

(here shown as C1 and C2 but this could also be Z1 and Z2 or something like that)

        C1
    Y     C2
A     B
    X

Pro: great for backwards compatibility

Con: looks illogical

 
3) SEGA-style
        Z
    Y     C
X     B
    A

Pro: great for SEGA emulation, looks logical

Con: not Pandora compatible (X and A are swapped)

4) Extended SNES

      X
   Y    A
Z    B
   C


Pro: great for Nintendo emulation, looks somewhat logical

Con: not Pandora compatible at all

5) Colored letters
(the other proposals can be colored too, but for this one it is obligatory)
       Y
   M     B
C     G
    R


Edit: Note that the letters themselves don't necessarily have to be colored, it could also be the buttons themselves that are colored (cf. the last question in the poll).

6) Directions + extra buttons
         X1
    N     X2
W    E
    S


New symbols proposals:

7) Greek letters that look a bit like Playstation layout
        Φ
    Δ      ψ
Π     Ω
    χ
 

Pro: great for PSX/PSP emulation, fits the Greek name "theme", looks stylish according to some

Con: many people don't know the names of Greek letters

8) Pandora-like (lowercase) Greek layout

      μ
   γ    ν
α    β
   χ


Pro: the only "new symbols" that are backwards compatible

Con: some people may consider it as just a "weird font" for A B X Y M V

9) Dice symbols
⚀  ⚁  ⚂  ⚃  ⚄  ⚅  in some order (without the boxes around the pips)

Edit: Example button design:

2mmxr0x.png


Pro: logical sequence

Con: mental confusion with number keys, could be hard to quickly visually distinguish the buttons

10) Various PlayStation-inspired symbols
       ⌂
   ⚇    ←
≡   

   ✗

Pro: buttons have a "default" meaning, nice for homebrew stuff

Con: may look a bit random, hard to describe buttons

 
11) Playing card symbols + red/black

    R
    
B
♦  
  ♠

Edit: alternative:

    R
  ♣   B
♦  
  ♠

Pro: well-known symbols

Con: does not extend well from 4 to 6; symbols have different names in each language, "R" and "B" are Latin letters (Edit: underline helps to disambiguate)

 
12) Chess pieces

      ♔ 
   ♗   ♕
♙   ♘
   ♖

Pro: well-known symbols

Con: not everyone knows their names ("Press [ROOK]!"), could be hard to distinguish e.g. pawn from bishop.

13) Media buttons

1zjl29.png


Pro: could be used in media players

Con: makes the Pyra look like a media player

14) Roman numerals
 

      Ⅵ
    Ⅴ   Ⅲ
Ⅳ    Ⅱ
     Ⅰ

Con: "I" and "V" are Latin letters, also mental confusion with number keys possible

15) Just label them with their keyboard mapping:

                    [ins ]
          [PgUp]       [Del ]
[Home]        [End ]
          [PgDn]

or with symbols:

      ⎆
   ⇞   ⌦
⇱   ⇲
   ⇟


Pro: good for non-gaming use

Con: would be weird in games

16) No labels at all

Edit: I forgot this one (thanks, Neelix):

17) Alphanumeric combinations

For example:

        Z3

    Z2      C3

Z1      C2

      C1

Pro: easy to type and say and express in code, fits with the existing convention for L1, L2, R1 and R2

Edit: one more as requested by Klumpen and Ziz:

18) Arabic numbers:

        6

    5      3

4      2

    1

Con: confusion with number keys
 
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Thanks.

You should add 4 buttons or 6 buttons.

My opinion:

I'm against Latin letters because it makes no sense to use it as they are already used with the keyboard. A button label is made to differentiate button, so it should never be 2 buttons with the same label. Pyra is a particular console with a keyboard, so it should have his own labeling, and not following common label.

I'm not agree with argument which say that some people don't now how to name Greek letters, because we pratically never have to name them and people who don't know how to name it will find a way.

I believe Pyra's community are enough intelligent to memorize 4 word, or they could use the symbol, or name it like psx button.

I think Greek's letters are the best option because they look good, they are a between A,B,Y,X and △,,◯, X.  Also Greek letters are used in sciences, so it's a nod to Pyra's Geek community.
 
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You should add 4 buttons or 6 buttons.
The poll like it is right now is assuming 6 buttons, because ED has said that he is trying to make that work.

If 6 buttons turns out to be impossible, and we end up with only 4, then I think the poll needs to be re-done. I think there would be more reason to stay with the Pandora layout if there are no extra buttons, so people would probably vote differently depending on the number of buttons.

So for the purposes of this poll, please assume that we will have 6 action buttons (even though that is not sure yet).
 
The dice faces don't look as cool if you leave out the themed concave button picture.
 
I think you've overlooked a possibility that satisfies all my original criteria and also lacks the disadvantages raised for almost every symbol set suggested. It was suggested a couple of times in the other thread but largely ignored.

Use latin alphanumeric characters for the labels but don't use individual letters on their own.

In the examples above you have examples which include button names such as C1, C2, but they are combined with the single letter buttons so the example sets as a whole wouldn't work for me. But if you extend that convention to the other buttons, you have a system that does work for me.

e.g. C1, C2, C3, Z1, Z2, Z3

The button names would be unique, easy to type and say and express in code, and there would be no need for anyone to have to learn the names of any symbols. It also fits with the existing convention for L1, L2, R1 and R2 which no-one is contesting.

You could also use short words or random letter combinations I suppose, but I personally think alphanumeric combinations make the most sense.

- Neelix
 
If Neelix succeeds I hope that only one letter is chosen for the six buttons, so they are different only in number.  Did Neelix intend for that?  I think I'm misunderstanding the example because I don't know the significance of C or Z especially.

Edit:It's starting to dawn on me that there is a subject I don't comprehend enough to even notice.  Those letters were probably chosen specially in order to make the letter number combinations fit into the ruleset he's speaking of.  I'll go shamefully read about that now.
 
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The dice faces don't look as cool if you leave out the themed concave button picture.
OK, included the dice picture. Most of the proposals would look cooler with proper pictures though.

action_buttons.png


I also added Neelix' alphanumerical suggestion as an option to the poll.
 
I'm not sure how influential this poll will be to ED and crew, but if we can have six buttons, I'd like them labeled as I have them in the Unofficial Keyboard Layouts thread revised recently as PYRAXB.
 
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If Neelix succeeds I hope that only one letter is chosen for the six buttons, so they are different only in number. Did Neelix intend for that? I think I'm misunderstanding the example because I don't know the significance of C or Z especially.
That could work too. I was thinking that it would make sense to have two rows of 3 buttons, giving each row a different letter, I chose C and Z arbitrarily because they weren't A, B, X or Y.

- Neelix
 
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I'm not sure how influential this poll will be to ED and crew, but if we can have six buttons, I'd like them labeled as I have them in the Unofficial Keyboard Layouts thread revised recently as PYRAXB.
The button layout in that thread is rather weird, I thought there was a consensus to keep the cross-shape for the 4 existing buttons and add the 2 new buttons in a way that forms two rows of three buttons?

Can I reformulate your proposal like this:

      P

   Y    R

A    B

   X

or do you insist on the layout? I don't really want this poll to be about button layout -- we already discussed that in a different place (http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14639-6-buttons-abcdxy-and-4-shoulder-buttons/)
 
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I'm not sure how influential this poll will be to ED and crew, but if we can have six buttons, I'd like them labeled as I have them in the Unofficial Keyboard Layouts thread revised recently as PYRAXB.
The button layout in that thread is rather weird, I thought there was a consensus to keep the cross-shape for the 4 existing buttons and add the 2 new buttons in a way that forms two rows of three buttons?

Can I reformulate your proposal like this:

      P

   Y    R

A    B

   X

or do you insist on the layout? I don't really want this poll to be about button layout -- we already discussed that in a different place (http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14639-6-buttons-abcdxy-and-4-shoulder-buttons/)
Actually there are two practicable layouts in that thread post:

Layout #1

Layout #2

I'd prefer how it is labeled and arranged though in the second one if the consensus is to have the six side-by-side less cross more diamond pattern.
 
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I'm not sure how influential this poll will be to ED and crew, but if we can have six buttons, I'd like them labeled as I have them in the Unofficial Keyboard Layouts thread revised recently as PYRAXB.
The button layout in that thread is rather weird, I thought there was a consensus to keep the cross-shape for the 4 existing buttons and add the 2 new buttons in a way that forms two rows of three buttons?

Can I reformulate your proposal like this:

      P

   Y    R

A    B

   X

or do you insist on the layout? I don't really want this poll to be about button layout -- we already discussed that in a different place (http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14639-6-buttons-abcdxy-and-4-shoulder-buttons/)
Actually there are two practicable layouts in that thread post:

Layout #1

Layout #2

I'd prefer how it is labeled and arranged though in the second one if the consensus is to have the six side-by-side less cross more diamond pattern.
So you don't want it to be

      P

   Y    R

A    B

   X

but it has to be

      P

   Y    R

X    A

   B

?

Breaking Pandora compatibility?

I'll add it to the poll if your proposal is supported by at least one other person but yourself. There are quite a lot of options already, I'm not going to keep adding new options unless there is some evidence that more than one person supports it.
 
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I'm not sure how influential this poll will be to ED and crew, but if we can have six buttons, I'd like them labeled as I have them in the Unofficial Keyboard Layouts thread revised recently as PYRAXB.
The button layout in that thread is rather weird, I thought there was a consensus to keep the cross-shape for the 4 existing buttons and add the 2 new buttons in a way that forms two rows of three buttons?

Can I reformulate your proposal like this:

      P

   Y    R

A    B

   X

or do you insist on the layout? I don't really want this poll to be about button layout -- we already discussed that in a different place (http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14639-6-buttons-abcdxy-and-4-shoulder-buttons/)
Actually there are two practicable layouts in that thread post:

Layout #1

Layout #2

I'd prefer how it is labeled and arranged though in the second one if the consensus is to have the six side-by-side less cross more diamond pattern.
So you don't want it to be

      P

   Y    R

A    B

   X

but it has to be

      P

   Y    R

X    A

   B

?

Breaking Pandora compatibility?

I'll add it to the poll if your proposal is supported by at least one other person but yourself. There are quite a lot of options already, I'm not going to keep adding new options unless there is some evidence that more than one person supports it.
Yes that's right the second one. No reason to look backward when moving forward. As for breaking compatibility, most of those above pummeled it already into dust before mine.

Also to be clear, X and B have a purpose behind their labels and positions; they are Delete and Backspace and are just above the keypad.
 
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If 6 buttons turns out to be impossible, and we end up with only 4, then I think the poll needs to be re-done. I think there would be more reason to stay with the Pandora layout if there are no extra buttons, so people would probably vote differently depending on the number of buttons.
Ayep. 
 
_wb_, I have to request that you list this as an alternative to the Suits layout. Having Spade and Heart in the A and B positions makes more logical sense and the underlines help differentiate the Red and Black labels from the keyboard, which dissolves the con you were listing about the Red and Black buttons.

11) Playing card symbols + red/black

    R

  ♣   B

♦  

  ♠

Also, for the colored letters option, you should list colored letters/colored buttons with letters. Both are options that work, and colored buttons might be easier to produce than colored letters.

-God Ginrai
 
not seeing my suggestion in here
Did you have a (serious) suggestion?

You forgot the numbers only design...
You mean 1 2 3 4 5 6 in Arabic numerals? Is anyone seriously proposing that? It would be rather confusing given that we also have number keys. I guess I could add it as an option if someone insists...

@God Ginrai: edited first post to reflect your comments
 
You forgot the numbers only design...
Yep, my current favourite alternative to NWES and there were a few others that liked it:

    5    6

4      2   3

    1
 
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