Action button labels: poll 3 (final poll?)

[Natsu]

There is to be a hole to the right of Y?  As in a screw?  If so that sucks

Yes and yes it does.

A button can't be placed between the other four, because it prevents thumb rocking presses, and that placement requires just as much button hopping. Our right thumbs come from the south east.

Just make the two buttons lower.

 

[levi]

As I recall the prototype board, the hardware buttons on the top row don't span the entire row, so that means you can move the support hole even closer to the corner potentially, it'd seem to me. But without official confirmation of whether such an idea is feasible, it's just another what if and doesn't really get us anywhere.

 

[Grench]

As I recall the prototype board, the hardware buttons on the top row don't span the entire row, so that means you can move the support hole even closer to the corner potentially, it'd seem to me. But without official confirmation of whether such an idea is feasible, it's just another what if and doesn't really get us anywhere.

Put a button in the middle of the speaker then?  Mmm..  no.

Something to ponder.  Look closer at the arrangement of the letters.

C   Y

A        B

Z   X

If you visualize your thumb coming in from the right at an angle of 135 degrees, it will naturally 'fall' in a line going between X, B then between A, Y to C.  Minimal to no movement of your thumb is then required to touch any of these 5 buttons.  You will still have to move your thumb down/left to hit Z.

However, by happenstance, this organization of the keys -adds- efficiency over the 'normal' two rows of 3.  I could see it becoming very natural with some small adjustment time.  The 'feel' of this arrangement should be excellent.

 

[levi]

Oh yeah, forgot about the speakers. Good point.

 

[Natsu]

As I recall the prototype board, the hardware buttons on the top row don't span the entire row, so that means you can move the support hole even closer to the corner potentially, it'd seem to me. But without official confirmation of whether such an idea is feasible, it's just another what if and doesn't really get us anywhere.

Put a button in the middle of the speaker then?  Mmm..  no.

Something to ponder.  Look closer at the arrangement of the letters.

C   Y

A        B

Z   X

If you visualize your thumb coming in from the right at an angle of 135 degrees, it will naturally 'fall' in a line going between X, B then between A, Y to C.  Minimal to no movement of your thumb is then required to touch any of these 5 buttons.  You will still have to move your thumb down/left to hit Z.

 

If that the case, Z would be easier to hit on the other side.

 C  Y


 A       B


     X   Z

I think the concern over accidental presses are exaggerated. The extra buttons could be lowered just a little bit as well.

 

[God Ginrai]

^ I support the idea of normal (SEGA-similar) 6-button layout on 100% from the beginning.

but if the space does not allow it, then I prefer the original clean Pandora/SNES design.

 There is room. There have been multiple ways to fit the 6-button arrangement suggested.

This is why EvilDragon should use a normal 6-button layout.

 So, since nobody has jumped in frozen water with a boulder attached to their feet, ED should do it too i guess? That's the only reason you can find to justify your proposition ?

No, since no one has jumped in frozen water with a boulder attached, that doesn't mean that EvilDragon should. I said that EvilDragon should keep the status quo for 6-button configurations, not do something that doesn't make sense.

Color doesn't have to mean "toy". There are plenty of ways to design things to make use of color and still be useful.

 Yeah, like the gamecube? Oops, it did look like a toy.

I'm pretty sure this boring-ass printer panel with colored buttons certainly doesn't look like a toy:

-God Ginrai

 

[EvilDragon]

^ I support the idea of normal (SEGA-similar) 6-button layout on 100% from the beginning.

but if the space does not allow it, then I prefer the original clean Pandora/SNES design.

 There is room. There have been multiple ways to fit the 6-button arrangement suggested.

Please show me one suggestion which fits the current space we use for our four buttons without decreasing the size of the buttons (which I don't like) or moving them further to the edge of the case (not possible due to mechanical restrictions).

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

^ I support the idea of normal (SEGA-similar) 6-button layout on 100% from the beginning.but if the space does not allow it, then I prefer the original clean Pandora/SNES design.

 There is room. There have been multiple ways to fit the 6-button arrangement suggested.

Please show me one suggestion which fits the current space we use for our four buttons without decreasing the size of the buttons (which I don't like) or moving them further to the edge of the case (not possible due to mechanical restrictions).

Dunno if you have tried a ps vita but the small buttons work well in that design.


There is only four though.


On the other hand perhaps 4 shoulder buttons and 4 face buttons is enough for the pyra.


I like the 6 face button idea but perhaps its not practical.

 

[TrashyMG]

I'm honestly not a fan of the current 6 button layout.. I rather have 4 face buttons / 4 shoulder buttons instead of something just thrown together to get 6 face buttons for the sake of having 6 buttons.

Maybe have a few utility keys around the start/select buttons instead of game buttons?

 

[EvilDragon]

Dunno if you have tried a ps vita but the small buttons work well in that design.

There is only four though.

Yes, I have a Vita.

And I really find those buttons uncomfortable, even though they still have the same space inbetween the buttons as the PSP has (there's always 1cm between Square and Circle, on both the PSP and Vita).

Our issue was that we'd need to make the smaller to decrease the space between them - and that would be even more uncomfortable.

I also most of the time accidentally hit the right stick when trying to press Square or X on the Vita.

I'm honestly not a fan of the current 6 button layout.. I rather have 4 face buttons / 4 shoulder buttons instead of something just thrown together to get 6 face buttons for the sake of having 6 buttons.

Well, the current layout wouldn't get in your way with the current 4-button layout, so you could just ignore these buttons.

 

[TrashyMG]

Well, the current layout wouldn't get in your way with the current 4-button layout, so you could just ignore these buttons.

As long as it doesn't interfere then I'll be happy. I was just having a hard time imagining how it could be done without interfering too much.

 

[hipnotoad]

Ahem...

       O

    O o O

    o O

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, the current layout wouldn't get in your way with the current 4-button layout, so you could just ignore these buttons.

As long as it doesn't interfere then I'll be happy. I was just having a hard time imagining how it could be done without interfering too much.

Smaller buttons, a bit lower than the big ones as well in an area where your thumb only moves when you actually want to press them.

That should definitely not interfere

 

[Natsu]

Ahem...

       O

    O o O

    o O

 I think  

    o O

    O o O

       O

would be better.

 

[hipnotoad]

Everyone has their preference but the upper left button is the main cause of problems in my eyes, I just cant imagine it ever being practical orcomfortable to use.

 

[God Ginrai]

^ I support the idea of normal (SEGA-similar) 6-button layout on 100% from the beginning.

but if the space does not allow it, then I prefer the original clean Pandora/SNES design.

 There is room. There have been multiple ways to fit the 6-button arrangement suggested.

Please show me one suggestion which fits the current space we use for our four buttons without decreasing the size of the buttons (which I don't like) or moving them further to the edge of the case (not possible due to mechanical restrictions).

 I posted this just now in the other topic, however I will post it here as well, since you have requested a suggestion:

Thank you for responding to my question.

I understand your wishes not to make the buttons smaller and closer together, (although I do believe that I wouldn't mind the buttons being more the size and distance of the GP2X, but that's my preference) However, there should still be room if you move the nubs closer towards the Start/Home/Select buttons. Not much extra room is needed to fit those extra 2 buttons, and there is room to be had by moving those nubs closer.

-God Ginrai

Dunno if you have tried a ps vita but the small buttons work well in that design.

There is only four though.

Yes, I have a Vita.

And I really find those buttons uncomfortable, even though they still have the same space inbetween the buttons as the PSP has (there's always 1cm between Square and Circle, on both the PSP and Vita).

Our issue was that we'd need to make the smaller to decrease the space between them - and that would be even more uncomfortable.

Question: What did you think about the size and distance of the buttons on the GP2X-F100? I found them to be rather nice. They are about the same size, or slightly smaller, as the Pandora's buttons and are closer together. I didn't find them hard to use. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

-God Ginrai

 

[Yoyobuae]

How about adding a little dot to Latin letter labels:

Then the buttons can be referred to either by the Latin letter label or via "dot notation" icons:

A =

B =

X =

Y =

C =

Z =

 

[ShleeDragon]

^
this is perfect.. let's roll with it
ヽ༼ ಠ益ಠ ༽ﾉヽ༼ ಠ益ಠ ༽ﾉヽ༼ ಠ益ಠ ༽ﾉヽ༼ ಠ益ಠ ༽ﾉヽ༼ ಠ益ಠ ༽ﾉヽ༼ ಠ益ಠ ༽ﾉヽ༼ ಠ益ಠ ༽ﾉ

The buttons can have a secondary 'real' function. like page up... obviously doesn't need it burnt into the plastic.

also, the keys should be obvious.. so ABXY C/Z combo works for me (as long as pressing A doesn't trigger the A on the keyboard).

 

[_wb_]

I think labels for Home/End/PgUp/PgDn/Ins?/Del? are needed, either in text or as a symbol. Same with the shoulder buttons: if they're Shift/Ctrl/Alt/AltGr, it should say so on the button itself. Of course that requires the labels to be printed, not engraved. The action buttons could be part of the keymat and get backlight too.

It's not a good idea to force people to "just know" what a button does. The 4+2 "unlabeled" keyboard keys on the Pandora are like a hidden easter egg, it takes some people months before they know about it. This is not good. Let's not make it worse by having 6+4 "unlabeled" keyboard keys on the Pyra.

 

[Natsu]

Should be said on a software guide. I don't really want those on my face buttons.