Action button labels, again


Maybe it is not the best possible layout, but it sure is the best to date. Maybe we should now argue about adding a button layout to the two smaller ones too, like + and - or Z and C ?
 
thebuttonclusternew.pngthebuttonclusterBXYA.png
 
I also would be happy if the action keys just have Home/End/PgUp/PgDn as labels. Just to mention it.
 
Comradekingu, I see you're trying to compare 1) your "minimalistic" < ^ v > design to 2) the "more complicated" Home/End/PgUp/PgDn design, and yes, from an æsthetic point of view you may have a point there, but those circles I put around the buttons are not something that is different between 1) and 2).

Those circles are a consequence of having a margin of transparent silicone around the button keycaps:

Code:
< _wb_> EvilDragon: is that ring/border around the yellow/green/red bits going to be 
              transparent or will it be painted?
< _wb_> if it's transparent then the buttons/keys get a rather big border with the backlight
< EvilDragon> _wb_, That's the silicon mat.
< EvilDragon> It needs to encapsulate tha plastic.
< EvilDragon> It's transparent.
< _wb_> EvilDragon: so with the backlight, there are thick circles around whatever button labels the action buttons get?
< EvilDragon> When you have the backlight enabled, yes.
< _wb_> and the same with the keyboard keys, thin rounded rectangles around those?
< EvilDragon> _wb_, Exactly.
 
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Did comradekingu ever directly respond to the critique of his layout, "the d-pad is already thought of as directions and everyone is going to mix those up"?  I have other problems with it, I might plea that simplest does not equate to best, and when trying to find a comfortable balance between simple and useful, it's certain that the very most simple possibility isn't going to work, but I haven't caught comradekingu making any statement about arrows on one side being really easy to mix up with arrows on the other side.  Until then, I'm not sure there's a reason to say anything else about it.
 
^ I agree.

From my point of view, putting arrows on the game buttons is sure to get them muddled with the d-pad.

You couldn't even refer to Right1 as the direction on the dpad and RIght2 as the direction on the game buttons, because of confusion with the shoulders.

Nope, nope, nopey-nopey, no, nope!

Its only slightly better than the "CARL" keyboard layout :/
 
<v^> aren't arrows, just as much as they arent ←↓↑→ on a regular keyboard, when they are similarly in different places. So you aren't mistaking buttoncluster and keyboard, (which was a problem to solve), but dpad for buttoncluster?

If you say press "←↓↑→" on a pandora, thats not marked, if thats not a problem, then telling them to press <v^> in the comparatively few native games, is ok as long as you don't mix up the two on your side. With junk explanation, you can make anything sound confusing.

Right2 isn't ever on buttoncluster, and Right1, I don't know what that's supposed to mean. Heavily projected argument.
 
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I dont have that problem, but from playing emulators with a keyboard, i do press X on the keyboard when told to press that in pnd_manager for example.

Adding onto it, we are back at W3EM, which cant be written in unicode. Going from direction to arbitration easily typed but not easily found on a keyboard doesnt have any other options that ive been able to find.

I call the buttons home end pageup pagedn ins and del, then if people ask what that is, you only need to say "the bottommost button on the buttoncluster" every so often. Difference is it becomes something of value that you learnt.
 
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I dont have that problem, but from playing emulators with a keyboard, i do press X on the keyboard when told to press that in pnd_manager for example.
To me the Gui hints in PNDManager are quite easy to understand, I don't think this is as big of a problem you make it out to be.
 
I dont have that problem
That's because the problem doesn't exist yet.There is a huge difference between "Press A" and getting confused by the A key or the A button, vs "Press v" and getting confused between the V key and the downward action button which also conveniently has a "V" like label but is not, actually, V.
 
To me the Gui hints in PNDManager are quite easy to understand, I don't think this is as big of a problem you make it out to be.
The icons actually look like buttons and even have directional dot indicators, if there was ever some GUI to model off it would be PNDManager.
 
I'm confused.

Why do some people believe ABXY is a superior choice to NESW?

From my quick perusal of this thread there are not many people who would need to think twice to know which button to press upon prompting if we used NESW.

Thus usability of the device is (very slightly) improved. Also NESW is both original and sensible, the sort of little thing that sticks in the mind of users and reviewers.

Adding PgUp PgDn etc makes the labelling of game buttons appear overly cluttered IMHO

As mentioned before this is no big deal, it is of course much more important that the buttons feel good and work well in a physical sense. I'd happily live with ABXY, but why use ABXY if a superior alternative exists?
 
As mentioned before this is no big deal, it is of course much more important that the buttons feel good and work well in a physical sense. I'd happily live with ABXY, but why use ABXY if a superior alternative exists?

Superior is debatable, ABXY is known convention. NESW will still be a new concept, despite having the benefit of having direction. While most people know English, West in other languages starts with O, then in some languages O is also the first character to East as well... So where I'm heading with this is NESW may not be the best convention to introduce direction to non-english speakers. So you may as well stick with known convention such as ABXY.
 
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For me it isn't so much that ABXY is better, just that it is what we are getting unless ED is open to change here.   If he is open to change, my opinion is to go with the most sensible option of marking what keypress is produced when pressing a button.

Neither ABXY or NESW is good on their own, but ABXY are widely used button labels for major consoles, and was present in the current form on previous handhelds.  NESW is not usually associated with gaming controls, and it doesn't work as well for non-English speakers.  If you have to choose one of the two, which is the better option, the new one that adds very little to the final product (and will only be used in a handful of games) or the one with history that is widely understood to represent gaming buttons?

I agree adding keyboard functions to the gaming buttons makes them look cluttered.  Kill ABXY, and just leave their keyboard markings.  It doesn't easily identify them as gaming buttons, but it adds much more than it takes away.  It does not detract from the actual experience of playing games as much as having mismatched ABXY markings and mappings, and NESW, or any other new markings, that are not currently used in any game, and those that will use it in the future are few.  At least keyboard functions will match up to mappings in games and emulators.

The superior alternative is to mark the buttons as what they actually are.  The reason to keep ABXY is because ED is the one making the call, and until he says otherwise it is best to assume he wants to keep them.

Edit: It seems TrashyMG beat me to some stuff.
 
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ABXY is not superior at all, the only reason to have those labels is backwards compatibility.

Home/End/PgUp/PgDn may not be æsthetically pleasing or "gaming-like", but it is an extremely functional way to convey the meaning of those buttons/keys (and how they will be called in any software that is not explicitly modified to call them something else), and that is the main goal of a label, isn't it?

Every other label suggestion would be nice to consider if we were in a "from scratch" scenario, but if "Pandora-compatibility" and "function above form" are two general principles that have to be respected, then ABXY + Home/End/PgUp/PgDn are needed, and there is not enough room for some extra label in addition to those two.
 
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