Action button labels

[Tenka]

My only problem is the same problem as your problem.  I have already been trained in the placements of A and B, and even X and Y, my first teacher was the Super Nintendo, and my second was the Nintendo 64.  I like the idea of the game buttons using special characters which really are unique to those buttons on the device, but if letters are the way to go I would still rather they have letters which aren't the SNES but wrong.  I don't agree with the idea behind the SNES but wrong, but I can't imagine ED using different letters on the Pyra's buttons if he's going to stick with letters at all.  I'm just putting down the idea in the first place, even though as jasay said my feelings are only personally sound.

 

[Neelix]

Just because ED is not likely to offer tech support over the phone doesn't mean that some poor sod somewhere isn't going to end up having to offer verbal support for it.

 
Exactly, and that will likely be in person. And in the case that it isn't, like I said, you can be more verbose.

People under instruction expect not to have to to use trial and error to understand and follow the instructions, and they are right to have such expectations.


Being more verbose when giving technical instruction over the phone however doesn't tend to make things clearer it actually tends to make them more confusing. (another thing I learned the hard way)

I've learned the hard way that you can be verbose as you like, there will always be someone who still doesn't get it. Yes, you can make people understand if you explain things well enough,  but why complicate things, when such a simple and obvious design decision as putting different labels on different buttons can make such communicatons so much easier?

 
And you think that telling someone over the phone to press a Greek character is somehow easier to understand? At least if you tell them to press A, you can be confident they've at least narrowed it down to 2 options instead of not even knowing what you are talking about.

No. In case you hadn't noticed I haven't been advocating a Greek letter solution for a while now. You already made your case on this subject and I agree. That's why I've been pushing for a multi-character Latin solution. Simple words or syllables or alphanumeric labels.

There is no tangible difference between buttons and keys! The difference is purely conceptual and you have to have learned the concept first before you can make use of it.  I know that people are capable of learning,  but this isn't about learning it's about communication,  and you can't just always assume that  the person you are communicating with already has the necessary education.

Who the hell will have a Pyra that has never used a keyboard before? That is a concept that everybody learns quite early nowadays.

It's not just a matter of having learned the concept of a keyboard, but to have learned the concept of differentiating keyboard keys from gaming buttons by calling one a key and the other a button. That does not come automatically with learning the concept of a keyboard.


I've been well familiar with keyboards for years, but If you had told me to press the A button for something when I first started out with the Pandora, and you didn't specifically say that you meant on the gaming keys I would probably have assumed you meant the A on the keyboard. What's more my response probably wouldn't have included any indication what I was doing wrong, rather just: "I pressed the A button but it didn't work, nothing happened" And since you thought you were being perfectly clear that you meant the gaming button when you said "Button" it probably wouldn't have occurred to you that I was actually pressing the A "key".


It took some time for me to get used to the concept of using the gaming buttons as a control mechanism distinct from the keyboard. I remember trying at least one game in the early days where I couldn't figure out how to make a menu selection and gave up thinking it didn't work, simply because it didn't occur to me that I would have to make the selection with the gaming buttons.


- Neelix

 

[milkshake]

Is there such things as gaming keys? Afaik all keyboard keys are called keyboard keys or for short keys even when playing pc games or amiga games or c64 games etc. I am only aware of the terms gaming buttons or action buttons or face buttons and they have never meant the keyboard keys.

Now I'm not saying there aren't peeps out there in the world that may get slightly confused at first but I don't think the numbers will be that large probably a small percentage. Also just by explaining the shape of the button (which is not a verbose explanation) the situation should resolve itself. I.e the round A button. You could also say it's above the keyboard on the right.

 

[Neelix]

You'd think so...   it doesn't always work that way though,  people can't always see what's directly in front of them,  and even apparently simple directions like that can be misunderstood.  You've no idea how frustrating it is to ask someone to press a button and tell them exactly where it is,  and have them answer that they can't see it. (and that's even with a well labelled button)

- Neelix

 

[_wb_]

Also you have to take into account that not everyone speaks English. Not all languages have distinct words for "key" and "button". I don't speak German very well but I think they call both of them "Taste". In Dutch we have the word "toets" for key and "knop" for button, but just like in English, a key is also a button so it's perfectly fine to say things like "Druk op de Enter-knop" ("Press the Enter button"). I don't know how it is in other languages but I suspect that in many languages it's possible to confuse buttons and keys.

After all, buttons and keys are essentially exactly the same thing: a switch you can push down to signal one bit of information and which automatically pops back up when you stop pressing it. The difference is no bigger than the difference between e.g. "car" and "sedan", or "pants" and "jeans".

 

[Ziz]

You can say "Knopf" in German too, but that is not used very often (anymore).

 

[SNESFAN]

Refer to it as gamepad a, gamepad x, etc etc.

nobody will confuse that

 

[Ziz]

IMO someone will always be confused.

• One is confused because of too much conditioning of other consoles
• One is confused because (s)he doesn't know the difference between key and button on the pandora
• One is confused because of greek letter names
• One is even confused, that (s)he shall press Ω and tries to press O or Q...

I don't think, that individual cases should be considered too much.With this attempt the efficacy of homeopathy is "proven": "But I know one case, where it worked quite good!"

I like the poll attempt.

 

[Kiga]

Also you have to take into account that not everyone speaks English. Not all languages have distinct words for "key" and "button".

Exactly, Pyra isn't an english console and for example in french there isn't two words for button.

 

[WizardStan]

in french there isn't two words for button.

Poussez le touche "X"Appuyez sur le bouton "X"

It should not be difficult to tell the difference in context.

 

[Klumpen]

This discussion is a waste of time, here's a dancing banana:

 

[Grench]

Sorry, but the argument, "Users are idiots so we should use Greek to not confuse them," does not fly.

Remember that scene toward the end in Trading Places where the two rich guys shout, "Turn those machines back on!!!!" Yeah, these continued arguments sound kind of like that.

 

[hipnotoad]

My god... did this argument happen for the Pandora button layout as well? How long will this go on?


When is ED going to step in and put an end to the dick measuring around here?

 

[_wb_]

Sorry, but the argument, "Users are idiots so we should use Greek to not confuse them," does not fly.

I agree, for any labeling there will be a sufficiently stupid idiot who somehow gets confused by it.

So we can just as well pick something that is aesthetically pleasing and original. Something like this:

 

[milkshake]

Omg Evildragon please come and put a stop to all this madness

 

[EvilDragon]

I want them to be labeled after famous politicians of the Zulu tribe.

 

[Kiga]

in french there isn't two words for button.

Poussez le touche "X"
Appuyez sur le bouton "X"


It should not be difficult to tell the difference in context.

Lol, doesn't work at all. They are used for action buttons and keyboard.

But anyway the fact is a label is made to differentiate button, so action button should have their own label.

 

[Neelix]

I want them to be labeled after famous politicians of the Zulu tribe.

    Would you put their names on the buttons, or just their faces?

- Neelix

 

[Kiga]

I want them to be labeled after famous politicians of the Zulu tribe.

Pure genius! I am happy that the designer of the Pyra is enough logic to change this senseless redondant labelling. But I suggest that we chose something which is elegant and related to Pyra like Greek letters, because they are geeky.

 

[Saber]

You'd think if someone paid over 500EUR for a device, they'd be able to tell the difference between face buttons and keyboard keys if a game properly documents the controls.

As someone suggested, we should go with Plan C and put Lucky Charms(Red Hearts, Orange Stars, Yellow Moons, Green Clovers, Blue Diamonds, and Purple Horse Shoes) on the game buttons. Add a candy coating for scratch resistance and something to nibble on and we've done our duty for this evolutionary marvel walking among us.