Action button labels

[SNESFAN]

How do I run this app?

Hit the chi button!

Crap which one is that!?!?

Yea, I vote no on that as well now.

 

[b_o_b]

I agree, sort of, I do think we should have colours, but I too think because of this reason we want it to look as far from a 'toy' as we can.


Using _wb_ style of characters, although I would prefer English ones myself....but that aside, I think the characters need to be very thin. Which would probably be ok for those using it for business too, as wouldn't be too blatant.


I'm thinking this kind of thickness of character:

I don't care at all what kind of characters are chosen, but I don't like coloured buttons. If the majority / Ed thinks it is needed then this is the first example of coloured keys I have seen I could live with.

 

[Neelix]

The problem is that their is no readily available discovery mechanism to learn what they represent (by the way, the same arguments holds for some of my proposals just the same).
You may not even know that they are greek letters and wouldn't know what to google.

That's easily fixable though.   Put together an info-graphic showing the names of the keys and put it in lots of easy to access areas, the quick Start guide,   a pinned topic with a title along the lines of "So what are the buttons called again?  (and other FAQs)",   the front page of the wiki,  it could even be worked into the default wallpaper.  Make it with appropriate blank spaces and it could be used for help screens and the like.

- Neelix

 

[God Ginrai]

That's easily fixable though.

That's not remotely true. A user should not have to learn how to describe the controls. They should just be able to do it. By making them something they have to learn to even talk about, you're putting an unnecessary burden on the user.

-God Ginrai

 

[Neelix]

Users have always had to learn about their devices. That's why there's such a thing as manuals and quick start guides in the first place.   The pandora itself has a fair learning curve to it. 

If you include the button names in all the "about your device" materials that will have to exist anyway  then, people who care about what the buttons are called will have the info readily available, and people who don't will be able to find it easily when they need it.

- Neelix

 

[God Ginrai]

Users have always had to learn about their devices. That's why there's such a thing as manuals and quick start guides in the first place.   The pandora itself has a fair learning curve to it.

Exactly, so now you're trying to take something that has always been a basic thing for the user to understand and overcomplicate it so that it now has to be added to the large laundry list that the Pandora had for the Pyra.

-God Ginrai

 

[SNESFAN]

Gotta agree with ya here. Forcing someone to research something to understand a basic function or terminology for a hardware control for no apparent reason other than style seems foolish. It doesn't effect how the device is used, its not a technical limitation, its not shoehorned technology to meet a need, its completely about style and preference. Why is the pyra called the pyra instead of pyyrhaha or whatever it was that was technically more correct but harder to pronounce or read? Because of that fluid line between style and usability that needs to be kept in check.

new vote, roman numerals... it's greek-ish

I, II, III, IV, V, VI

 

[Neelix]

Exactly, so now you're trying to take something that has always been a basic thing for the user to understand and overcomplicate it so that it now has to be added to the large laundry list that the Pandora had for the Pyra.

Fine, I concede the point.  We need symbols with well known names.  That being said I think we'll find it hard to get a consensus of what is well known enough, so we may have to settle on something that some people will still need to learn, so it makes sense to document it well in any case. 

new vote, roman numerals... it's greek-ish

That statement belongs in the absurdism corner

As for the roman numerals themselves they have the same problem as the dice faces, in that they are conceptually the same as the numbers 1-6.  

There's a logic puzzle game in the repo called Einstein that uses 3 different versions of the numbers 1-6 as individual symbols.  It took me some time before I could override my instinct to mentally label all three symbols for each number the same, (e.g. my instinct is to mentally map all of 6, VI and ⚅  simply as 'six') and this still sometimes gives me trouble.

Roman numerals have the additional problem that I and V individually are visually and nominally the same as I and V on the keyboard.

- Neelix

 

[Tenka]

In the case of the dice faces I wouldn't say that that's still a problem.  D1 is just as easy to type and say as 1, so is B1, whatever.  Dice faces don't seem to prefer any particular language or culture, and as precisely simple as they are they're still noticeably symbolic of gaming, which differentiates them from the other keys even more.

And yeah, none of us seem to have any special new ideas for what to call the shoulder buttons.  I don't think they'd need labels.

 

[_wb_]

Why? What is your proposal?

Stick to the original Pandora lettering scheme to keep consistency.. if a 6 button layout comes to be, keep with the original Pandora scheme and choose two other letters for the other buttons and call it a day. I heard C and Z are popular.

So your proposal is this:

    C

  Y   Z

A  B

  X

I think that looks like a complete mess.

 

[Tenka]

I concur.  The lettering scheme the Pandora uses was not decided on with even more buttons in mind, just as the second amendment to the USA's constitution was not decided on with much killier guns in mind.

 

[ShleeDragon]

I agree, sort of, I do think we should have colours, but I too think because of this reason we want it to look as far from a 'toy' as we can.


Using _wb_ style of characters, although I would prefer English ones myself....but that aside, I think the characters need to be very thin. Which would probably be ok for those using it for business too, as wouldn't be too blatant.


I'm thinking this kind of thickness of character:

I don't care at all what kind of characters are chosen, but I don't like coloured buttons. If the majority / Ed thinks it is needed then this is the first example of coloured keys I have seen I could live with.

OMG IT'S THE PYRA HOMESTUCK EDITION!

 

[_wb_]

There are four scenarios in which people refer to a button that we have to take into account:

1. Written (e.g. on-screen) by someone (e.g. a dev) who wants to spend the effort to type "Ω".

2. Written by someone who has no time / does not want to spend the effort to type special characters, so they spell it out in some way (e.g. red O button, OMEGA, CIRCLE).

3. Spoken by someone who knows the name of the symbol ("omega").

4. Spoken by someone who does not know the name and does not want to learn it ("that red button that looks a bit like a circle").

I'll admit that colored Greek letters are somewhat inconvenient when severely color-blind people (who don't want to learn) are speaking about the buttons. I say to them: just point your finger at the button and say "this button".

Also, I think this time the buttons have to be labeled (in a small font, maybe on the case) with their non-gaming name (Home/End/PgUp/PgDn/.../...). So you can always refer to the buttons by that if all else fails.

In my opinion the labels are not that important, and we should just pick something that looks good. Just using ABCXYZ and distinguishing "keys" from "buttons" is problematic though (see http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/15736-action-button-labels/page-19#entry320307).

 

[milkshake]

What is the obsession with needing to find symbols for the game buttons?


It is just not needed we have an existing scheme that will already fit nicely.


How about:


Y


A B


X


C1


C2

 

[bzar]

_wb_: Good distinction between the cases, but I think the receiver should be taken into account as well. The information source, receiver and communication medium all have properties to be taken into account. For example, "that button" only works if your communication medium supports physical pointing, and a knowledgeable source saying "omega" only works if the receiver knows what that is

EDIT: s/transfer medium/communication medium/g

 

[Tenka]

Milkshake: Please see posts #410 and #411 again for your answers.

 

[milkshake]

@Tenka I did the realise that 2 people's opinions of it looking a "complete mess" was the defecto answer?

What I'm saying is we could Copy the n64 slightly and have a couple of C buttons either the first one on each row or the last one on each row.

I think that is would look good.

And I personally think that the Greek symbols look a mess.

It's not like I don't understand why you might think symbols are a good idea at first, but it's glaringly obvious anything other than standard gaming buttons with standard gaming button letters is just asking for a whole world of hurt.

 

[bzar]

It's not like I don't understand why you might think symbols are a good idea at first, but it's glaringly obvious anything other than standard gaming buttons with standard gaming button letters is just asking for a whole world of hurt.

standard?

 

[milkshake]

You know like bog standard, I maybe should have used the term "commonly associated" instead

 

[milkshake]

And also I wasnt specifically taking about the location of the commonly used gaming buttons just that those were pretty Standard (common) buttons used so far in the history of gaming ie. A, B, X, Y and C