milkshake
Advanced Member
I don't mind the final layout (that's seperate issue for me) as long as we stick to common gaming button labels.
Action button labels
- Thread starter _wb_
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iprice
Certified Guru
I have never expressed a STRONG ( or any) opinion on using Latin letters. If you recall I actually suggested mathematical symbols, which are universal and don't have buttons of their own on the keyboard (for the most part). I just don't get why you are so pro Greek letters.
Because they look good, they are between A,B,Y,X and △,□,◯, X
And because they match with Pyra, they aren't out of nowhere, Greek letters are used in math/physique so it match with Pyra's geek identity and Pyra was named after a Greek mythologie figure.
I'm not specifically pro Greek. I'm open to other suggestions.
I don't really like symbols that are too "specialized", like playing card suits, chess pieces, music notes, etc. They give a false impression that the device is not universal but is specifically designed to play card games / chess / music composition. Mathematical symbols may also somewhat suffer from that, and additionally I think that it would be confusing in mathematical software, because most likely those keys would not produce the corresponding symbols, but just map to Home/End/PgUp/PgDn like in any other desktop application.
I prefer symbols that are relatively simple and well-known -- but nothing that collides with the keyboard, so no ASCII symbols. I think Greek letters are a good candidate since they are relatively widely used (e.g. in science) and they look good. The resemblance to PlayStation controls and the reference to the Pyra name and the location of the case producer are a nice "bonus".
milkshake
Advanced Member
They really don't look good! and we shouldn't be labelling buttons to some theme that you have in your head.
Thats the only reason I can think of to use Greek Symbols because of the theme.. but the device
Lets not cloud that just to squeeze in a confusing theme that means you will have to explain even more to the user what they need to press.
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They look better than latin letters, if you think the contrary...well I will say that everyone have his own taste.
As I said I'm not a Greece fan, I don't care about the theme, all I want is consistency. Latin letters is a nonsense since they are used. Just find something else than latin letters which isn't too connoted like cards symbols etc, and it will be fine.
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I see your point about business use, but we can't really hide that it has game controls (the dpad and nubs kind of give it away), and I'm a bit worried about the readability of thin letters. I like the look of bold letters.I agree, sort of, I do think we should have colours, but I too think because of this reason we want it to look as far from a 'toy' as we can.
Using _wb_ style of characters, although I would prefer English ones myself....but that aside, I think the characters need to be very thin. Which would probably be ok for those using it for business too, as wouldn't be too blatant.
I'm thinking this kind of thickness of character:
What about something like this:
iprice
Certified Guru
In your opinion. But as you say everyone has their own taste. That doesn't mean that people dislike them either, just means that they may not want to see them on the Pyra or that the names are beyond recall to them
Fzero
Advanced Member
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Personally, thick bold look toy, less classy.
Readability I wouldn't see as an issue, the buttons would soon become second nature and very familiar... Like on PlayStation for example, I know triangle is the top button without looking now, I learned the setup within a matter of minutes.
If you do need to look to confirm however, so long as it is readable it's fine.
End of the day I personally wouldn't be offended with thick bold symbols like you've shown, but think that it looks a touch more classy when thinner and less in your face
Readability I wouldn't see as an issue, the buttons would soon become second nature and very familiar... Like on PlayStation for example, I know triangle is the top button without looking now, I learned the setup within a matter of minutes.
If you do need to look to confirm however, so long as it is readable it's fine.
End of the day I personally wouldn't be offended with thick bold symbols like you've shown, but think that it looks a touch more classy when thinner and less in your face
Granitehead
Advanced Member
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What about a lower case phi? That's widely used for angles and such, so may be better known, and it looks differ more from Omega.
Fzero
Advanced Member
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I've not heard of phi...nor can I match any symbol to the word.
I've heard of Omega, Alpha, but couldn't draw their symbols without checking.
I'm going to need to learn Greek chars eh
I vote English letters or numbers still
Is Greek spoke anywhere outside of Greece
I've heard of Omega, Alpha, but couldn't draw their symbols without checking.
I'm going to need to learn Greek chars eh
I vote English letters or numbers still
Is Greek spoke anywhere outside of Greece
Neelix
Insecticidal Maniac
Clear to you perhaps, but only because this is a convention you know and accept. The reality is that all the keys are buttons, and there is no reason why someone new to the scene would make that association.
- Neelix
EDIT: As an experiment, I showed Mum the pandora, pointed out the two A's and asked which she would press if I told her to press the A button. Mum may not be a tech head but she knows her way around a computer.
She pointed to the one in the keyboard section.
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Fzero
Advanced Member
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I agree with milkshake here on this...
If you told to press [A] and you then press the 'key'...
...Nothing happens, so what you going to do? Surely try the 'btn' with the [A] on it.
Once made that mistake once, not likely to happen again.
Plus, if you playing a game, for example a shmup, and you're told:
"press [A] to fire"
Surely most people are going to first try the btn rather than key, I would assume that the game uses the game controls
If you told to press [A] and you then press the 'key'...
...Nothing happens, so what you going to do? Surely try the 'btn' with the [A] on it.
Once made that mistake once, not likely to happen again.
Plus, if you playing a game, for example a shmup, and you're told:
"press [A] to fire"
Surely most people are going to first try the btn rather than key, I would assume that the game uses the game controls
SNESFAN
Retro game fanatic
may I ask why? I've seen the two used interchangeably in pop culture. I can remember a certain children's Disney movie based off greek mythology that I'm almost certain had roman numerals in it because it's commonly understood whereas greek numerals are not.That statement belongs in the absurdism corner
If you look hard enough you'll see lots of these types of mistakes, but I think it falls under the catagory of "close enough".
Also what exactly is a "pyra"?
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You can check e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phi if you don't know how the letters look.I've not heard of phi...nor can I match any symbol to the word.
I've heard of Omega, Alpha, but couldn't draw their symbols without checking.
I'm going to need to learn Greek chars eh
I vote English letters or numbers still
Is Greek spoke anywhere outside of Greece
As far as I know (modern) Greek is not spoken outside of Greece, but (ancient) Greek is still relatively widely taught in schools all over the world.
Greek letters (not the language, just the letters) are commonly used in many sciences.
Lower case phi (φ) looks a bit like psi (ψ) though, so I prefer the upper case one (Φ).
I wouldn't mind replacing the phi with a capital Xi (Ξ), Theta (Θ), or Sigma (Σ).
slaeshjag
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Roman numerals were used in the Roman empire, which used the Latin alphabet, not the greek one. You might as well just say "let's use cyrillic symbols, Bulgaria uses them, and it's pretty close to Greece."
Neelix
Insecticidal Maniac
But then you have to go through the same process again with every new program, and then you have to remember which A each program is likely to be referring to, or go though the process again. It shouldn't be a matter of trial and error! If told press A I shouldn't have to guess which A button because there should be only one of each button on the device.
So because Disney gets it wrong it's close enough? You go tell a Roman he's kind of Greek and you tell me what he says.
may I ask why? I've seen the two used interchangeably in pop culture. I can remember a certain children's Disney movie based off greek mythology that I'm almost certain had roman numerals in it because it's commonly understood whereas greek numerals are not.That statement belongs in the absurdism corner
If you look hard enough you'll see lots of these types of mistakes, but I think it falls under the catagory of "close enough".
- Neelix
SNESFAN
Retro game fanatic
ok, so what's a "pyra"?
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Neelix
Insecticidal Maniac
In this context I would say it's the successor to the Pandora, though I have no idea why you think that question is in any way relevant to the discussion.
- Neelix
- Neelix
Roman numerals are a valid proposal -- nothing says that the buttons have to fit the "Greek" theme.
But I think Roman numerals suck. They're the worst way to count, even worse than unary notation (dice). I and V are also letters, so it does not really solve anything either.
But I think Roman numerals suck. They're the worst way to count, even worse than unary notation (dice). I and V are also letters, so it does not really solve anything either.
Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrha if you want to learn about the origin of the name for the Pandora successor. I don't see what it has to do with this thread though.
