Action button labels

[_wb_]

Also PNDManager is not the only program that uses Christoph.Krn's guihints. E.g. Pandora Image Viewer:

and Microbes:

also use his guihints.

 

[Klumpen]

Ah yes, I forgot that although I played Pandora Microbes a lot and will again this night after work and rehearsal if I do not fall asleep immediately. ^^

Again, the software side is the more important one.

 

[_jr_]

How would these guihints extend to 6 Buttons?

But besides that, this is another strong argument IMO to not care too much about representability using single ASCII characters, because that is already a suboptimal method right now.

Colors combined with new symbols (like the various proposals of non-latin characters or non-arabic numerals around) seem fine to me, giving two independent ways to easily and quickly identify every button. And representation with ASCII characters in constrained engines would still be reasonably possible (though of course not perfect).

 

[Saber]

Believe however much you want in the inconsistencies you've derived from my words if it brings you comfort.

 
Screw comfort, you tell me how this can be read any way other than "If we move the nubs in we can fit it":

If the nubs could be migrated inward a skosh along with the B and A buttons below, we could fit the small N64 "c" cross buttons. I'm all for it guys.

I have explained how we could do it and why some ways we can't in four(1, 2, 3, 4) realistic variations in this thread, but the inevitability I fear with what else I've seen is there won't be six face buttons on the Pyra, but let's wait and see how it turns out shall we.

You have not pointed out any reason why my version would not work, aside from a comment that moving the nubs may make them harder to use and that you might press buttons with your palm by accident. I have addressed the palm comment and the nubs, and even explained the palm comment since it seemed that my answer to that had been somewhat unclear. You have not responded with any objections to that since, so to take an opposing stance pages later while still not explaining why and accusing me of finding inconsistencies to comfort myself is honestly quite rude.

-God Ginrai

:lol:

You must be fun at parties.

 

[Saber]

I took a snapshot of the board from ED's youtube video.

Like it or not we are resigned to this much space for extra buttons. I did my best for you guys but I'm happy living with four of them though.

Good luck to whoever does come up with the solution everyone is satisfied with(and Openpandora actually uses it).   

 

[Natsu]

He already said that it's going to be a bit wider.


Also, please stop with the Greek buttons. Just please stop.  <_<

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

I took a snapshot of the board from ED's youtube video.

Like it or not we are resigned to this much space for extra buttons. I did my best for you guys but I'm happy living with four of them though.

Good luck to whoever does come up with the solution everyone is satisfied with(and Openpandora actually uses it).   

This is not the final board I hope you know this

 

[Saber]

I took a snapshot of the board from ED's youtube video.

Like it or not we are resigned to this much space for extra buttons. I did my best for you guys but I'm happy living with four of them though.

Good luck to whoever does come up with the solution everyone is satisfied with(and Openpandora actually uses it).   

This is not the final board I hope you know this

I didn't think it was a production board yes. Physical dimensions thought were set in stone though. Have to spend more time on the internet I guess.

Happen to have a link to where he said this isn't the final physical design and/or that he is going to for a fact widen the Pyra? I thought he said it will probably be about the same dimensions mostly. Love to read ED's post on it if you don't mind. 

 

[Kiga]

I don't want to have thumbnail buttons just to have 2 more useless button. Come on guys be serious, you just have to use the nearest keyboard's button, they are as close as action buttons :lol:

 

[Saber]

^ Everyone here takes this serious button business seriously.

 

[Rockthesmurf]

Let's just go with what Das Keyboard does:

Then we don't have to argue any more about what to print on the keys, and what keyboard layout to use.

 

[Caine]

Let's just go with what Das Keyboard does:

<cut>

Then we don't have to argue any more about what to print on the keys, and what keyboard layout to use.

I could never use Das Keyboard, I dislike the cherry switches. Only buckling springs will do!

 

[bzar]

Also, please stop with the Greek buttons. Just please stop.  <_<

Why? Because you disagree? I for one like the idea. Gives the device some more character
Sure there are arguments for and against, as for any proposed layout. After considering it a while, I think pretty much all of the potential issues or gains are pretty miniscule and the labels don't matter that much in any practical sense. So it's mainly an aesthetic thing to me, and I like greek letters

I'd rather the device had its own personality than try to mimic how others have done stuff. For anything that actually matters for practical purposes (like having SOME unique way of referring to the buttons vs. not) going with what has been found working is of course sensible. I don't consider WHAT the buttons are labeled one of those cases.

 

[God Ginrai]

All of those (1-6, D1-D6, B1-B6, A1-A3/B1-B3) look cheap and generic to me. I prefer to have button labels that can have semantic connotations.

 Well, the D1-D6 and B1-B6 were merely ways to refer to the Dice buttons. I have no idea why A1-A3/B1-B3 was suggested.

For fighter games the labels are not that important, what matters most for those is the positioning of the buttons (2 rows of 3 buttons).

For other kinds of games like RPGs or strategy games, it is nice if you can associate button labels semantically. E.g. if the game needs buttons for YES/CONFIRM, NO/ABORT, and MENU/INVENTORY, it's nice if you can use buttons with labels like ◯  X  □  for that and not labels like B1 B2 B3.

 I honestly don't think this matters as much as you think. As long as you can correctly indicate the button, the player will use it.

The playing card symbols are nice, but don't they don't extend well to 6 buttons.

Actually, they extend perfectly to 6 buttons. The extra 2 buttons are red and black, which can easily be denoted in games with either the name of the color, or images like a circle that are the same color. (Think of Bomberman 64, it used blue and green icons to indicate use of the A and B buttons on the N64 controller)

    (R)
  ♣   (
♦   ♥
  ♠

-God Ginrai

 

[Natsu]

Not ideal for me, but it works. Although, I was thinking Red and Blue.

 

[Granitehead]

Actually, they extend perfectly to 6 buttons. The extra 2 buttons are red and black.


(R)
♣ (
♦ ♥
♠
-God Ginrai

Actually they don't. They extend perfectly to 16 (symbol - color combinations), not 6. And color blind people again.
Playing cards have no connection with the Pyra. They make it look like a toy, strange.

Greek on the other hand has that connection and makes the Pyra more interesting, gives it character.

Besides Greek letters, I've seen no good suggestion which differs from traditional choices.

So I say: Either Greek letters, or choose some of the traditional symbols. We could also extend the Playstation symbols. What about point/circle, line, triangle, square, pentagon, hexagon? That would be a more or less mathematically logical sequence (one corner to six corners).

 

[Natsu]

Playing cards have no connection with the Pyra. They make it look like a toy, strange.

It represents gambling and this whole project is a gamble. :lol:

So I say: Either Greek letters, or choose some of the traditional symbols. We could also extend the Playstation symbols. What about point/circle, line, triangle, square, pentagon, hexagon? That would be a more or less mathematically logical sequence (one corner to six corners).

And dice.

 

[WizardStan]

And color blind people again.

Colour blindness that has difficulty distinguishing between red and black? I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist.

 

[God Ginrai]

And color blind people again.

I'm calling bullshit on this. I have a lot of color-blind friends, all with different kinds of color-blindness, and all of them can distinguish between red and black. Not only that, even if someone could not distinguish between red and black, that's easily remedied by using R and B on the buttons. And before _wb_ comes in and suggests Neelix's ambiguity problem, we can label them R and B so that when referenced by the characters rather than as "red" and "black", they aren't confused with R and B on the keyboard.

Playing cards have no connection with the Pyra. They make it look like a toy, strange.

Card games are a form of gaming. I also pointed out in the other topic that there is actually a method of classifying personalities in online video games that specifically classifies them into one of the 4 suits.

Greek on the other hand has that connection and makes the Pyra more interesting, gives it character.

The only connection greek letters have is the name of the device. That's just as vague a connection as Suits have.

-God Ginrai

 

[fusion_power]

I'm 90% sure that ED will choose ordinary alphabetical letters for the Action Button labeling at the end, which is completely fine. There is a 10% Chance that he chooses symbols but I'm 100% sure there that these will in no way playing card symbols.