Action button labels

[_wb_]

Now, I do know that I recently said that I do not take this thread seriously, and I sure as hell don't (this is the worst case of bikeshedding I've seen, I think), but here I do say No. Nononono. We are not making a N64-machine, we're making a general machine. That up there makes PSX, SNES, and just about anything else with more than two active buttons suffer. Don't.

I see no need to move the buttons from a cross.

Hey, I unequivocally agree with both of you. Just throwing ideas out my window is all.

If the nubs could be migrated inward a skosh along with the B and A buttons below, we could fit the small N64 "c" cross buttons. I'm all for it guys.

Back to something like this then:

The cross buttons have to correspond to the Pandora's ABXY / Home-End-PgDn-PgUp.

I don't care where the extra two buttons are put. It would be weird if the original 4 buttons become smaller though and the extra 2 buttons are the big ones. I prefer all buttons to be the same size.

I don't think we should try to imitate the N64 layout perfectly - as long as there are 6 buttons in roughly the right shape, it will be OK for N64 emulation.

 

[God Ginrai]

My Greek letter suggestion is using shapes that are quite similar to those basic shapes that everyone knows the names of.

 Similar, but not close enough. I could see people calling Chi and Delta X and triangle, but most people would not call Pi and Omega Square and Circle.

How often do non-devs need to explicitly mention button names anyway? When you are talking about a game, don't you rather use game-specific words like "the jump button" or "the fire button" anyway? Or just "I jumped and fired", instead of "I pressed the A button and then the X button".

 Wouldn't devs actually be more likely to refer to buttons by their actions, since they normally code the functionality first and tie it to a physical button later? My friends and I rarely ever use the terms "jump button" and "fire button" and speak about the games we play based on the button. "How do I melee?" "Press X". "How'd you do that jumping spindash?" "Press B-over to spindash and then press X to jump". We will speak in actions, (ie: "Jump over that ledge" or "Melee") but whenever we talk about the buttons, we always speak about the buttons based on their labels. It makes more sense to do it that way, anyway. For any given game, the fire button could be different. If I need them to know where the button they are supposed to press is, they won't know it's the B button unless I tell them it's the B button.

Hey, I unequivocally agree with both of you. Just throwing ideas out my window is all.

If the nubs could be migrated inward a skosh along with the B and A buttons below, we could fit the small N64 "c" cross buttons. I'm all for it guys.

Back to something like this then:

 I still think this is inferior to the layout I showed you before:

Pyra
__________________________________________________________
/ \
| |
| +++++++++ WiFi 3/4G Power Br- Br+ +++++++++ |
| +++++++++ +++++++++ |
| |
| ^ Start |
| (Z) |
| (Y) |
| < > (Nub1) Select (Nub2) (C) |
| (X) ( |
| |
| v Menu (A) |
| |
| |
| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 Back |
| |
| Tab q w e r t y u i o p Ent |
| |
| Shift a s d f g h j k l Shift |
| |
| , . z x c v b n m Spacebar Fn |
| |
\__________________________________________________________/

By the way, do you write out "God Ginrai" at the end of every single post you make manually or does the forum add it for you? Curious is all.

Remember, as Moxie said, we are not making an N64 machine. Yours works great for N64, but is not as good for other 6-button systems, whereas mine is acceptable for N64 and perfect for other 6-button systems. I agree with both of _wb_'s points about your layout that I've quoted below:

I don't care where the extra two buttons are put. It would be weird if the original 4 buttons become smaller though and the extra 2 buttons are the big ones. I prefer all buttons to be the same size.

I don't think we should try to imitate the N64 layout perfectly - as long as there are 6 buttons in roughly the right shape, it will be OK for N64 emulation.

-God Ginrai

 

[Saber]

I think once the Pyra is released, people will forget mostly which keys on the Pandora's action buttons did what. I know, if I own both systems, the new one will be on my person and the old one will be home adding to it's collectibility.

For the record, I also prefer all buttons to be the same size. I did illustrate in the first post of the Keyboard Layout topic how to do this while increasing the number of buttons to six, but feedback wasn't forthcoming and everyone seemed noncommittal except that everybody wanted the Sega Genesis layout and there were pages upon pages in there and the 6 button layout thread of why they love it and how impractical ways could bring this to fruition(like adding width to the case).

I also don't agree moving both nubs toward the center of the console is the best option. Yes, it gives us more room to work with, but it takes away from using the nubs properly.

We all sound like broken records at this point. <_<

 

[God Ginrai]

For the record, I also prefer all buttons to be the same size. I did illustrate in the first post of the Keyboard Layout topic how to do this while increasing the number of buttons to six, but feedback wasn't forthcoming and everyone seemed noncommittal except that everybody wanted the Sega Genesis layout and there were pages upon pages in there and the 6 button layout thread of why they love it and how impractical ways could bring this to fruition(like adding width to the case).

Honestly, adding width to the case is not impractical, since it doesn't effect pocketability, but I've pointed out that we can do it without increasing the case, so the point is moot.

I also don't agree moving both nubs toward the center of the console is the best option. Yes, it gives us more room to work with, but it takes away from using the nubs properly.

You're contradicting yourself:

If the nubs could be migrated inward a skosh along with the B and A buttons below, we could fit the small N64 "c" cross buttons. I'm all for it guys.

And also, I don't believe that moving it by a small amount takes away from the use of the nubs. Not to mention, in your previous post, you mentioned getting rid of the ring around the nubs to gain room. This would also be possible to gain room for the Saturn layout that I presented to fit while moving the nubs in less, if at all.

-God Ginrai

 

[Caine]

For the record, I also prefer all buttons to be the same size. I did illustrate in the first post of the Keyboard Layout topic how to do this while increasing the number of buttons to six, but feedback wasn't forthcoming

I'm not 100% sure it was yours, but I loved the somewhat V shaped keyboard layout with the nubs moved slightly downwards to make space. It was a good idea in my opinion.
As for the labelling of the action buttons, in the end I never look at them. And many people won't.

I just map the logical button of the game/emulator to the physical button on the pyra.

So actually, I don't really care all that much about the outcome.

 

[comradekingu]

ᚹ - ᛠ  - ᚱ - ᛅ

P     Y    R      A

 

[bzar]

I agree that Greek letters are a bit more complicated than Latin ASCII characters, but at least they exist in Unicode. Try typing the PlayStation button labels!

□ ○ △ Ⅹ

 

[Caine]

ᚹ - ᛠ  - ᚱ - ᛅ

P     Y    R      A

Hmmm, my Runic is a bit rusty, but I would have written it more like ᚹ ᚥ ᚱ ᚨ.
Isn't ᚹ - ᛠ - ᚱ - ᛅ something like pearn? Nope, I am mixing up the n and ae. I think it spells pearae.

 

[_wb_]

I agree that Greek letters are a bit more complicated than Latin ASCII characters, but at least they exist in Unicode. Try typing the PlayStation button labels!

□ ○ △ Ⅹ

I also found those shapes in Unicode, but you have to tinker with the font sizes and alignment to get that to look decent.

 

[bzar]

Only the X one. The rest are actually like that from the start.

 

[Caine]

Since we're only being half serious anyway, a gaming oriented theme:

      ♔ 

   ♗   ♕
♙   ♘
   ♖

 

[moxie]

ᚹ - ᛠ  - ᚱ - ᛅ


P     Y    R      A

Hmmm, my Runic is a bit rusty, but I would have written it more like ᚹ ᚥ ᚱ ᚨ.

Isn't ᚹ - ᛠ - ᚱ - ᛅ something like pearn? Nope, I am mixing up the n and ae. I think it spells pearae.

The Nordic runes and the Anglosaxon runes differ, though

 

[comradekingu]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalecarlian_runes

I like the other P, but cant find the utf-8 for it, also, if it starts with ᚹ its easy to tell its "pyra"

erild[e"rild]-n (-em)-er  eldstad
(ordet lyder i älvd. eril o. kan ha den angivna betydelsen;
det extra d:et kan vara tillagt i anslutning till
jäld ’eld’ och/eller efter mönster av många
andra ord på
-ld).(Ö:Erildnb.f.)

http://www.larssteensland.se/Grasprak.pdf

Fireplace.

ᛆ ᚱ ᛁ ᛚ ᚦ ᚿ

             [ᛁ]  

        [ᚱ]      [ᛚ]

   [ᛆ]      [ᚦ]

       [ ᚿ]

The R can also be turning to the left, but i dont know how to do that in unicode.

 

[slaeshjag]

That's just silly.

 

[Saber]

For the record, I also prefer all buttons to be the same size. I did illustrate in the first post of the Keyboard Layout topic how to do this while increasing the number of buttons to six, but feedback wasn't forthcoming and everyone seemed noncommittal except that everybody wanted the Sega Genesis layout and there were pages upon pages in there and the 6 button layout thread of why they love it and how impractical ways could bring this to fruition(like adding width to the case).

Honestly, adding width to the case is not impractical, since it doesn't effect pocketability, but I've pointed out that we can do it without increasing the case, so the point is moot.

I also don't agree moving both nubs toward the center of the console is the best option. Yes, it gives us more room to work with, but it takes away from using the nubs properly.

You're contradicting yourself:

If the nubs could be migrated inward a skosh along with the B and A buttons below, we could fit the small N64 "c" cross buttons. I'm all for it guys.

And also, I don't believe that moving it by a small amount takes away from the use of the nubs. Not to mention, in your previous post, you mentioned getting rid of the ring around the nubs to gain room. This would also be possible to gain room for the Saturn layout that I presented to fit while moving the nubs in less, if at all.

-God Ginrai

Believe however much you want in the inconsistencies you've derived from my words if it brings you comfort.

I have explained how we could do it and why some ways we can't in four(1, 2, 3, 4) realistic variations in this thread, but the inevitability I fear with what else I've seen is there won't be six face buttons on the Pyra, but let's wait and see how it turns out shall we.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

 

[God Ginrai]

Believe however much you want in the inconsistencies you've derived from my words if it brings you comfort.

 Screw comfort, you tell me how this can be read any way other than "If we move the nubs in we can fit it":

If the nubs could be migrated inward a skosh along with the B and A buttons below, we could fit the small N64 "c" cross buttons. I'm all for it guys.

I have explained how we could do it and why some ways we can't in four(1, 2, 3, 4) realistic variations in this thread, but the inevitability I fear with what else I've seen is there won't be six face buttons on the Pyra, but let's wait and see how it turns out shall we.

You have not pointed out any reason why my version would not work, aside from a comment that moving the nubs may make them harder to use and that you might press buttons with your palm by accident. I have addressed the palm comment and the nubs, and even explained the palm comment since it seemed that my answer to that had been somewhat unclear. You have not responded with any objections to that since, so to take an opposing stance pages later while still not explaining why and accusing me of finding inconsistencies to comfort myself is honestly quite rude.

-God Ginrai

 

[Klumpen]

My favourites

     N    X1

W       E   X2

     S

    5    6

4      2   3

    1

Now you're getting somewhere.

 

[God Ginrai]

Now you're getting somewhere.

Except the bottom row should be 1 2 3 and the top row should be 4 5 6. 1, 2, 3, and 4 forming a diamond and then 5 and 6 off to the side has no logical progression and just doesn't make sense.

-God Ginrai

 

[moxie]

Eeehhh...1 3 5 and 2 4 6 seems to be very logical progressions to me?