The current situation

[vcoleiro1]

One thing is for sure. When the Book and Mini Series is finally released about the whole Pandora saga, it will be a best seller.


You couldn't make this shit up.


People will be saying. Hey , have you seen that doco called Pirates of Silcon Valley or Micro Men . Response, Mehh , check out "The Pandora Story" doco , It's awesome.


I sincerely hope someone is documenting this saga for the book and mini series

 

[kasp]

One thing is for sure. When the Book and Mini Series is finally released about the whole Pandora saga, it will be a best seller.


You couldn't make this shit up.


People will be saying. Hey , have you seen that doco called Pirates of Silcon Valley or Micro Men . Response, Mehh , check out "The Pandora Story" doco , It's awesome.


I sincerely hope someone is documenting this saga for the book and mini series

You know most people will buy it thinking it's about avatar

 

[Fzero]

I enjoyed that zero wing comment return, it's one of the best lines ever I think.


I still say it sometimes "for greeeat justiiice'.


I thought Torpor's comment was also a valid point and didn't see it as malicious or anything, just a point that KS pledgers who do not follow the boards and know about the problems caused by CC etc, _might_ get the wrong end of the stick and that could have impact on the iCP2 KS ...I hadn't considered that until mentioned but I'd probably agree it would be a wise move, as people not following these boards but pledging to the KS will likely find out of the delays of original Pandora pre-orderers... Which might result in some pledges taken back. I think this is all and nothing more that was meant by the comment eh?


Whatever though, you guys obviously got history and stuff what's happened behind the scene blah blah


I just hope you all sort it out and continue to do your good work for the platform.


I'm happy to get my original Pandora whenever it comes from Craig, and will keep my pledge to iCP2


United we stand, and all of that...


Now I'm going to continue enjoying my holiday and take a stroll up the pier


One

 

[elwing]

I thought Torpor's comment was also a valid point and didn't see it as malicious or anything, just a point that KS pledgers who do not follow the boards and know about the problems caused by CC etc, _might_ get the wrong end of the stick and that could have impact on the iCP2 KS ...I hadn't considered that until mentioned but I'd probably agree it would be a wise move, as people not following these boards but pledging to the KS will likely find out of the delays of original Pandora pre-orderers... Which might result in some pledges taken back. I think this is all and nothing more that was meant by the comment eh?

It's a valid point and it's probably the exact reason why you need to dig in the project owner profile to find out it's the same guys behind this and the pandora... while many people outside theses boards are aware about the pandora and it's debacle most probably have no idea they deal with the same people...

 

[Fzero]

And more importantly, those people probably wouldn't know that the debacle was NOT the fault of OPT, which we all know and understand, we know of the problem caused by CC so we are happy to wait patiently and continue to support OPT.


This is how I read Torper's comment and why I thought also it might be a good idea to explain this on the KS for these people... So if/when they find out about said debacle, they can be in a knowhow like us and understand it's not likely to happen again, with iCP2, with their money.


I read earlier Craig doesn't feel a need to mention it though so thats his prerogative.


Hopefully it [debacle] won't even raise it's ugly head in the iCP2 KS realm but wouldn't be surprised if it did thats all

 

[EvilDragon]

So instead of addressing better solutions to the problem the boards concentrate on what caused the problem. But a really good excuse is just that. An excuse. Above someone posted 6 points on making the experience better yet few are interested. It is this disinterest, the constant suggestion to cancel, the reactive instead of the preactive or proactive board behavior and the sucks to be you mentality that is the reason why people are canceling in droves. Ed and Craigx have frankly too much on their plate.

Well, the only quotes you had there which affect my shop or me was the one from www.dragonbox.de (Where is my Pandora???) where the issue was not a missing shipment or refund, but simply a missing tracking eMail from DHL.


While I've got a huge email backlog, I check them regularly for any urgent stuff, so I usually refund right away.


All the other quotes were from Craigs customers, not mine. While we work together on the Pandora, our companies, eMails and shops don't have anything to do with each other.

 

[JackTheKnife]

But we have managed to clear about 1000 more orders, would you rather we went bankrupt this time last year, blamed CircuitCo and just wandered off?

As if not declaring bankruptcy precludes you from any of the proactive actions I listed to earnestly show you have the original preorders best interest at heart. I could just as easily ask would you rather we all ask for a refund right now? Well guess what? Some of us CAN'T get a refund.

Why not?

 

[Fzero]

I think, some people cannot get a refund easily as refunds have to go back to the original card ordered against.. Some people no longer have that card, changed banks or whatever, so applying the refund is a bit awkward.


Requesting refunds will make the situation worse, and was the sudden surge of refund requests which caused a bit of a problem for Craig's order line anyway as he had to give that money back, which was money that could've gone on getting upgrade orderers Pandoras out there.


It's best if people don't cancel orders and wait for Craig and Ed to sort their plan out and eventually we all get our Pandora.


That's how I understand things at moment

 

[ShleeDragon]

yep. ED can make them. Craig wants to sell them. the problem is cashflow. Keep the money in the system..


Running on the bank is never a good idea.

 

[kasp]

And more importantly, those people probably wouldn't know that the debacle was NOT the fault of OPT, which we all know and understand, we know of the problem caused by CC so we are happy to wait patiently and continue to support OPT.


This is how I read Torper's comment and why I thought also it might be a good idea to explain this on the KS for these people... So if/when they find out about said debacle, they can be in a knowhow like us and understand it's not likely to happen again, with iCP2, with their money.


I read earlier Craig doesn't feel a need to mention it though so thats his prerogative.


Hopefully it [debacle] won't even raise it's ugly head in the iCP2 KS realm but wouldn't be surprised if it did thats all

I don't think they should mention it at all on the kick starter page. All it will do is scare people away, it is a separate company from Pandora.

 

[JackTheKnife]

Don't call for everyone to "stop waiting and get a refund" because there needs to be more profit made from new sales to cover refunds/shipping units! We need more patience from everyone.

True, I did not want to call someone to ask for a refund. But the claim "you did not deliver the product to paying customers", is a hard claim when the customer can get a refund when he wants, until the product arrives.

This is not fully true....


Sent from my Notion Ink ADAM using Tapatalk 2

 

[JackTheKnife]

I think, some people cannot get a refund easily as refunds have to go back to the original card ordered against.. Some people no longer have that card, changed banks or whatever, so applying the refund is a bit awkward.

Based on my knowledge refunds were made by a check or over PayPal, but I cannot confirm that - actually I'm stuck in a refund queue =/


Sent from my Notion Ink ADAM using Tapatalk

 

[LineOf7s]

Cheque or PayPal was the choice given to me a couple of weeks ago when I received my refund (in the nick of time it seems).

 

[overgauss]

So instead of addressing better solutions to the problem the boards concentrate on what caused the problem. But a really good excuse is just that. An excuse. Above someone posted 6 points on making the experience better yet few are interested. It is this disinterest, the constant suggestion to cancel, the reactive instead of the preactive or proactive board behavior and the sucks to be you mentality that is the reason why people are canceling in droves. Ed and Craigx have frankly too much on their plate.

Well, the only quotes you had there which affect my shop or me was the one from www.dragonbox.de (Where is my Pandora???) where the issue was not a missing shipment or refund, but simply a missing tracking eMail from DHL.


While I've got a huge email backlog, I check them regularly for any urgent stuff, so I usually refund right away.


All the other quotes were from Craigs customers, not mine. While we work together on the Pandora, our companies, eMails and shops don't have anything to do with each other.

Agreed. I just included that as a data point that not everything is bad and that you guys work to solve the problems. I had considered posting more background info on the matter from the thread, but instead I appear to have confused matters by trying not to confuse matters. In any case the fact that the companies are separate entities with respective shops, emails and such might not be immediately apparent to board lurkers or future investors.It is my belief that board culture needs to change from wait or cancel as the only options. The longer the wait without suitable communication or plans of attack will cause a certain amount of people to cancel. The more people are told to cancel as the definitive answer to their questions, the more people will cancel. In the long run we want less cancellations which is obvious by now. What's not so obvious is the path or solution required to slow down or abolish altogether these cancellations.I'm not sure why people are confused about what I'm saying frankly. I want this to be a success and am offering my opinionated supposition on what factors may or may not be hindering such success. From my limited viewpoint it appears that there is a problem that no one is seriously and fervently trying to solve. Prove me wrong and I would be ecstatic. I want to be proved wrong because that means there is a plan in affect that guarantees that the 2 pandoras I ordered so very long ago will be arriving, maybe not tomorrow or even soon but in a planned and determined fashion.

 

[overgauss]

What about having our own kickstarter? Different levels of donations earn different tiers of gifts. One level might offer signed SD cards preloaded with awesomeness. Another level might offer the same SD card preloaded with more awesomeness with the username somehow integrated into the OS or background. Yet another might offer OP bumperstickers, mousepads and mugs. Is there anything proprietary that can be offered as incentive to donate? Themes? Task/app specific SD's. A personalized and videoed thanks from Craigx and ED saved to the SD? Private access to a forum with specialized content?


Any ideas?

 

[overgauss]

Cheque or PayPal was the choice given to me a couple of weeks ago when I received my refund (in the nick of time it seems).

What can we do to encourage you to cancel your refund?

 

[ekianjo]

What about having our own kickstarter? Different levels of donations earn different tiers of gifts. One level might offer signed SD cards preloaded with awesomeness. Another level might offer the same SD card preloaded with more awesomeness with the username somehow integrated into the OS or background. Yet another might offer OP bumperstickers, mousepads and mugs. Is there anything proprietary that can be offered as incentive to donate? Themes? Task/app specific SD's. A personalized and videoed thanks from Craigx and ED saved to the SD? Private access to a forum with specialized content?


Any ideas?

Kickstarter is for CREATIVE projects. SOmething that is already existing does not qualify for KS. Read the conditions of use.

 

[Orion4874]

Well, I sent my cancellation email. I was planning on waiting till the end of the year just to give it more time but I just don't think it's going to happen. I feel guilty doing it but I just don't have the faith i once did especially now since everything seems to be riding on the Kickstarter campaign. I'm still going to get a Pandora but it'll have to be through ED or ebay later on.

 

[overgauss]

What about having our own kickstarter? Different levels of donations earn different tiers of gifts. One level might offer signed SD cards preloaded with awesomeness. Another level might offer the same SD card preloaded with more awesomeness with the username somehow integrated into the OS or background. Yet another might offer OP bumperstickers, mousepads and mugs. Is there anything proprietary that can be offered as incentive to donate? Themes? Task/app specific SD's. A personalized and videoed thanks from Craigx and ED saved to the SD? Private access to a forum with specialized content?


Any ideas?

Kickstarter is for CREATIVE projects. SOmething that is already existing does not qualify for KS. Read the conditions of use.

Well when I say "our own kickstarter" it's meant to differentiate from a kickstarter that already exist. Because it's our own and not part of kickstarter. Now I know you just saw the word kickstarter and glossed over the rest of my post. I take the blame for some of that because I didn't qualify what I meant in exhaustive detail. Do you have any other input beyond "read the conditions of use" and the other information you provided in regards to the real kickstarter?


I ask because I'd love to hear your input (as well as others) after some thought has been given to the questions raised.


At http://artemiseternal.com/ you will find an example of a kickstarter that is not a kickstarter. It has worked well for them and I suspect that if we GAVE IT A MOMENTS THOUGHT we too could enjoy similar success. If you think having our own type of kickstarter is a bad idea, please lay out your reasons why you think this is the case and please offer your own suggestions on how best to address the current situation or improve upon the kickstarteresque type of idea.


If the community doesn't come together as a whole to recognize and address the issue it will fester until such time that the accumalated rage felt by the founding investers will cause them to cancel in droves. Imagine the effects of large cancellations on the pocketbooks of a company with lean assets and what type of impact that would have on current and future projects. We don't want people to cancel. We want them to stay.


Have you thought on how we can help encourage others to stay? Have you a solution? Have you voiced it? If you did what was the response to your solution? Was it similar to your response to mine? I just saw someone complaining about wading through too many people griping and how it inconvenienced him. This is pretty much exactly what I'm talking about! It's only til now that we see others understand that the frustration is warranted and understandable. Before no one gave a shit. They had a "cancel see if I care" attitude.


I claim that it is this attitude in general that is leading to cancellations. Now that the bottom line is effected people want to suddenly think about the problem. Now the advice given is mostly not to cancel. Why because it is seen that it will jack everything up to high heaven. Now if you guys don't care, that's cool. It would be cooler if you did and acted as such though. I just saw two or three people cancel their orders in the last few forum posts! Do you care now?


They cancelled from fatigue knowing that there is no real respite from it in their near future. Figure out how to alleviate the fatigue. What are the customers asking for? In some cases time and time again! Address these issues. Make your business orderly. Stop requiring people that made a purchase to have to dreg through thread after thread after thread to get information that should have been at their fingertips already. When someone has an issue a Knight of Pandora invariable chastizes them for not reading obscure post 001. Why doesn't the community of such Knights collate a thing or two?


In fact why does the community have to do something that the company(s) should have done already. It's fine if you live on these fourms and have FIVE THOUSAND POSTS OR MORE. However it could be argued that some of that time could have been better spent addressing the administrative needs of the company itself. I can't understand how the collective intellect of these boards can't figure out a way to better organize the Pandora experience especially when you've got guys making wireless control pads and handheld computers on top of all the other things made in the past!


If you don't attend to a festering wound soon enough it becomes gangrenous. WHAT DO ANY OF YOU PLAN TO DO?

 

[overgauss]

Well, I sent my cancellation email. I was planning on waiting till the end of the year just to give it more time but I just don't think it's going to happen. I feel guilty doing it but I just don't have the faith i once did especially now since everything seems to be riding on the Kickstarter campaign. I'm still going to get a Pandora but it'll have to be through ED or ebay later on.

OK. I'm in the same boat. I'M ABOUT TO GRADUATE COLLEGE THAT'S HOW LONG IT'S TAKEN! I planned to use it for my engineering courses but...I was about to bite the bullet and get the icontrol pad thingy because it would be useful in my studies and projects. But I thought to myself "have you lost your damned mind?!" It's not like I don't have a looong history of experience about what to expect. For me it's not a good idea. For others I'm sure it's great. There's at least 5-6 reasons off the top of my head why not to fund it (which I won't recount here).


Now I only said all of that to illustrate I understand your frustration(I'm waiting for TWO Pandoras and my lady thinks I'm crazy to still believe they're coming. BTW obviously one was for her as she works as an IT specialist). If I could convince you not to cancel I would (I don't think you should cancel). However I'm not even going to try. OK on second thought how about you wait a few weeks to give the team enough time to develop some assurances for folks like you and myself?


This post was actually only going to be two sentances or so, but dammit I feel your pain.


My original question (post) for you was on a scale ranging from likely or probable to unlikely or you're dreaming, what would you need to see done so that you don't cancel. Give us the realistic option that you'd settle for, your dream option and something in between if you would be so kind. We need these types of data points so that the community can get a better grasp on what's going on and maybe get a handle on how to fix it.


-O