The current situation

[steved]

I admire Craig, Ed and co for NOT walking away when things went bad. They deserve credit for continuing to do their best to make sure everybody gets their Pandora. It seems a real shame that every time there is progress a new problem emerges.


Personally I am waiting for a 1Ghz unit from Craig (to supplement my existing batch 1 unit), and whilst I feel a little let down...( I ordered it principally to help shorten the queue and secondly because its a cool upgrade).... I really want them to succeed (I have now also backed the ICP2).


We need to be careful not to drive the people with the innovative ideas and the drive to turn them into products away!

 

[skeezix]

"for great justice" | "for extreme justice" are translations from Zero Wing ("all your base are belong to us"; it was a meme from a few years ago, when you really want to see an answer, or bump something, or agree to something. I might've misused it (may have been used for sarcasm before, I forget), but it was in jest to say 'yes, I agree with torpor', from a retro gamer nerd perspective .. hey, referencing Zero Wing is always fun... so I thought Figured I was dreding an old warhorse meme out for lulz.


Then shit gets bad, with Craig doing an instant-turn to 'you hate me, you always hated me!' drama.. thats the straw that breaks this camels back. You can go through years of helping, and then the slightest misperception and blammo, his guns are out. Happens too often.


Anyway, this thread is a good thread, and its not about me, I don't want it to go there/stay there; but 'for great justice' and variations, I thought it was okay, but about 5-10 years out of date for memes, so no one caught it. Sorry :/

 

[Linux-SWAT]

The very simple facts are, I paid CircuitCo to do a job, and they didn't do it, and we were left in the shit.

And you still did not punished them in any way, which is imho the main problem onto the entire situation. At the Moment, the Useres have to pay for all the mess of the Pandora troubles, CC (and otheres) made. This is not only unfair but actualy the completely wrong way to deal with this. It's like EU finance crisis, the poor People have to pay for the mistakes of Banks and speculations of the Finance Industry and these that caused all the mess are still laughing and still doing their bad stuff (I mean CC, not the OP-Team).


CC owes "us" Millions I would say, so force them to pay everty cent, they owe, not the Community.

Unfortunately, CC is a US company, so suing them will probably lead to a defeat.

 

[Loonie]

And you still did not punished them in any way, which is imho the main problem onto the entire situation. At the Moment, the Useres have to pay for all the mess of the Pandora troubles, CC (and otheres) made. This is not only unfair but actualy the completely wrong way to deal with this. It's like EU finance crisis, the poor People have to pay for the mistakes of Banks and speculations of the Finance Industry and these that caused all the mess are still laughing and still doing their bad stuff (I mean CC, not the OP-Team).


CC owes "us" Millions I would say, so force them to pay everty cent, they owe, not the Community.

Great idea. How would you implement it?

 

[ShleeDragon]

And you still did not punished them in any way, which is imho the main problem onto the entire situation. At the Moment, the Useres have to pay for all the mess of the Pandora troubles, CC (and otheres) made. This is not only unfair but actualy the completely wrong way to deal with this. It's like EU finance crisis, the poor People have to pay for the mistakes of Banks and speculations of the Finance Industry and these that caused all the mess are still laughing and still doing their bad stuff (I mean CC, not the OP-Team).


CC owes "us" Millions I would say, so force them to pay everty cent, they owe, not the Community.

Great idea. How would you implement it?

Do you know how much that would cost? more than the pre-orders that's for sure.

 

[overgauss]

You see this is what I'm talking about. The answer to that is obviously no. It's like asking well why don't you cancel then? As if not declaring bankruptcy precludes you from any of the proactive actions I listed to earnestly show you have the original preorders best interest at heart. I could just as easily ask would you rather we all ask for a refund right now? Well guess what? Some of us CAN'T get a refund.

You do understand that Craig was about to file for insolvency (i.e. give up), and it was only ED's willpower that allows anyone to get their Pandoras at all? If they had filed for insolvency, only two things could have happened:


1. The entire project could have been abandoned


2. A new company could have been created to sell Pandoras to new customers


In both cases, all old preorderers would have received nothing. No refunds, no Pandoras. At least this way, you can actually get something, even if it's late.

I'm not sure how you came to the belief that I thought if Craig went bankrupt we'd still be getting a Pandora or our money back. It's part of the reason why I said that obviously Craig going bankrupt was not what I wanted to happen. Saying that at least this way, you can actually get something even if it is late is insufficient. How about we get things in a timely fashion by promoting the hell out of the product to generate sales. How about some transparency and clarification? How many classic preorders are left? Say the number is 700. What is the plan to get these out of the door? Are there any time frame estimates. Is there a method to openly communicate the status of these orders without having to dig through forums? Is there more than one plan of attack to address the issue? Are there any non-forum specific official statements on the matter. Does a faq exist that addresses most of these issues?


If communication where more open and direct by design certain email inboxes wouldn't be so full. Can you tell me what has been done in any of these regards to fix the problem? As far as I know there is merely some ratio of new sales versus old and now a kickstarter project. That's it! Is it your claim that that is all that needs to be done? No official statements. No direct emails keeping everyone appraised etc. Further to expect anything more than what has been given us is declared irrational and unrealistic.

 

[overgauss]

...


This ignores the fact that obviously people don't want a refund. They want the product that they've ordered. Once you factor in exchange rates, depreciation of the USD and the fact some of the credit cards or accounts to purchase the units (in my case 2) are now closed, the refund option is problematic.


...


...


(lots more)


...

1. Holy Mother Nature your post is overlong. If you desire thorough answers I'd suggest you trim it down. As you can see OPT tries their best to respond to the rants, but the longer they are...


2. I've invested in the 1 GHz, and no agreement has been made on whether I will get refunded the difference for dollar inflation and british-pound-to-dollar exchange. If it takes 5 years and I cancel in 3, I accept the risk of loss (or gain, however unlikely) in my original investment when I get it back. If my gmail account closes and my refund becomes difficult or impossible, OPT may try to help but it quite frankly isn't logically their problem. If I don't like this I shouldn't have gotten involved in a preorder scenario!


So it is not problematic for OPT, that is a false declaration. It may be distasteful or impossible for the customer to cancel, but in the end that's nobody's responsibility but their own. Had they cancelled earlier those factors wouldn't matter.


Don't take me for cold -- I do want the customer to receive their product and be satisfied. The problems you lay out may be a challenge for OPT as they try to accommodate, but I cannot see how they are the moral or business responsibility of OPT. And don't take my statements as representing anyone's opinion but my own. I am speaking just from basic business concepts.


3. You're completely one-sided. You talk of "Pandora Knights" and really give no credit to OPT at all. As articulate as you are, you sound irrationally angry to me. Not that you don't have a right to be, but your reasoning is hard to take seriously.


4. You argued that it isn't an upgrade, then turned around and stated that customers paid for the upgrade with time. You are wrong; it is an upgrade because CC boards that can be recovered are not being sent to fulfill old preorders, when they could be. You are wrong again to complain of the time cost; this is a risk adopted by the customer at the time the preorder is placed. (see #2)


EDIT: Just to clarify, you can complain of the waiting period as it draws longer, but in the context of your statements you said the wait was a cost to "pay for" the upgrade, which is at best misleading and at worst libel because when OPT said free they weren't referring to time (obviously).

I'm not going to address every point because your attention span can't take it. Not a slight just going by what you said in 1.

If my gmail account closes and my refund becomes difficult or impossible, OPT may try to help but it quite frankly isn't logically their problem.

OPT may try to help but it quite frankly isn't logically their problem.


OPT may try to help but it quite frankly isn't logically their problem.


OPT may try to help but it quite frankly isn't logically their problem.


OPT may try to help but it quite frankly isn't logically their problem.

If I don't like this I shouldn't have gotten involved in a preorder scenario!

I missed the part in the pre-order terms of agreement that recieving my product would take over three years. Normally when I pre-order things it is with the assumption that a type of contract has been entered and will be filled in a timely fashion. In the event a catastrophy occurs I would be expected to be notified directly about the problem and the proposed solution with a request to cancel my pre-order or keep it at my own risk.

So it is not problematic for OPT, that is a false declaration. It may be distasteful or impossible for the customer to cancel, but in the end that's nobody's responsibility but their own. Had they cancelled earlier those factors wouldn't matter.

If I said that then of course it would be a false declaration. But I didn't. OBVIOUSLY its not problematic for OPT. It's problematic for the customer. I am talking from a customer's perspective after all. How dare you suggest it's our fault for not canceling earlier when we had every assurance that things were moving well in spite of certain hiccups and that a unit was only two months away?

3. You're completely one-sided. You talk of "Pandora Knights" and really give no credit to OPT at all. As articulate as you are, you sound irrationally angry to me. Not that you don't have a right to be, but your reasoning is hard to take seriously.

Is all that you really did was defend OPT and declare it's the customer's fault? Why you must be a Pandora Knight to the rescue! No fault lies anywhere but the customer. To suggest otherwise is irrational.

4. You argued that it isn't an upgrade, then turned around and stated that customers paid for the upgrade with time. You are wrong; it is an upgrade because CC boards that can be recovered are not being sent to fulfill old preorders, when they could be. You are wrong again to complain of the time cost; this is a risk adopted by the customer at the time the preorder is placed. (see #2)

Your right, I should have put scare quotes around the word upgrade. What I meant was if you even want to call it an upgrade, it's advertising speak for we don't make the old stuff and everyone is getting the new stuff. Since your order is so old we've "upgraded" you to the only thing we still manufacture for free! But it wasn't a free upgrade when you've got people waiting 3 years or more. Do you think such lengths of time has no worth and is meaningless?

this is a risk adopted by the customer at the time the preorder is placed. (see #2)

If this were true and people had such expectations during the initial preorder don't you think this point would have been argued more often and successfully? Why isn't this the case? It's because no one had any idea back then that they would be waiting 3 years for a unit while at the same time see new buyers getting their units in less than a month. That wouldn't be so bad if more was communicated to the classic preorder folks directly and a more robust plan of attack developed to address the issue other than telling us to just wait it's coming. Then going over the CC issue and how Craigx could have gone bankrupt etc. Instead of outfront saying these crappy things happened but we made a promise to you and this is how we plan to keep it. We're going to have to use the funds of new purchases to release old preorders. I know. I know that seems unfair but the reality of the situation is that the funds really aren't there. To expedite the process where going to x, y and z and we invite the community to provide us with ideas. We've even created a Pandora ad image that you can print and display in your home town and are working on forum signatures that link to our advertisement website and videos. We're even going to send some of our older refurbished units to game blogs for reviews and we have a secret bomb that we haven't released yet so stay tuned for more info.


Something like that would be nice. But don't take it from me because I'm irrationally angry ranting guy. Aslo the issue isn't Ed and Craigx's handleing of the project as a whole it's just this one area that needs significant improvement with some modifications to statement and plan release info.

 

[rohezal]

The fact is, this situation exists: no products delivered to paying customers.

This is not right. A lot (I think most) costumers received their products, some have to wait for a long time, since a some things went wrong. But they will receive their product with a (long) delay. They get a free very good upgrade (double RAM) of their product, for waiting a long time. Everyone can stop waiting and get a refund.


I think this describes the current situation more accurate.


Edit:


Since some people seem to be upset or insecure: keep calm, wait a bit and let craig and ED manage the situation. It is only 20K and they got 700 old omap units left (which needs to be placed in new cases etc), they can sell them for 280€ per piece.


Craig gets some taxes (probably vats) back which will mostly cover the 20K missing.


And even as third option: when someone buys 1 ghz edition, craig and ed makes a profit. This money can be used for the 20K missing too.


So everything is still ok, but they have to be very careful. If not a lot of people want a refund in very short time again, everything will work, and in the end it will be even better, since cheap underpriced units are out of the queue.


If you want that everything works, don't panic and best do nothing (or ask people to buy a 1 ghz unit).

 

[Saber]

Once word of this mess gets propagated around the Kickstarter campaign, things will slow down. There must be a clear, honest, open position on what happened with Open Pandora Pty Ltd., and why there are thousands of un-happy 'contributors' to the Pandora project (financial contributors, really, not at all customers) who have STILL NOT received *anything* for their efforts in providing previous crowd-funding to Craig so he can get the hardware done.


....

Well said! Quoted for extreme justice


jeff

There's an old saying: "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it".


If or when the tech press writes a negative article about Openpandora, that'll be the time to act, but for now, we can decide to either feed the fear, however realistic, or decide to continue to make the ongoing Kickstarter a sensation. I'm choosing the latter.

 

[sepp256]

The fact is, this situation exists: no products delivered to paying customers.

This is not right. A lot (I think most) costumers received their products, some have to wait for a long time, since a some things went wrong. But they will receive their product with a (long) delay. They get a free very good upgrade (double RAM) of their product, for waiting a long time. Everyone can stop waiting and get a refund.


I think this describes the current situation more accurate.

Don't call for everyone to "stop waiting and get a refund" because there needs to be more profit made from new sales to cover refunds/shipping units! We need more patience from everyone.

 

[ibisum]

Too much being said, by the wrong people. I will bow out, but I leave you with this thought: do you really want to live in a world where only Android and iOS hardware is being made?

 

[rohezal]

Don't call for everyone to "stop waiting and get a refund" because there needs to be more profit made from new sales to cover refunds/shipping units! We need more patience from everyone.

True, I did not want to call someone to ask for a refund. But the claim "you did not deliver the product to paying customers", is a hard claim when the customer can get a refund when he wants, until the product arrives.

 

[ShleeDragon]

meh

 

[fusion_power]

Unfortunately, CC is a US company, so suing them will probably lead to a defeat.

?


Lawsuits around the Globe seems to be pretty common, daily business these days. And since OP-Team has a ton of evidences against CC, the situation should be clear. or is there a law that forbid sueing US Companies?


Otherwise, nobody would make business with them, and there are usualy contracts that have to be fullfilled. Contract punishments included when one side doesn't do what is listed in the contract.


Seriously, nobody can want that CC comes through, without beeing punished for the mess they've made.

 

[diligentcircle]

I'm not sure how you came to the belief that I thought if Craig went bankrupt we'd still be getting a Pandora or our money back.

How the heck do you expect a company with no money to give you money or a product that costs money?

 

[overgauss]

The fact is, this situation exists: no products delivered to paying customers.

This is not right. A lot (I think most) costumers received their products, some have to wait for a long time, since a some things went wrong. But they will receive their product with a (long) delay. They get a free very good upgrade (double RAM) of their product, for waiting a long time. Everyone can stop waiting and get a refund.


I think this describes the current situation more accurate.

I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate your positive attitude. Thanks for being positive. I must add however, that the usage of the word upgrade bothers me. It bothers me because technology has advanced over this time frame so these newer units are the standard units. The specs has changed as a function of time such that shipping the older models today isn't feasible. Additionally requesting people to cancel doesn't solve the problem it makes it worse. I'll show you.


Craigx said:

This was actually working really well, we managed to clear some debts and ship about 100 units quickly, but then we had some large preorders cancelled unexpectedly. The people who cancelled these were not being nasty or awkward, they just needed the money back and I can understand this in the current climate. It amounted to ~100 units.

I claim that the fact so many people cancelled is why we are having this discussion and why the update was posted in the first place. Now if you read the boards, you'll see that those that have cancelled due to delays or other related issues are marginalized as if their input or money is no longer required. Allow me to illustrate.


.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


From the post:


Not getting my requested refund!!!!!

So I ordered a Pandora TWO YEARS ago, It never came so last week I asked very nicely for a refund.

Jacquelyn, said I would get a refund but nothing has happned in a week and she doesn't return emails now.


Have I been scammed?

Jesus!.. have you not read anywhere on this forum?? have I been scammed? :blink:

I think what he means to say is... patience

Speaking as someone who has received a refund very recently (after waiting about a week from the confirmation of the cancellation of the order), be confident that your refund is coming.

Ask again.

Call 911.

kuru, on 07 September 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:


Call 911.


Or perhaps:


0118 999 881 999 119 725 3

• Members
  
• 
  
  
  
  
• 332 posts
  

Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:04 AM


TrashyMG, on 07 September 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:


kuru, on 07 September 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:


Call 911.


Or perhaps:


0118 999 881 999 119 725 3Well that's easy to remember!


BTW OP: read this


Quote Pratchett: "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

You really should have put more exclamation marks in the title. As it is now it is difficult to understand how bad your situation is, so for your own sake, be more emotional.

.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


From the post:


THREE YEARS and still no Pandora

Hello, I pre-ordered almost three years ago. I am yet to recieve my pandora, depsite them being readily available.

Whether I have been forgotten about, or if they're just not actually available, I don't know.


I ordered my Pandora in the UK from Craig I believe, via Google Checkout.


Who can I contact for a refund?


Thanks.


Edit: I'm reading something about a better model for the same price, can anyone enlighten me? Depending how good this is I may consider waiting, but otherwise I need the money for a laptop for university.


Thanks.

You are not alone

Your not reading a better model for the same price!

stainy, on 05 August 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:


Your not reading a better model for the same price!


Sure there is. If he doesn't cancel he'll get a 512 MB unit at some time, without having to pay more.

I am in Craig's queue with a batch one pre-order. You say there are only a few pre-orders left to ship. I would like a number as few means nothing. If there are only a few why not take a leap of faith and just ship them all out. All of the people that placed a pre-order took a leap of faith for you guys. It's time to reciprocate.

n6pfk, on 05 August 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:


... If there are only a few why not take a leap of faith and just ship them all out. All of the people that placed a pre-order took a leap of faith for you guys. It's time to reciprocate.


There's no such thing as a leap of faith here. They need gas to keep the car moving, end of story.


ED has explained this I don't know how many times, if they spend all they money they have now they would only be able to fill preorders and the project dies. I'm not even sure if they'd fill all the preorders that way or if that would be even legal with the contracts they signed with investors. It doesn't matter, it's a terrible idea regardless of how righteous it is.


You can get your money back, you can also upgrade. These guys are bending over backwards to give everyone options and keep the campfire alive.


Other people like myself have also been pitching money at this project in various ways to help keep it going. It's a team effort, and I am very grateful for all you patient preorders that made this possible in the first place. Without you this wonderful device wouldn't exist. Seriously thanks, and I hope you can hold on while OPT works to make things right.

Idk, I think there need to be a point where the focus should be fufilling those pre-orders and be done with it. Isn't that better than people canceling and asking for refunds? All this seems endless.

Send from my ZTE Warp

Of cause it would be great if the preorders were fulfilled, but without the money to produce new Pandoras that is out of question. At least until enough pandoras are sold to finance the outstanding preorders. I once visited ED and he told me that he tries anything he is capable of to get those preorders shipped. IIRC that was over a year ago and following what he told us on the forums I'm quite sure he does exactly that.

Edit: And yes, I am still waiting for my Pandora and ordered it three years ago, too.

Really, so Rebirth Edition pandoras come with the newer SGX do they? That's even sweeter

There've been a lot of order questions posted here recently, I think there should be a sticky in the general section with a Pandora Order Q&A.


1. Where to buy a pandora? What models are for sale? What is the current pricing, and what is difference in features?


2. What is the current status with classic pandoras? Why are they shipping slowly at the moment and what steps is OP taking to make sure they are being shipped?


3. What are the benefits of waiting for your classic order? What are the differences between the classic unit and updated Rebirth Edition pandora?


4. How can customers speed up their order?


5. How can customers upgrade their order? What upgrade options are available?


6. How does refunding work?

Would you believe me if I told you that this is a TINY company that for every dollar they make in profit they work there rears off for - and then they bend over backward trying to fix stuff like this and that's why Craig can be well - Craig ( kidding I'm trying to keep this person from canceling )

Well, looks like there's no going back

I emailed in to ask about how I would cancel, so they just cancelled my order anyway I hope someone else will enjoy it.


It's been a fun ride, I might come back when the 1GHz model goes on sale and I get a job or if my grant money comes in.

I too have been waiting awhile. I ordered my Pandora back in January of 2010. I run a review show where my main focus is console reviews. I currently have 40,000 followers and I want makes this so frustrating is that I was going to and still hope to review and provide free advertising for Pandora. I have been given dozens of false hopes "oh well it'll only be a couple more months", or "we'll ship it out soon". If I only had a dollar for every time I read that than I could afford two Pandoras. My patience has grown thin and I don't understand the business model of "pay us more and we'll ship it out now" if I already paid for it back in the day. I am a very understand and patient individual but this has gotten to be a huge mess. I know there are many who are on the same boat that I am on but to wait this long with false hopes is very frustrating.

wow hello gamester81 I have seen lots of your reviews and they are very good although sometimes you appear to be a bit rough with your systems and whatnot.

Anyway when you do receive your Pandora which I'm very sure you will, you will really enjoy it.

Gamester81, on 08 September 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:


I too have been waiting awhile. I ordered my Pandora back in January of 2010. I run a review show where my main focus is console reviews. I currently have 40,000 followers and I want makes this so frustrating is that I was going to and still hope to review and provide free advertising for Pandora. I have been given dozens of false hopes "oh well it'll only be a couple more months", or "we'll ship it out soon". If I only had a dollar for every time I read that than I could afford two Pandoras. My patience has grown thin and I don't understand the business model of "pay us more and we'll ship it out now" if I already paid for it back in the day. I am a very understand and patient individual but this has gotten to be a huge mess. I know there are many who are on the same boat that I am on but to wait this long with false hopes is very frustrating.


Sounds like you don't know the history of this project very well. I'll explain it (though only because I really like your reviews and would really like to see you cover the Pandora).


So, in the beginning, the Pandora was a dream from a few community members, including Craig, sort of the ringleader. I can't give much detail about this time period since I wasn't around at that time, but the gist of it is that the console was developed, it was all great, yadda yadda yadda.


Now, since I came in late, I don't know about the delays from 2008 to 2010, but basically, the delays were a combination of how complicated the Pandora is and all the various companies involved (the worst part being that many parts were being made away from Europe). But those were sorted out, and either in 2010 or 2011 (I want to say 2010), it seemed like the Pandora was finally going to be delivered. This was about the time I found out about the Pandora; I recall a status page being updated to say that the Pandora's development was finally finished, and it was time to ship them.


Unfortunately, what the Pandora team didn't realize was that one of the companies involved, CircuitCo (the company in Texas that was manufacturing the PCB), had been dishonest with the Pandora team and was doing bizarre and bad things without telling OpenPandora. In short, this led to an extremely high failure rate for Pandoras and high costs.


At some point after all this, OpenPandora was in the toilet. Allegedly, Craig actually was ready to give up and prepared the papers to file for bankruptcy. But this would mean, of course, that the project would have died; nobody would get their Pandoras, and nobody would get their money back. But EvilDragon insisted on carrying on, and long story short, by getting investments from the community, they were able to move production of the PCB from CC to a company in Germany called Global Components.


Now, with all that, here is an explanation of the current situation:


Although GC is proving to be much, much better than CC, it is also more expensive than CC would have been had it been good (of course, keep in mind that CC being a shitty company means that it wouldn't have been cheaper to keep producing there). Therefore, the price you paid is now below the cost to manufacture the Pandora, i.e. OpenPandora loses money for each original preorder that is delivered. To make up for this, they need to sell new units, so that is exactly what they are doing: for any given number of new units sold (3, I think), an original preorder is shipped.


So, these are your current options as an original preorderer, assuming you want to get the Pandora:


1. You can wait, and you will get your order, though it may be some months.


2. You can cancel your order and buy a Pandora at EvilDragon's shop ithic.com; they are in stock, so you will get it very soon if you do this, though it costs a bit more.


3. You can upgrade to the 1GHz model (AFAIK); this costs quite a bit more, but you will get it sooner this way in addition to getting the better hardware.


You can also of course just cancel your order if you wish, though that would make me sad, since that would mean no Pandora review from Gamester81.

Well, when I asked for a refund I was told the following:

"We can only refund to the account and card used to make the payment."


That account and card have gone kaput some time ago. :/

I ordered originally in 2008, then that got refunded with the CC issue.
So I re-ordered again in 2009 and not heard a peep since. I enquired in 2010 and got


"Your queue position is approximately 2800-3000. Your order should ship within the next month or so"


Now this is clearly shitty, but I'm not too pissed off. I know there have been problems and whilst this was never going to make the makers rich, I think they've suffered enough without me joining in - Or looking at it another way, a large chunk of what I paid was "I want somebody to try to make this happen" - more of an experience, than a purchase.


Anyway, to get to my point. I really don't actually need a Pandora any more, I don't want to cause trouble by stamping my feet and demanding a refund - but seems a bit stupid repeatedly asking when it'll arrive and then just planning on ebaying it/selling in the forums to somebody who still needs one etc.


What I do quite fancy is an iControlPad2. Not quite sure what the financial relationship is between the same two products, but I'd quite happily accept one of these in it's place. I saw on kickstarter that there are some 'special edition' controllers for the big contributors. Any chance of considering producing a "I ordered a Pandora and all I got was this stupid keyboard" edition? I dunno, I'd feel I'd contributed to the dream, I'd end up with something I actually would like that would be rare, plus it reduces the liability of outstanding debts that must be depressing everybody involved in trying to churn out the Pandoras.


Anyway, just a thought

.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


From the post:


www.dragonbox.de (wheres My pandora !!!!!) [sOLVED]

i would like to thank every one for the help spicaly EvilDragon

i got my trecking number and every thing look good to go


just cant wait to get my hands on the pandora

saqer, on 28 July 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:


thanks can you please send me the tracking number for dhl


And can you refund the other order


I can't wait to get my hands on my pandora


My email is <hidden for your safety-use pm>@gmail.com


Will refund the MoneyBookers payment right away.

.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


So instead of addressing better solutions to the problem the boards concentrate on what caused the problem. But a really good excuse is just that. An excuse. Above someone posted 6 points on making the experience better yet few are interested. It is this disinterest, the constant suggestion to cancel, the reactive instead of the preactive or proactive board behavior and the sucks to be you mentality that is the reason why people are canceling in droves. Ed and Craigx have frankly too much on their plate. This means that efficiency in operation should be paramount. Since frequently asked questions go unanswered, frustrations develop. Since there is no refined repository of knowledge or monthly updates email inboxes begin to overflow. There are so many Knights of Pandora available, some with highly developed skillsets yet none of them are tapped to help fix the problem.


For instance the community could totally wreck CC very cheaply and legally if we put our backbone into it. I have ideas on how to do it but lets hear yours first.

 

[overgauss]

I'm not sure how you came to the belief that I thought if Craig went bankrupt we'd still be getting a Pandora or our money back.

How the heck do you expect a company with no money to give you money or a product that costs money?

Hmmm. Can you clarify the question? I see you're offline so I will try to answer as best I can. In the event you meant what do I expect if Craigx went bankrupt, my response would be nothing. In the case you are excluding bankruptcy and that Craigx is broke and can't give a refund...actually I understand now that you misread what I said.


I'm saying why would you think I would expect a refund from a company that went bankrupt or expect them to ship a product in that state? I wondered where did that come from. That's crazy! I see now that you misread an earlier post of mine. I said that because someone DID NOT declare bankruptcy does not mean that they are prohibited from doing things like better communication, devising plans and communicating these plans to the customers, generating mindspace for the Pandora name through advertising blitzes etc. At no point in the bankruptcy discussion was I saying that if he went bankrupt he should still give refunds and ship pandoras.


If the idea you're commenting appears ludicrous and against basic common sense, go ahead and reread the post to make sure you didn't misinterpret what was being said. I do it all the time in similar situations then I'm like "OH! I missed a verb there. It makes sense now."

 

[ghostpatch]

you dont know the reasons behind the cancellations. What you are doing is making assumptions. Thats totally fine but you present it as facts and people who read your posts might think its all fact. Maybe your right about some but thats not my point.


Also keep in mind its a HUGE logistc task they have to deal with and its not even their main job! They're doing this in their free time.

 

[diligentcircle]

Sorry, misunderstanding on my part.

 

[overgauss]

you dont know the reasons behind the cancellations. What you are doing is making assumptions. Thats totally fine but you present it as facts and people who read your posts might think its all fact. Maybe your right about some but thats not my point.

True. Thank you for correcting me. I should have qualified those statements with "a likely cause", "if I were in their shoes", "it's my belief" or something along those lines. I wasn't making assumptions, I was generating likely causes by using what is actually being stated on these boards and using that evidence and other types of evidence to show why "I think" people are leaving so fast. What do you think the reasons are?

This appears to be an atypical event with some rarity associated with it. That's why we're talking about it. Because it's a big deal. So what is the root cause(s) of the issue? People have been told to cancel for a long time here and obviously some did just that well within acceptable or expected limits. Do you understand how tiresome it is to be a founder and lurker and when another founder asks questions or expresses displeasure to see over and over again how they are often met with a lack of empathy or even curtesy? Everyone is happy with their results and can't grasp why someone else might not be happy with theirs. Instead of helping to solve the problem these people just tell them to cancel. That's is far as their thought goes. They give the impression "I'm happy and if you're not happy you should wait. If you can't wait you should cancel (you can see how that is working out)."


The problem is that waiting and canceling aren't the only options for customer satisfaction. For instance if you show someone a roadmap with milestones and you consistently meet those milestones it's much much easier to wait to get to the end of the road instead of hearing "Hey you back seat driver! Hush up there or get out!" Another hypothesis of mine is that since the founders have not en masse requested a refund a sense of security arose in that old pre-orders are in the bag. Why worry over them or prioritize them? They get their stuff when they get their stuff! This shows directly the value of the founders held by most on this board and the team itself.


How can I say this? Look at the discussion. What are we talking about? Everything we're talking about prioritizes everything other than the founding customers. When this is brought up people seem to think that addressing this issue somehow removes the ability to sell new units or gain profitability. Frankly I think 1ghz units are cool. I'm a little incensed however that directly after the announcement was made for these units an equally large announcement was not made for founding investors. Why? My guess is because we're just considered old customers anyway and they already have our money with little fear of cancellation, because historically speaking we don't cancel. We don't cancel because we love the idea of the Pandora that much.


So now we're just second and third class gaming citizens that occasionally pipe up every once and awhile but if you ignore them, they'll settle down just fine. Man up. Think on it a bit. Address us. Address the issue. So you don't have people like me speculating on how communication, forum activity, email activity etc etc is leading to an increase in cancellations. This whole thread is a response to cancellations! Cancellation is a bad thing. If we tried to figure out how to stop them instead of telling people to do them I think we would be on the way to a good thing.

Also keep in mind its a HUGE logistc task they have to deal with and its not even their main job! They're doing this in their free time.

No doubt. Why not let volunteers help with the trivial stuff so that they can concentrate on the non-trivial stuff? Ask the community for ideas. Why waste time answering the same questions over and over, when you can answer it once and post it as a document? Someone around here has photoshop skills. Why not have a Pandora ad contest with cheap but decent prizes. Or set up a set it and forget it Pandora store that sells mousepads, t-shirts, mugs or whatever? Ask for community help in designing those too. There's many solutions to the problem. Some better than others, but we've got to at least think about it.

Sorry, misunderstanding on my part.

No bigs. Happens to me all the time.