If you can't bother to read back in the thread like a responsible forumite, try this: it's OPT's responsibility your Pandoras are late, it's your responsibility your refund isn't worth as much as it originally was. EDIT: Of course, that's my opinion.
Nah, it's a matter of spare time... I can see you don't understand, so nevermind.
And no, that's a pretty stupid statement, to derive from my statements that the fault always lies entirely with the customer. The obvious context you conveniently ignored was "Depreciation of $$$ and Inability to Cancel Due to Closed E-mail Accounts". Did you intentionally leave that out?
Frankly I don't even know what you're saying here. For instance when I said
Once you factor in exchange rates, depreciation of the USD and the fact some of the credit cards or accounts to purchase the units (in my case 2) are now closed, the refund option is problematic.
was nothing more than saying due to financial circumstances if one were to cancel now it would be at a non-trivial loss financially speaking. On top of that there's the opportunity cost that's lost not having your money for such a length of time. Getting a refund at any step of the way only detracts from the needed resources of the OPT. There's also the issue of closed credit cards and certain accounts that add to the problem. Now if you have the postion that I conveniently left that out because somehow it makes the user more at fault then you would be mistaken. I left it out because the point stood on its own and there remains much bigger fish to fry.
You claim it's stupid to gather that you think OP can do no wrong yet fully place all of the blame on the customer! Allow me to illustrate.
If your beef with my replies is that I don't have any vitriol for OPT, it's because in my regard they get quite enough of a daily dosage.
Here is where some of my beef comes from o' squire.
I accept the risk of loss (or gain, however unlikely) in my original investment when I get it back. If my gmail account closes and my refund becomes difficult or impossible, OPT may try to help but it quite frankly isn't logically their problem. If I don't like this I shouldn't have gotten involved in a preorder scenario!
When I ordered my crystal ball was in the shop but figuring out how to get people their money under special circumstances is as you say logically not their problem and its pretty much reasonable and expected for us to sit on a bowling ball if our situation changed in 3-4 years. Who does that anyway? What fool would change their situation after only 3 years. Hell I've got credit cards back from 1942 when they printed them on tin cans. Both durable and non-perishable I might add.
So it is not problematic for OPT, that is a false declaration. It may be distasteful or impossible for the customer to cancel, but in the end that's nobody's responsibility but their own. Had they cancelled earlier those factors wouldn't matter.
If I had the same sense to cancel, I would have had the same sense not to preorder. Screw good faith, hope and believing in the OPT!
Don't take me for cold -- I do want the customer to receive their product and be satisfied. The problems you lay out may be a challenge for OPT as they try to accommodate, but I cannot see how they are the moral or business responsibility of OPT. And don't take my statements as representing anyone's opinion but my own. I am speaking just from basic business concepts.
I am speaking just from basic business concepts.
I am speaking just from basic business concepts.
I am speaking just from basic business concepts.
I am speaking just from basic business concepts.
HA!
You're completely one-sided. You talk of "Pandora Knights" and really give no credit to OPT at all. As articulate as you are, you sound irrationally angry to me. Not that you don't have a right to be, but your reasoning is hard to take seriously.
The customers reasoning is at fault and irrational because an insufficient amount of credit is given to OPT. These comes from the what do you guys expect them to do about the CC issue go bankrupt? No. No one wants that however that issue doesn't explain all the other things that haven't been done to fix the problem. You see we've moved on and expect the team to do so as well. If your car breaks down and you can't get to work and when you get it fixed the shop totals it, I could see your boss giving you leeway for a few days. But if you can't show up for work on time or at all for 3-4 years because of something that happened outside of your control, your boss might ask if you've thought about taking the bus, or the rail, carpooling, riding a bike, catching a train, a cab, moving closer to work; he pays you on time and keeps you on because you have an awesome brain. Why not use that brain coupled with the numerous suggestions already given to you over the course of YEARS to fix your transportation issue?
You argued that it isn't an upgrade, then turned around and stated that customers paid for the upgrade with time. You are wrong; it is an upgrade because CC boards that can be recovered are not being sent to fulfill old preorders, when they could be. You are wrong again to complain of the time cost; this is a risk adopted by the customer at the time the preorder is placed. (see #2)
Again the customer is wrong. If I ordered a burger, a medium coke and small fries and didn't recieve it after 3 years. Meaning it took so long that a large coke is what we now call a medium and a medium fries is what we'd call a small, when the smaller sizes are no longer sold you'd call it an upgrade. Do you know that cokes in fast food joints used to come in 8oz cups? The old Pandoras don't exist anymore. Everyone is getting the same product at basically the same price counting inflation, depreciation and currency exchange rates. But the extra bonusy awesome part is that although we're all basically getting the same unit being a founding investers gives us the highly sought out (just look how many people are waiting in line for it) opportunity to wait vastly longer than everybody the fuck else. But it's cool. We've been upgraded.
EDIT: Just to clarify, you can complain of the waiting period as it draws longer, but in the context of your statements you said the wait was a cost to "pay for" the upgrade, which is at best misleading and at worst libel because when OPT said free they weren't referring to time (obviously).
Just as obviously I didn't mean that we litterally paid with a time cashiers check. The first of which to have been framed and hung up in Ed's office. Plus I already told you that that was advertising speech when the word upgrade was used and if you want to call it an actual upgrade then I'm going to use customer pissed off advertising speech to indicate that this "upgrade" was paid in full by time AND THE NATRUAL ADVANCES OF TECHNOLOGY THAT DON'T SEEM TO STOP PROGRESSING.
That is fair, but when you entered that contract was there any timeframe involved? And do you always make assumptions on contracts?
Again if there was any legitimate timeframe offered people like yourself would state many many times what the time frame stated. There are a few assumptions I make regarding contracts some of which happen to have precedence in law.
The person receiving my money operates under the assumption that it is legal tender.
I operate under the belief that once my money clears the bank, the vendor will make every effort to fulfil his end of the contract in a timely fashion.
If the vendor can not do so he should contact me to make arrangements for a refund if not outright cancel my order already while providing me the option to renew at a later date.
I assume the vendor will communicate directly with me in the event he or she is unable to fulfil their contract.
I expect that if a vendor makes NO MENTION of delays amounting to several years, allows for the possibility or provides an update status that this is the case, that my product is in good hands and should arrive in a timely fashion.
Lastly I believe certain issues weren't highlighted previously because it would mean that the investors would want their money back and destroy OPT. The problem is compounded by ignoring the issue long enough that the critical inertia and mind space occupied by people that heard about the pandora years ago is lost. Many hekpful suggestions have been provided over the years yet here we are talking on the boards (which are nice boards btw!) with the same plan that amounts to a non plan instead of actively advertising and generating mind space in new customers.
In the same time we've got google groups, myspace 2.0, yahoo revamp, dropbox, twitter blew up and we've pretty much have these boards. Many of you frequent other forums I don't see how we can be such fans but no one flies a pandora banner as a sig on these different forums. Sexy up the pandora. Get creative with ads. Update the site. And sell the shit out of these things!
-O
Edit to add:
BTW being more forthright earlier would meant LESS cancellations. Communicating the issues directly and providing a plan of attack would have staved off many cancellations. Involving the community would have helped greatly. Allowing the perception that nothing is really being done and to continue with the sucks to be you attitude of these boards didn't help matters. I'm saying directly that this problem could have been solved long before it reached critical mass. Everyday that we do nothing to move forward worsens our position. Frankly relegating founding investors into old classic preorders while pressing forward in other endeavors is a slap in the face. An obligation is owed to us yet there has yet to be seen ANY PRIORITY IN FULFILLING IT.
If your device, your concerns and money suddenly are worth less than those that are just now jumping on the bandwagon with their orders being promptly fulfilled would you then understand our point of view? Would you then understand what it feels like to be a 3rd class pandora citizen who's best option is to wait, cancel or shut up. The priority being on shutting up of course.
