The current situation


Well, I sent my cancellation email. I was planning on waiting till the end of the year just to give it more time but I just don't think it's going to happen. I feel guilty doing it but I just don't have the faith i once did especially now since everything seems to be riding on the Kickstarter campaign. I'm still going to get a Pandora but it'll have to be through ED or ebay later on.

OK. I'm in the same boat. I'M ABOUT TO GRADUATE COLLEGE THAT'S HOW LONG IT'S TAKEN! I planned to use it for my engineering courses but...I was about to bite the bullet and get the icontrol pad thingy because it would be useful in my studies and projects. But I thought to myself "have you lost your damned mind?!" It's not like I don't have a looong history of experience about what to expect. For me it's not a good idea. For others I'm sure it's great. There's at least 5-6 reasons off the top of my head why not to fund it (which I won't recount here).


Now I only said all of that to illustrate I understand your frustration(I'm waiting for TWO Pandoras and my lady thinks I'm crazy to still believe they're coming. BTW obviously one was for her as she works as an IT specialist). If I could convince you not to cancel I would (I don't think you should cancel). However I'm not even going to try. OK on second thought how about you wait a few weeks to give the team enough time to develop some assurances for folks like you and myself?


This post was actually only going to be two sentances or so, but dammit I feel your pain.


My original question (post) for you was on a scale ranging from likely or probable to unlikely or you're dreaming, what would you need to see done so that you don't cancel. Give us the realistic option that you'd settle for, your dream option and something in between if you would be so kind. We need these types of data points so that the community can get a better grasp on what's going on and maybe get a handle on how to fix it.


-O
Honestly, I would probably stick with it if my order could be transferred over to ED's que but that's not possible since they are two separate companies. I would never sit here and bad mouth Craig or anyone else for that matter as these guys have gone through hell to make the Pandora and ICP a reality. Every member of the OP team have my deepest respect for what they've managed to accomplish, not many people would have the guts to ever try something like this!


But, on the other hand, the fact that the future seems to be uncertain, especially for those of us in Craigs que, doesn't sit well with me. It's been almost 3 years since I placed my order. I've been a member here since day one and a member on GP32X for a while prior and up until a couple of months ago I never even thought of cancelling. Like I mentioned, I was planning on giving it a couple more months to see how things go and then either cancel or upgrade to a 1ghz unit, and I was leaning towards upgrading, but even that doesn't seem to be a viable option at the moment. Craig said that he'd probably leave the scene if the KS campaign doesn't come through. Now, I don't know if that means no more ICP's or if that means no more of anything but I took it to mean the latter. Hopefully, that doesn't happen and things turn around, if anyone deserves some good fortune it'd Craig and ED!
 
I think those who are criticizing the business's operations are right to do so, but at the same time it's important to consider the situation that they have to live with. There's no way for us to know for sure how stressful their day-to-day operations are. But given that they have hundreds of outstanding orders, a business that seems to be on the verge of getting in the black, and customer morale that's plummeting, I can't imagine that it's easy to live with. How many of us have taken something this big on and managed to get it even halfway to fruition? I'd wager money that it's less than 1% of us. That doesn't excuse everything that's happened, of course. The ball's been dropped, repeatedly. But for the most part, the mistakes have been made more in trusting other companies than in faults of the OP team themselves.


The blog is what needs attention. The time spent writing posts here on the forums could be applied to the blog and generate a lot more attention. Forums are designed for discussion, not disseminating news. Twitter or Facebook may also be decent avenues for spreading news. I don't use those networks (and there are plenty others who don't), but they are popular media and can be used to reach a lot of people with very little effort. Forum posts should be used for more detailed news, or explanations that can't fit into a Tweet or Wall post. Assuming there's a half-decent blog engine in place, writing updates should be a cinch. Draft them in a text-file if you have to.


Why a blog? RSS feeds. Hook it up with some plugins (and/or Disqus) and it'll be a familiar platform for people to discuss the news. Linking to a forum works fine for those older folk who don't mind wading through a few topics, but most people don't have that patience. And like it or not, impatient people will like the Pandora, too. They're the ones the business needs to hold onto the most, so if news is delivered in a familiar, easily-digested format, from the hip, they will be more likely to stick by the company. Why? Transparency. You don't find it with "The Big Boys", and it's part of what makes the Pandora project interesting.


So, these suggestions are great and good, but who's gonna hook all this together? That all depends. Who's got the best web design skills and some spare time? Can someone from the community be elected to manage the technical side of the blog? A contract can be brought up to mitigate risks so malicious things can be met with legal action. As mentioned before, the most outstanding thing with the Pandora project is its transparency. So the news needs to be more accessible, more visible, more legible. Make it something to be proud of, for better or worse, instead of a side effect of being community-oriented.


I may be full of shit here, as I've been drinking a bit. But it makes sense to me, and it's pretty simple to install Wordpress.


That said, I'm gonna hold onto my desire for a Pandora because it's the platform I want to develop my first video game on. I believe it (and any successors) have great potential that can be realized once some quality games are released and more people get them in their hands.


</soapbox>
 
But for the most part, the mistakes have been made more in trusting other companies than in faults of the OP team themselves.

No. Yes, they've had some kicks to the guts, but it's the multitude of easily preventable clusterfusses that is the real issue.

Agree, there was no excuse for diverting the 1Ghz money to refunds- that was just a blatant lie to those who preordered the 1Ghz, and if it was absolutely necessary Craig should have asked the pre-orders concerned what he was planning to do with their money BEFORE using it just like it was his or something. That's just another nail in the coffin of bad customer relations.
 
I'm not going to address every point because your attention span can't take it. Not a slight just going by what you said in 1.

Nah, it's a matter of spare time... I can see you don't understand, so nevermind.

If I don't like this I shouldn't have gotten involved in a preorder scenario!
I missed the part in the pre-order terms of agreement that recieving my product would take over three years. Normally when I pre-order things it is with the assumption that a type of contract has been entered and will be filled in a timely fashion. In the event a catastrophy occurs I would be expected to be notified directly about the problem and the proposed solution with a request to cancel my pre-order or keep it at my own risk.

That is fair, but when you entered that contract was there any timeframe involved? And do you always make assumptions on contracts?

If I said that then of course it would be a false declaration. But I didn't. OBVIOUSLY its not problematic for OPT. It's problematic for the customer. I am talking from a customer's perspective after all. How dare you suggest it's our fault for not canceling earlier when we had every assurance that things were moving well in spite of certain hiccups and that a unit was only two months away?

Sorry, I misunderstood your inference in that statement then. And while I do stand by the notion that you could have cancelled anytime, I do also understand that responsibility lies with OPT as well. I'm not denying that, they have to accept that their choice of Circuit Co. turned out to be a poor one and take responsibility for that.


It's just that, from a business standpoint... well, what do you expect should happen? CC was the original point of failure to our understanding, so whose heads should roll? OPT did nothing intentionally wrong, and assuming there were incompetencies can you as a consumer sue to get your money back based upon the contract that you entered with them? Even if everyone had cancelled or could sue, would they get paid? Well, obviously not, to that last question.


So, "how dare I"... I'm not speaking from the standpoint of what Should Be ideally, we're way past that. I'm just talking reality, you choose what to do with your money and so shall every person be responsible for their own funds.

3. You're completely one-sided. You talk of "Pandora Knights" and really give no credit to OPT at all. As articulate as you are, you sound irrationally angry to me. Not that you don't have a right to be, but your reasoning is hard to take seriously.

Is all that you really did was defend OPT and declare it's the customer's fault? Why you must be a Pandora Knight to the rescue! No fault lies anywhere but the customer. To suggest otherwise is irrational.

Yes, I'm a Knight to the rescue. What the hell my posts will do for the Open Pandora... well, I guess you have some idea. I do not.


If your beef with my replies is that I don't have any vitriol for OPT, it's because in my regard they get quite enough of a daily dosage.


And no, that's a pretty stupid statement, to derive from my statements that the fault always lies entirely with the customer. The obvious context you conveniently ignored was "Depreciation of $$$ and Inability to Cancel Due to Closed E-mail Accounts". Did you intentionally leave that out?


And I'm gonna end my replies to this post here, all my statements probably haven't been exactly correct but I've tried to be reasonable.
 
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How dare you suggest it's our fault for not canceling earlier when we had every assurance that things were moving well in spite of certain hiccups and that a unit was only two months away?

What the hell are you talking about? our pandora are definately two month ago...


edit: doh, my bad, I ruinned the mame... it was two month away...
 
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How dare you suggest it's our fault for not canceling earlier when we had every assurance that things were moving well in spite of certain hiccups and that a unit was only two months away?

What the hell are you talking about? our pandora are definately two month ago...

So OPT should reimburse you in the refund to account for the depreciation of the cash? Yes or no.


That's where your little jibe here leads logically, since that was the original context of that conversation (of course removed by Overgauss and consequently neglected by yourself).


If you can't bother to read back in the thread like a responsible forumite, try this: it's OPT's responsibility your Pandoras are late, it's your responsibility your refund isn't worth as much as it originally was. EDIT: Of course, that's my opinion.
 
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If you can't bother to read back in the thread like a responsible forumite, try this: it's OPT's responsibility your Pandoras are late, it's your responsibility your refund isn't worth as much as it originally was. EDIT: Of course, that's my opinion.

I don't think so. I think if you bring this to a business lawyer, you would have a fairly good case to claim depreciation costs to be included in your refund, since the waiting period has been so long and the depreciation is far from being negligible over 3 years.


Unless it was mentioned anywhere at the time of purchase that the refunds would be only for the amount exactly paid - which I doubt, of course - .
 
If you can't bother to read back in the thread like a responsible forumite, try this: it's OPT's responsibility your Pandoras are late, it's your responsibility your refund isn't worth as much as it originally was. EDIT: Of course, that's my opinion.
Nah, it's a matter of spare time... I can see you don't understand, so nevermind.

And no, that's a pretty stupid statement, to derive from my statements that the fault always lies entirely with the customer. The obvious context you conveniently ignored was "Depreciation of $$$ and Inability to Cancel Due to Closed E-mail Accounts". Did you intentionally leave that out?

Frankly I don't even know what you're saying here. For instance when I said

Once you factor in exchange rates, depreciation of the USD and the fact some of the credit cards or accounts to purchase the units (in my case 2) are now closed, the refund option is problematic.
was nothing more than saying due to financial circumstances if one were to cancel now it would be at a non-trivial loss financially speaking. On top of that there's the opportunity cost that's lost not having your money for such a length of time. Getting a refund at any step of the way only detracts from the needed resources of the OPT. There's also the issue of closed credit cards and certain accounts that add to the problem. Now if you have the postion that I conveniently left that out because somehow it makes the user more at fault then you would be mistaken. I left it out because the point stood on its own and there remains much bigger fish to fry.

You claim it's stupid to gather that you think OP can do no wrong yet fully place all of the blame on the customer! Allow me to illustrate.

If your beef with my replies is that I don't have any vitriol for OPT, it's because in my regard they get quite enough of a daily dosage.
Here is where some of my beef comes from o' squire.

I accept the risk of loss (or gain, however unlikely) in my original investment when I get it back. If my gmail account closes and my refund becomes difficult or impossible, OPT may try to help but it quite frankly isn't logically their problem. If I don't like this I shouldn't have gotten involved in a preorder scenario!
When I ordered my crystal ball was in the shop but figuring out how to get people their money under special circumstances is as you say logically not their problem and its pretty much reasonable and expected for us to sit on a bowling ball if our situation changed in 3-4 years. Who does that anyway? What fool would change their situation after only 3 years. Hell I've got credit cards back from 1942 when they printed them on tin cans. Both durable and non-perishable I might add.

So it is not problematic for OPT, that is a false declaration. It may be distasteful or impossible for the customer to cancel, but in the end that's nobody's responsibility but their own. Had they cancelled earlier those factors wouldn't matter.
If I had the same sense to cancel, I would have had the same sense not to preorder. Screw good faith, hope and believing in the OPT!

Don't take me for cold -- I do want the customer to receive their product and be satisfied. The problems you lay out may be a challenge for OPT as they try to accommodate, but I cannot see how they are the moral or business responsibility of OPT. And don't take my statements as representing anyone's opinion but my own. I am speaking just from basic business concepts.
I am speaking just from basic business concepts.


I am speaking just from basic business concepts.


I am speaking just from basic business concepts.


I am speaking just from basic business concepts.


HA!

You're completely one-sided. You talk of "Pandora Knights" and really give no credit to OPT at all. As articulate as you are, you sound irrationally angry to me. Not that you don't have a right to be, but your reasoning is hard to take seriously.
The customers reasoning is at fault and irrational because an insufficient amount of credit is given to OPT. These comes from the what do you guys expect them to do about the CC issue go bankrupt? No. No one wants that however that issue doesn't explain all the other things that haven't been done to fix the problem. You see we've moved on and expect the team to do so as well. If your car breaks down and you can't get to work and when you get it fixed the shop totals it, I could see your boss giving you leeway for a few days. But if you can't show up for work on time or at all for 3-4 years because of something that happened outside of your control, your boss might ask if you've thought about taking the bus, or the rail, carpooling, riding a bike, catching a train, a cab, moving closer to work; he pays you on time and keeps you on because you have an awesome brain. Why not use that brain coupled with the numerous suggestions already given to you over the course of YEARS to fix your transportation issue?

You argued that it isn't an upgrade, then turned around and stated that customers paid for the upgrade with time. You are wrong; it is an upgrade because CC boards that can be recovered are not being sent to fulfill old preorders, when they could be. You are wrong again to complain of the time cost; this is a risk adopted by the customer at the time the preorder is placed. (see #2)
Again the customer is wrong. If I ordered a burger, a medium coke and small fries and didn't recieve it after 3 years. Meaning it took so long that a large coke is what we now call a medium and a medium fries is what we'd call a small, when the smaller sizes are no longer sold you'd call it an upgrade. Do you know that cokes in fast food joints used to come in 8oz cups? The old Pandoras don't exist anymore. Everyone is getting the same product at basically the same price counting inflation, depreciation and currency exchange rates. But the extra bonusy awesome part is that although we're all basically getting the same unit being a founding investers gives us the highly sought out (just look how many people are waiting in line for it) opportunity to wait vastly longer than everybody the fuck else. But it's cool. We've been upgraded.

EDIT: Just to clarify, you can complain of the waiting period as it draws longer, but in the context of your statements you said the wait was a cost to "pay for" the upgrade, which is at best misleading and at worst libel because when OPT said free they weren't referring to time (obviously).

Just as obviously I didn't mean that we litterally paid with a time cashiers check. The first of which to have been framed and hung up in Ed's office. Plus I already told you that that was advertising speech when the word upgrade was used and if you want to call it an actual upgrade then I'm going to use customer pissed off advertising speech to indicate that this "upgrade" was paid in full by time AND THE NATRUAL ADVANCES OF TECHNOLOGY THAT DON'T SEEM TO STOP PROGRESSING.

That is fair, but when you entered that contract was there any timeframe involved? And do you always make assumptions on contracts?
Again if there was any legitimate timeframe offered people like yourself would state many many times what the time frame stated. There are a few assumptions I make regarding contracts some of which happen to have precedence in law.


The person receiving my money operates under the assumption that it is legal tender.


I operate under the belief that once my money clears the bank, the vendor will make every effort to fulfil his end of the contract in a timely fashion.


If the vendor can not do so he should contact me to make arrangements for a refund if not outright cancel my order already while providing me the option to renew at a later date.


I assume the vendor will communicate directly with me in the event he or she is unable to fulfil their contract.


I expect that if a vendor makes NO MENTION of delays amounting to several years, allows for the possibility or provides an update status that this is the case, that my product is in good hands and should arrive in a timely fashion.


Lastly I believe certain issues weren't highlighted previously because it would mean that the investors would want their money back and destroy OPT. The problem is compounded by ignoring the issue long enough that the critical inertia and mind space occupied by people that heard about the pandora years ago is lost. Many hekpful suggestions have been provided over the years yet here we are talking on the boards (which are nice boards btw!) with the same plan that amounts to a non plan instead of actively advertising and generating mind space in new customers.


In the same time we've got google groups, myspace 2.0, yahoo revamp, dropbox, twitter blew up and we've pretty much have these boards. Many of you frequent other forums I don't see how we can be such fans but no one flies a pandora banner as a sig on these different forums. Sexy up the pandora. Get creative with ads. Update the site. And sell the shit out of these things!


-O


Edit to add:


BTW being more forthright earlier would meant LESS cancellations. Communicating the issues directly and providing a plan of attack would have staved off many cancellations. Involving the community would have helped greatly. Allowing the perception that nothing is really being done and to continue with the sucks to be you attitude of these boards didn't help matters. I'm saying directly that this problem could have been solved long before it reached critical mass. Everyday that we do nothing to move forward worsens our position. Frankly relegating founding investors into old classic preorders while pressing forward in other endeavors is a slap in the face. An obligation is owed to us yet there has yet to be seen ANY PRIORITY IN FULFILLING IT.


If your device, your concerns and money suddenly are worth less than those that are just now jumping on the bandwagon with their orders being promptly fulfilled would you then understand our point of view? Would you then understand what it feels like to be a 3rd class pandora citizen who's best option is to wait, cancel or shut up. The priority being on shutting up of course.
 
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Chiming in a bit late here... but the idea to raise funds essesntially to 'donate' to OPT for the *SOLE* purpose of clearing pre-orders Is something I would support.


My own funds are scarce, but there are many things for the Pandora I have been unable to experience due to having a severly limited data connection.


If someone were to organize a fundraiser and offer SD Cards loaded with a choice of software, I would be in.


In my mind it would work like this:


1) Somebody takes ownership and responsibilty for this - opening up a bank account and starting a thread detailing the reward tiers...


2) Community members make their pledges and state so in the thread so that all contributions can be recorded.


3) The people who are responsible for purchasing, loading, and shipping the SD Cards are first compensated by the funds recieved, before the cards are even purchased.


4) All remaining profits are then added to a pot untill a certain maneageable number of pre-orders have been covered, and then that pot is transfered to ED.


5) ED then sends out that number of Pandoras to the people highest up on the list.


6) Repeat from step 2.


This takes some of the pressure off Craig and would allow ED to help clear the pre-orders without losing any more money.


At the end of the day, not only would we have a slightly larger and happier community, but a portion of OPT's debt could be nullified... and thus bring us a bit closer to actually being able to realize the Pandora2.


Which we all want.


To me this is a 'win/win/win/win' situation. Craig, ED, Pre-orderers, and Funders would all benefit from the arrangement.


P.s. The reward tiers could be different size SD Cards. Even paid software such as is available on GOG.com could be listed among the optional software - with the asking price adjusted accordingly.


I'm sure there would be quite a few people happy to pay for the service of having SD Cards set up for them.


Even people who experience no difficulty doing it themselves might decided to go this route as a way to help with the current situation.


All we need are capable volunteers to take the reigns here.
 
Well, I sent my cancellation email. I was planning on waiting till the end of the year just to give it more time but I just don't think it's going to happen. I feel guilty doing it but I just don't have the faith i once did especially now since everything seems to be riding on the Kickstarter campaign. I'm still going to get a Pandora but it'll have to be through ED or ebay later on.

OK. I'm in the same boat. I'M ABOUT TO GRADUATE COLLEGE THAT'S HOW LONG IT'S TAKEN! I planned to use it for my engineering courses but...I was about to bite the bullet and get the icontrol pad thingy because it would be useful in my studies and projects. But I thought to myself "have you lost your damned mind?!" It's not like I don't have a looong history of experience about what to expect. For me it's not a good idea. For others I'm sure it's great. There's at least 5-6 reasons off the top of my head why not to fund it (which I won't recount here).


Now I only said all of that to illustrate I understand your frustration(I'm waiting for TWO Pandoras and my lady thinks I'm crazy to still believe they're coming. BTW obviously one was for her as she works as an IT specialist). If I could convince you not to cancel I would (I don't think you should cancel). However I'm not even going to try. OK on second thought how about you wait a few weeks to give the team enough time to develop some assurances for folks like you and myself?


This post was actually only going to be two sentances or so, but dammit I feel your pain.


My original question (post) for you was on a scale ranging from likely or probable to unlikely or you're dreaming, what would you need to see done so that you don't cancel. Give us the realistic option that you'd settle for, your dream option and something in between if you would be so kind. We need these types of data points so that the community can get a better grasp on what's going on and maybe get a handle on how to fix it.


-O
Honestly, I would probably stick with it if my order could be transferred over to ED's que but that's not possible since they are two separate companies. I would never sit here and bad mouth Craig or anyone else for that matter as these guys have gone through hell to make the Pandora and ICP a reality. Every member of the OP team have my deepest respect for what they've managed to accomplish, not many people would have the guts to ever try something like this!


But, on the other hand, the fact that the future seems to be uncertain, especially for those of us in Craigs que, doesn't sit well with me. It's been almost 3 years since I placed my order. I've been a member here since day one and a member on GP32X for a while prior and up until a couple of months ago I never even thought of cancelling. Like I mentioned, I was planning on giving it a couple more months to see how things go and then either cancel or upgrade to a 1ghz unit, and I was leaning towards upgrading, but even that doesn't seem to be a viable option at the moment. Craig said that he'd probably leave the scene if the KS campaign doesn't come through. Now, I don't know if that means no more ICP's or if that means no more of anything but I took it to mean the latter. Hopefully, that doesn't happen and things turn around, if anyone deserves some good fortune it'd Craig and ED!

Make this person's future certain!
 
Chiming in a bit late here... but the idea to raise funds essesntially to 'donate' to OPT for the *SOLE* purpose of clearing pre-orders Is something I would support.


My own funds are scarce, but there are many things for the Pandora I have been unable to experience due to having a severly limited data connection.


If someone were to organize a fundraiser and offer SD Cards loaded with a choice of software, I would be in.


In my mind it would work like this:


1) Somebody takes ownership and responsibilty for this - opening up a bank account and starting a thread detailing the reward tiers...


2) Community members make their pledges and state so in the thread so that all contributions can be recorded.


3) The people who are responsible for purchasing, loading, and shipping the SD Cards are first compensated by the funds recieved, before the cards are even purchased.


4) All remaining profits are then added to a pot untill a certain maneageable number of pre-orders have been covered, and then that pot is transfered to ED.


5) ED then sends out that number of Pandoras to the people highest up on the list.


6) Repeat from step 2.


This takes some of the pressure off Craig and would allow ED to help clear the pre-orders without losing any more money.


At the end of the day, not only would we have a slightly larger and happier community, but a portion of OPT's debt could be nullified... and thus bring us a bit closer to actually being able to realize the Pandora2.


Which we all want.


To me this is a 'win/win/win/win' situation. Craig, ED, Pre-orderers, and Funders would all benefit from the arrangement.


P.s. The reward tiers could be different size SD Cards. Even paid software such as is available on GOG.com could be listed among the optional software - with the asking price adjusted accordingly.


I'm sure there would be quite a few people happy to pay for the service of having SD Cards set up for them.


Even people who experience no difficulty doing it themselves might decided to go this route as a way to help with the current situation.


All we need are capable volunteers to take the reigns here.

I would pay into a monthly donation pot - if it wasn't just me paying in to help clear the existing preorder queue.
 
P.s. The reward tiers could be different size SD Cards. Even paid software such as is available on GOG.com could be listed among the optional software - with the asking price adjusted accordingly.
You want to be careful with the whole GOG.com redistribution thing - this is exactly where DREDD was going, see the thread on his repo for the fallout. He too also commented a while back about some sort of fundraiser (though he used the term kickstarter too) to cover the costs of the preorder.
 
It's probably best to put only freely redistributable stuff on the SD card, to avoid any legal hassle. Of course we could also ask people like Steven Craft to sell a few licenses of his game, perhaps even at reduced cost if they are fine with that, and get their permission to put it on such a "OPT support SD card". We should certainly not do anything like that without contacting those devs first.


We can start with the freely redistributable stuff though. Maybe an SD card that contains an extended version of SuperZaxxon 1.51 (an SD OS install with some additional packages installed, like all manpages, dev stuff like gcc, etc.) on one partition (and make it so that on first boot, the "enter user name" procedure starts - this should be easy), and a FAT partition (for easy access in Windows) with a pandora folder that contains a bunch of GPL'ed (or other Free licensed) games and software in PNDs. We could also collect some music that can be legally freely redistributed (e.g. CreativeCommons license), and set up some playlists in a selection of music players. Maybe some community members make music as a hobby (or profession, who knows) and want to share their stuff in this way. We could also add some shareware versions of DOS/Windows games for dosbox/qemu. If we have some significant amount of space left to fill we can add freely available big downloads like detailed world maps, dictionaries, a wikipedia snapshot, etc.


All it takes is 1 guy who constructs this SD card image (based on the input of the community), maybe someone to design a nice custom sticker to put on the card, and then essentially ED just has to add the "OPT support card" option to his shop (he already sells empty cards, and maybe there are some nearby community members who can help him to prepare the SD cards - it shouldn't be much work if you have lots of Pandoras available for parallel SD card copying). And then of course we all have to buy one :)
 
All it takes is 1 guy who constructs this SD card image (based on the input of the community), maybe someone to design a nice custom sticker to put on the card, and then essentially ED just has to add the "OPT support card" option to his shop (he already sells empty cards, and maybe there are some nearby community members who can help him to prepare the SD cards - it shouldn't be much work if you have lots of Pandoras available for parallel SD card copying). And then of course we all have to buy one :)

I think you are all dreaming a little :) Unless ED sells this card 10 times the price you would need to sell 20-30 of them for it to be able to pay for an original pre-order or a 1Ghz one. And see the rate of sales of pandoras in ED's shop ? It's quite slow. That's just not a good deal.


We all know what the solution is: to sell a lot more Pandoras. Anything else in between is just going to be small ideas not worth much financially speaking.
 
^ Fuck yeah _wb_.


And this awesome person/team should customize the shit out of XFCE to get it to a n00b-friendly level. I want eyecandy. I want Web 2.0
 
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All it takes is 1 guy who constructs this SD card image (based on the input of the community), maybe someone to design a nice custom sticker to put on the card, and then essentially ED just has to add the "OPT support card" option to his shop (he already sells empty cards, and maybe there are some nearby community members who can help him to prepare the SD cards - it shouldn't be much work if you have lots of Pandoras available for parallel SD card copying). And then of course we all have to buy one :)

I think you are all dreaming a little :) Unless ED sells this card 10 times the price you would need to sell 20-30 of them for it to be able to pay for an original pre-order or a 1Ghz one. And see the rate of sales of pandoras in ED's shop ? It's quite slow. That's just not a good deal.


We all know what the solution is: to sell a lot more Pandoras. Anything else in between is just going to be small ideas not worth much financially speaking.

I don't know exactly how much is needed to pay for an original pre-order, but it should be less than the difference between what they already paid and the current price of a new Pandora (440 EUR). I don't know how much the pre-orderers paid on average, but I'm guessing it would be more than 240 EUR. So less than 200 EUR is needed to get a pre-order delivered. Feel free to bring in more accurate numbers here.


Now I'm assuming the SD card is going to be a high-end card, not some cheap 4 GB card. ED sells 64 GB cards for 72,00 € in his shop. If he would charge 10 times the price, each one would fund 3-4 pre-orders, but that would be a ridiculously high price of course. I was thinking more like adding 50% or so to the price, or at most double it. Say 100 to 150 EUR. Assuming there is already a small profit on the original 72 EUR price, that would mean that every 2-3 cards fund 1 pre-order. That's not bad in my opinion.


It's not a miracle solution, but every small bit helps.
 
All it takes is 1 guy who constructs this SD card image (based on the input of the community), maybe someone to design a nice custom sticker to put on the card, and then essentially ED just has to add the "OPT support card" option to his shop (he already sells empty cards, and maybe there are some nearby community members who can help him to prepare the SD cards - it shouldn't be much work if you have lots of Pandoras available for parallel SD card copying). And then of course we all have to buy one :)

I think you are all dreaming a little :) Unless ED sells this card 10 times the price you would need to sell 20-30 of them for it to be able to pay for an original pre-order or a 1Ghz one. And see the rate of sales of pandoras in ED's shop ? It's quite slow. That's just not a good deal.


We all know what the solution is: to sell a lot more Pandoras. Anything else in between is just going to be small ideas not worth much financially speaking.

Have you considered that the rate of sales would increase? There's several reasons why this would be the case. New users would have pop in and go functionality. Their name would somehow be associated with the pandora legacy. Cool and easy to use peripherals, added no hassle functionality and customization options increase the desire for some to own gadget oriented devices.while lowering the barrier of entry fo self proclaimed noobs. Here I'll show you.

And this awesome person/team should customize the shit out of XFCE to get it to a n00b-friendly level. I want eyecandy. I want Web 2.0
Further additional income provides the OPT with more options because they have more money to do things. Turning down more money that is trivial in comparison to generate means more delays, more customer disatisfaction and shows that the team isn't really dynamic, innovative nor evolving with the times and the needs of their customers. New activity, advances, progression, with a robust and multilayered Pandora experience generates confidence in the product and the makers of it. Customers will more easily be able to recognize the capabilities of the unit and understand they're not just buying into a unit (that they will have to teach themselves how to use by reading obscure or hard to find posts) rather they are buying in an experience that is highly customizable by merely swapping a card. As they pick and choose what type of image they want on their card, they will be exposed to software and capabilities they might not have grasped fully by reading a wiki or looking at a repository.

To make it easier still for the buyer each card type should have a brief description of what's inside along with what type of card it is best suited for. Business, Language, Gamer (casual etc), hacker, musician, science, math advanced user, book reader, programmer, media. So on and so forth.


For instance if one image had stuff like a RPN calculator, Stellarium or what have you, maybe that's for those into science. You could have a small base of apps included in each category and go from there as an example.


I'm not sure where your numbers came from to judge the feasibility and worth of the proposed project. So I'll through out a few of my own as comparison. Also I would really like to hear what your solution is to the problem in general. You have this belief that if what ever we do is not in units of $700 then it's not worth the time to really even think about it. I don't agree with that position of not trying to generate income unless it's at least $700 a pop or so. Also you forgot about the fact that selling these cards in a vaccuum is not the plan. That's why tiers and incentives were mentioned early. While we're here talking about worthwile expenditure of time, consider the model I mentioned earlier where an internet shop is set that allows people to buy Pandora themed products.


Rightfully you might declare that they'd have to sell a lot of mugs, bumper stickers and t-shirts to really help financially. I agree, but you see that's not the point. The point is FREE FUCKING ADVERTISING THAT PAYS FOR ITSELF AND IS COOL TO OWN. Imagine how many people would see this cool pandora bumper sticker in the course of a month. How many visitors would it draw to this site that would normally never have heard of a pandora? Of those, how likely it is that at least one person will purchase one? A pandora is a curiousity that intrigues most people that first lay eyes to it. Gratz you've just become a living advertisment. As more such living advertisments come into being more people are likely to say "Oh I've heard of that, That's that pandora thingy!"


HOW DO YOU PROPOSE TO INCREASE SALES WITHOUT CREATING AWARNESS OF THE DEVICE? Don't you think that somehow somewhere a gaming blog might take notice of the new SD options, the tiers, the swag and make brief mention of it? If the pandora is not relevant it is nor relevant. There's a way to fix that but I'll skip that for now as we need to get back to talking numbers.


So let's talk business here. Your claim is that 20-30 SD cards would be needed to equal the price of a single ghz model. WHY IS THIS NECESSARY? Why not push out preorders when the money earned is that of the 600mhz unit? If sales of units are so important and anything less is worthless why not continue using the sales of 1ghz to push out preorders as well as using the extra income from this kickstarter to do the same? Lets say for each 1ghz sale you provide 1 preorder. Let's call this rate X. Let's say the sale of 20 SD cards provides a preorder at the rate .5X. This rate could be higher or lower. Just using it to show a principle. So you're saying since .5X is way less than X we should ignore it settleing on the preferred rate of X. Well if we did it that way 2*X = 2 preorders. For every 1ghz model sold my way we'd earn 1 and a half units. 2*1.5X=3 units! Poor example perhaps but I hope you see what I mean.


Now let's talk cash. If were are careful we can get a Sandisc 32gb class 4 micro SD card (adapter cost 0.85 cents) for $19! A Sandisc 16gb micro SD cost $5.85! I'm using $700 as the unit cost (correct me if I'm wrong or work the problem yourself). Now it takes 20 cards at $35 each to equal $700 (700/20=35).


For now let's just say we seel the card for $35. That's around $16 bucks of profit a pop for the 32gb and $29 for the 16gb. Now for a 600mhz unit its 464/20= $23.2 as the cost of the card. So how many need to be sold to buy a 600mhz unit for the 32gb card we need to sell 29(464/profit(16)=29. For the 16 gb we have to sell 16 cards for the 600mhz or 32 for the 1ghz..


That's at the $35 dollar pricepoint. What if we reach 50, 60, 70 or more! using a concervative price of $50 16gb profit = $44! 10.5 cards need to be sold for 600mhz and 16 cards soldfor the 1ghz. For the 32gb model 15 cards sold for the 600mhz and 22.6 32 gb cards need to be sold.


There's some 3-4 thousand Pandora owners. Send them an email with a slick graphic and presentation and ask how many of them would be interested. Offer SD bundles for new purchases. I'd rather buy a psp bundle that came with a game instead of one that came without one. Cool! I just got this awesome gift from xmas now all I have to do is figure out what, how, where to install stuff to make it to my likeing. Would you buy a psp if it didn't come with any games, and the only way to get them was to turn yourself into a hacker and you had to compile your own shit just to make sure it runs? That's what the pandora is to some people. It's like hacking or your grandma complaining about getting on the google.
 
i have proposed similar stuff on the german board a few days ago. starting topic was the bad ct review. i was plssed but tried to braintsorm a bit as well.


my conclusion was: bad marketing and lack in proper communication, for the bad sales and for the bad review. bad communicating with the tester of the magazine, with the presentation and explanation of the pandora towards him (it seems to me it was presented to him as a linux geek device and it was judged like that) - but also towards the community and the lack of proper marketing in generall.


i also gave the (non active german) community (in germany) a big part of the fault - i know, you will burn me for that.. they could have been, and still be, far more activ. i also see a big lack in guiding the community to productive help, like asking if someone professional could take care of the image and the marketing, building up a focused marketing strategy and accesible information for interested people. or like you say, finding someone who helps with the emails or makes the sd cards (premade sd cards seem to be an older idea on the german board. i may see the problem in producing them, but still, if others could handle it, als manually, one by one, still a good idea - together with the proper marketing, as you here dont need it).


i proposed to lay by sd-cards with software and games from the repo, so the pandora is ready to go. idealy to add also emulators where possible, like quemu with some demo-versions of games, or scumm with some free adventure llike beneath a steel sky.


for the image/identity, imagine a colorful picture full of retro games, from the c64 to the psx till modern homebrew, maybe an art-collage (it is just an example), where the pandora is shown for the big variety of gaming choices, with the message: play the games of your childhood, play the best games ever which you have missed - setting a strong focus on nostalgy. (and the highly optimized emulators, the neon chip, no soundlag compared to android systems (as far as i understand it), ...)


on the other side of this picture, lets say the picture fades, it goes over to the "ultra-mini pc" with linux dektop, showing it as a multimedia machine, as an organizer, as a device to screw around and as a prof. it tool (remote administration, some users in the german forum say they work with it at their workplace).


on the website there could be two pages, one showing the game nostalgia, the other showing the ultra mini pc.


also that the device is unique can be put more to focus as well as the long batterie life, and that you can easily switch it. 24 hours power on the go.


put away all the technical comparisions on the website, users can use tabs to compare, and give more explaining infos, awake wishes. use nice pictures everywhere which show applications, the organizer, the webbrowser, waching a movie laying on the couch, and so on. use them a lot. dont use too much videos, the trailer is good enough, pull that out from the place below the technical comparisions and put it somewhere more on the top. this is a good video and shows all very nicely.


instead of letting people mail the ct write a counterstatment yourself (or someone from the community) explaining the little flaws as well as the strongs (good preparation work for the new info-pages as well ; ) : P )


just my two cents, as you would say.


ah, and for your ideas in recovering the sales of the pandora and the debts with the sd-card thing, im afraid to say as well i think you are dreaming with that. people wont buy them like you think, they will feel more like to be mucked for paying for free stuff. and then lets be realistic, most stuff on the repo does no qualify for the special topics someone of you suggested. i think it would be already difficult to fill one 4gb sd card with usefull programms, and not just overload it with crap. beware of the sales, before you say "your" numbers would work. you also cant take money for the freeware itself, just for the work of making a compelition, a tokken so to say. if you want to ask more because there is (free) software on it, you need to get it gifted for the cause, legaly spoken, so far as i know.. but all in all, the sales will not be there, ask the 3-4k pandora owners if they would, that could be done. but beware what impression this makes to potential new customers, im not sure if good (kinda like supporting software development) or bad (to much to pay on every end). btw. i suggested to promote the pandora as well as the console with no further costs, that would speak a bit against it, also if just for the first impression.


best regards,


vic20
 
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