Right, let's start recovering this?


craigix

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Firstly, thanks for all your (kind) emails.


As a start I've built six 600mhz units in the silver cases, they have the new nubs, new LCD cable etc.


Fully working, ready to go.


$299 each. PM me.


Many of you are offering to upgrade to the 1Ghz to try to help. This will help get things moving again, and will keep it moving until we get our tax back on those 100 units, at which point things should be back in gear.


Now, the obligatory FAQ to try to stop the same (unhelpful) things being said time and time again:


Q) Why did you refund those orders for big money?


A) Because we are required to by law. It was either potential court action or refund. Court action could freeze and liquidate the company very quickly, there have been bizarre situations where companies have been made bankrupt over £100 debts by just ignoring them.


Q) But why didn't you negotiate with them to try to stop them happening?


A) We did to an extent, but if someone wants their money, you have to give it back to them. In some cases we have negotiated with people for months before they threaten us with legal action. It's not nice to end up in that situation, and I don't think it leaves a very good impression. If we had just refunded right away they might have come back one day, but now they won't.


Q) What now?


Right, I'l like to go ahead with the planned 1Ghz publicity we have prepared. From these sales we will do a 1 for 1. Each unit sold will cover a preorder.


But remember, there will still be cancelled orders, returned units and issues while doing all this.


But that promotion should clear the 1Ghz backlog.


Then we're back to clearing original orders.


That's it, simple as that.


Then, next month we get the tax refund and we have a buffer zone once more.


That's all we can offer right now, let me know if you think we should do something else.


PS considering offering some kind of cheaper upgrade deal for 10 days, good, bad idea?
 
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ShleeDragon

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We all want the Pandora to succeed. We all want them to create the Pandora 2 in the future... Craig is in charge of dealing with his business. so what can I do?


The best thing the community as whole can do is help the iCP2 reach the goal.. because if the units are built/shiped. This should generate some good feels and drive sales of the Pandora - which should help with the recovery too.


So let's make sure the iCP2 reaches it goal...
 

Timstertoo

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Good idea to start a new thread. If you offer the upgrade to 1Ghz for the price of the original to premium (something like €120 or so?) I'll whip out my credit card and pay as soon as it's offered and will back the Kickstarter before it runs out. Promise.


Off topic but not unimportant. A lot of the other kickstarters have a couple of expensive (like 3x 10k or so) pledge levels (we'll fly you in, have dinner with you, you can solder your own Pandora and you can drive my Leaf back to the airplane yada yada) so in case the amount is almost made you can have someone (obviously not you considering the T&C ;) ) buy them and secure the money. I'm pretty sure you can suss out a way to get a guardian angel to do that and not worry about the money. (nudge nudge, wink wink, snap snap)
 

PokeParadox

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Well I think communication is key, and you are doing that right now. Also try and keep positive! :)


I still want to grab a 1GHz unit and I will put my order through your store when the time comes.
 

elwing

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nice move... but once again I repeat my question, who are you and what have you done to CraigiX?
 

Exophase

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Why are you selling 6 600MHz Pandoras for $299 instead of sending them to outstanding preorderers? Is there something about them that invalidates them for this purpose? Are they refurbs?


You should offer a cheaper upgrade to people who have old unfulfilled first-batch preorders, which would make them more likely to take that instead of asking for a refund and make them feel less neglected. A 10 day time limit on that would be kind of crappy.


If you need a loan that you can absolutely guarantee you can repay in a month or two I may be able to help you.
 
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EvilDragon

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Why are you selling 6 600MHz Pandoras for $299 instead of sending them to outstanding preorderers? Is there something about them that invalidates them for this purpose? Are they refurbs?

Well, he needs money to pay for the 1GHz units, sending those to old customers won't help here. So it makes sense.
 

Awakening

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I ordered a batch 1 unit quite some time ago. Then I payed for a 1GHz upgrade. I was hoping to have it by now, and it was quite expensive.


One solution I see to this is:


1. ED get a bunch of 1GHz units produced for Craig


2. Craig sell half of them


3. Craig use that money to buy all these 1GHz from ED


4. Craig send half of the units to the new 1GHz customers


5. Craig send the other half to 1GHz preorders


6. Do the same with batch 1 preorders


I hope ED have some 1GHz Pandoras right now or incomming that Craig can do this with.
 
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Wrath Of Khan

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Why are you selling 6 600MHz Pandoras for $299 instead of sending them to outstanding preorderers? Is there something about them that invalidates them for this purpose? Are they refurbs?


You should offer a cheaper upgrade to people who have old unfulfilled first-batch preorders, which would make them more likely to take that instead of asking for a refund and make them feel less neglected. A 10 day time limit on that would be kind of crappy.


If you need a loan that you can absolutely guarantee you can repay in a month or two I may be able to help you.
Offering Craig a loan. Now thats solidarity exo and very kind.
 

ghostpatch

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Awakwning said:
I ordered a batch 1 unit quite some time ago. Then I payed for a 1GHz upgrade. I was hoping to have it by now, and it was quite expensive.

One solution I see to this is:


1. ED get a bunch of 1GHz units produced for Craig


2. Craig sell half of them


3. Craig use that money to buy all these 1GHz from ED


4. Craig send half of the units to the new 1GHz customers


5. Craig send the other half to 1GHz preorders


6. Do the same with batch 1 preorders


I hope ED have some 1GHz Pandoras right now or incomming that Craig can do this with.
not possible! explanation:

EvilDragon said:
Some quick additions from me:
The issue with these refunds really hit at a bad time. I've got no problems sending Craig units before he pays them - the issue is: Thanks to these refunds he didn't even have enough left to send me the money for the first 70 units I sent him.


If I sent more units to him, I would've run into financing issues myself - and in this case, I would be personally liable for that with everything I own in my life (try to explain the government you send a company more Pandoras even though it hasn't even paid the last bill...)


I'm currently gathering money to be able to pay the next big bill myself: 140K EUR is needed to start with the next 1000 Pandoras. It's exactly that time, so I didn't have money left to send more units to Craig.
and

EvilDragon said:
I'm not sure yet how exactly we'll work it out and when I'll be able to send 1GHz units to Craigs customers yet. I need to recalculate, as these 20K EUR are now missing in my planning, and that's quite a lot of money.
I need to be able to pay the next big GC bill in October, so I need to check first how many of those 1GHz units I need to sell to new customers to be able to get enough money before I know how many I can spare.


The bad thing is that not only those 20K are lost for me - potential customers also are lost, since they paid to Craig already and didn't get their unit yet.


These could order from me right now, but I'm sure they wouldn't want to pay twice.


So yes, I WILL help you all as good as I can, but I was really depending on that money for a smooth ride and that's a bit of a letdown for me.


I'm not in a bad financial situation right, don't worry, but I cannot send out free 1GHz units until I made at least those 20K back.
 
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notaz

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Q) But why didn't you negotiate with them to try to stop them happening?


A) We did to an extent, but if someone wants their money, you have to give it back to them. In some cases we have negotiated with people for months before they threaten us with legal action. It's not nice to end up in that situation, and I don't think it leaves a very good impression. If we had just refunded right away they might have come back one day, but now they won't.
While I do believe substantial number of cases were like this, IMO good part of it was your own fault because of posting things like this multiple times and you should admit your mistake.

If you need a loan that you can absolutely guarantee you can repay in a month or two I may be able to help you.
If I were you I wouldn't do that.
 
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silversmurfer

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PS considering offering some kind of cheaper upgrade deal for 10 days, good, bad idea?

As long as they join the queue at the end of those of us who have already paid the higher price for upgrading to the 1Ghz unit already and are still waiting...


Can we get a straight answer - how many 1Ghz upgrade units does Craig still have to ship? There's a lot of confusion about queue numbers etc?
 

batfastad

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Thanks again for the update! ;)

Good idea to start a new thread. If you offer the upgrade to 1Ghz for the price of the original to premium (something like €120 or so?) I'll whip out my credit card and pay as soon as it's offered

Me too! Seriously! :D


The current price to upgrade from a classic pre-order (Nov 2009) to a 1GHz is currently too much for me to justify - the upgrade cost itself is more than I originally paid.


If it was another £110 or so, offered as a favour for the old pre-orderers, then I would certainly pay it.


Hopefully that would give you additional funds, right now, and clear a bit of the old queue.
 

rohezal

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Ok 299$ for a CC pandora. I am pretty sure you can sell them, six times. This are 8% of the money needed. This is a start. So its around 88 pandoras you need to sell to get the 20K € back. There are enough parts from CC left to build 700 pandoras. So you can try to build and sell 88 pandoras for 300$ in the next weeks. Sounds hard but possible.


If you don't succeed and everyone starts to calm down and think about the situation, they realise that they just have to wait a few weeks, and every will work again automaticly.


You will get the money from taxes back. And ED has paid the bill in october and if he is a very nice guy, he maybe sends you some 1 ghz pandoras which you can pay later from your sellings.


So everything is ok. There is an annoying but not dangerous event. And people think without a good reason, that the project is going to die. But this is simply not true. It is just a delay of a few weeks. Nothing new in the pandora world^^.


Edit:


PS: I think it is very nice of Exo to offer craig a loan.
 
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Chance1234

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I mentioned this in a previous thread, but as it has come up again;


I am an original Pre -order from Oct 2008. I have yet to receive my pandora. I would be more than happy to pay to upgrade to a 1Ghz model but agree with batfastard the current price is too much. If CraigX, as mentioned is considering offering a discount ; one other important factor as well would be that if I paid the upgrade, I would have to have a guaranteed delivery date. If that delivery date wasn't met, then that would be the end of my patience with the project.
 

Exophase

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Well, he needs money to pay for the 1GHz units, sending those to old customers won't help here. So it makes sense.

However, if only recently 100 people asked for refunds, and at least some reasonable number are actual order cancellations and not just people sending in their broken Pandoras and demanding money back, then why would that number suddenly stop? I'm sure at least some number of people would not cancel if they could just get their unit sent. Furthermore, if some of those people ARE sending in their broken Pandoras isn't it cheaper to give them one of these six as a replacement than giving them a refund? Or are they actually entitled to a FULL refund instead of a replacement, because I find that hard to believe.


Obviously I don't know the law, much less the fine details - but if it really is the case that you get a full refund if your device breaks any time within 6 years then that's bullshit of the highest caliber. So basically, the X years you did use the unit for when it was working fine were now given to you completely for free, because with a new unit you get X more years out of it? If you get a cash refund it should be prorated linearly based on how long you used it vs what the "expected use time" is. You send it in 3 years after you got it when the coverage period was 6 years? Then you only get half back. Is Craig doing anything like this, or there seriously no precedent for such a thing?

notaz said:
If I were you I wouldn't do that.

Well if he's getting tax money soon there should be no risk right? :rolleyes: It'd certainly be a nice big test for them.
 
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Dead1nside

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Craig, you unilaterally introduced a price premium for 1Ghz units, I wasn't happy about that. You're well within your rights to have done this, but I don't think you accounted for the animosity among the old preorders that this may cause.


I paid for the upgrade a month ago now, and expected to receive it within a couple of weeks, that situation has changed and that is why I have already asked for a refund, which while I understand will compound the situation, I believe is the only way to proceed.


If you were thinking about discounts for the loyalty of your old preorders, rather than saying every one of us costs you money (because of your losses), then maybe you wouldn't have had so many cancellations and refunds. You should have thought about this originally. We have been, and are, a very understanding customer base, but your lack of communication is abysmal. You may have promised to give the kickstarter 110%, but haven't you done the same for the Pandora?


I don't want you to go bust, nor do any of us, but really, you could have handled many of these situations a lot better. While I admire that you still are carrying on, you seem to not account for the loyalty of some of your long-suffering customers, and then suddenly expect some more understanding.


We're not happy. So please, make your mind up about things quickly. If you want to offer discounts to old preorders to upgrade to 1Ghz units then great, please give me partially my upgrade fee back, give me a realistic date of delivery, and I'll consider it. I have had enough of waiting.


Thank you.
 

calc84maniac

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I agree with the posts above about being interested in a cheaper 1GHz upgrade option. $200 might be good, since that is the price difference between the current 600MHz and 1GHz models after all ($700 - $500 == $200). In addition, this implicitly removes an old order from the queue just like a new 1GHz order would.
 

batfastad

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one other important factor as well would be that if I paid the upgrade, I would have to have a guaranteed delivery date. If that delivery date wasn't met, then that would be the end of my patience with the project.

I would agree. I really want a Pandora. Really really want :D


But I'm afraid I'm just not in a position to pay the current upgrade price. So my only option is to wait and wait for my original order and it's my understanding that Pandora Ltd will make a loss on my unit when I do that.


If you did decide to offer an incentive to old pre-orderers to upgrade then I hope you will e-mail it to those in the queue. I don't check the forums that often and there must be many that never check the forums.
 
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