A further update on preorders (18th of November 2012)


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Godmil

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::EDIT:: i dont even see a link to order from his site. is he not even selling them?? i mean there is no link to order from his shop at openpandora.org

At the moment only ED and Ithic are selling new units. Craig has to get his back orders sorted out before he'll be able to afford to restock at the moment. Though lots of people have been suggesting that he does this Dropshipping thing with ED where Craig collects the order, the production cost goes to ED who then ships it to the customer and Craig keeps the profits (for financing preorders and refunds), but I think there are still discussions behind the scenes about that.
 
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EvilDragon

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Right now I'm selling units while Craig tries do use his contacts and the new website with videos to sell as many as possible.


The profit of these sold units is once again shared to fulfill the remaining preorders (pretty much like it was before the 1GHz preorders happened).
 

b1llygo4t

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i guess your right. omission of information is not admission of guilt. he must have a good reason to keep information from other people
 

hdonk

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so craig is the sole owner of OP ltd? and please read this link http://www.actionfra...isappropriation

If you'd read that, you'd have noticed that all the situations described are illegal actions. (Embezzlement, false invoices, etc...)


None of what Craig has done is illegal.


Craig's two problems are a ) cash flow, and b ) Circuit Co (and other) failing to deliver on their (paid) contracts.
 
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b1llygo4t

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for some reason i thought you (ED) was partial owner of OP ltd. so if craig cant pull all this together OP is shot then?
 

WorldTripping

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so craig is the sole owner of OP ltd? and please read this link http://www.actionfra...isappropriation

No, that is *utterly* incorrect, we are not talking about stealing pencils from your employer. Please stay away from Google.


I'll rephrase my reply simplistically..


Craig looked into his magic tin of cash and saw it wasn't very full.


He had a big bunch of angry people with pitchforks and torches wanting refunds, and he had kindly ED who wanted paying for the 70 magic Pandoras.


Craig decided to pay the people with pitchforks before they burnt his house down.


That is not fraud, that is a cashflow problem, and it most certainly isn't illegal.
 

WizardStan

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for some reason i thought you (ED) was partial owner of OP ltd. so if craig cant pull all this together OP is shot then?
They're two different companies selling the device. If Craig goes out there shouldn't be anything preventing EvilDragon from continuing to build more.


Example: Hostess USA recently filed for bankruptcy but my Canadian flow of Twinkies continues uninterrupted because, while they have the same name and are producing basically the same product, Hostess USA and Hostess Canada are two different companies.


OpenPandora LTD and OpenPandora GMD (or whatever the correct acronym is) are the same but different.
 

b1llygo4t

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so craig is the sole owner of OP ltd? and please read this link http://www.actionfra...isappropriation

No, that is *utterly* incorrect, we are not talking about stealing pencils from your employer. Please stay away from Google.


I'll rephrase my reply simplistically..


Craig looked into his magic tin of cash and saw it wasn't very full.


He had a big bunch of angry people with pitchforks and torches wanting refunds, and he had kindly ED who wanted paying for the 70 magic Pandoras.


Craig decided to pay the people with pitchforks before they burnt his house down.


That is not fraud, that is a cashflow problem, and it most certainly isn't illegal.

i was under the impression that there was money unaccounted for. mostly due to reading speculation due to the lack of transparency while sifting through piles of threads trying to catch up.
 

b1llygo4t

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for some reason i thought you (ED) was partial owner of OP ltd. so if craig cant pull all this together OP is shot then?
They're two different companies selling the device. If Craig goes out there shouldn't be anything preventing EvilDragon from continuing to build more.


Example: Hostess USA recently filed for bankruptcy but my Canadian flow of Twinkies continues uninterrupted because, while they have the same name and are producing basically the same product, Hostess USA and Hostess Canada are two different companies.


OpenPandora LTD and OpenPandora GMD (or whatever the correct acronym is) are the same but different.

so the two OP companies are seperate from the stores?
 

WizardStan

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i was under the impression that there was money unaccounted for
There is money technically unaccounted for: the tax refund Craig said was coming at the end of November.


3 or 4 weeks have passed since he said he was supposed to get it and he hasn't mentioned anything about it. Theories currently include not actually receiving it, it was lower than expected, he sent it all out as refunds, or he used it to pay for his girlfriends schooling. The last one was suggested as a joke.

so the two OP companies are seperate from the stores?
I'm not entirely sure on that. There could be Craig's OpenPandora company and the GP2X company store, similarly ED could have two companies (Actually I think that one is true, as far as I know EvilDragon's store is distinct from his Pandora production company) but either way it doesn't matter: EvilDragon and Craig are distinct entities able to produce and sell consoles individually. EvilDragon is being Nice Guy #1 by going above and beyond his legal requirements to help supply Craig's store and past pre-orders with Pandoras.
 

b1llygo4t

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thank you wizardstan, that clears up alot, and thank you ED for trying to cover for craigs preorders. I was under the impression that ED and Craig both owned OpenPandora and independently distributed pandoras through their own shops. i realize some of my comments seem ignorant and angry, but i reserve that right because information is so scattered and vague and craig acts how people do when they are ripping you off. he points blame at others and hides things defensibly and wont get back to you or update you about what he owes you. hes acting shady.


and seeing craig working on plans for a pandora 2 really got my goat. he should be out donating plasma or something to fulfill these preorders not launching and designing new products.
 

Fzero

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perhaps I read something wrong some years back when I ordered, but I was pretty sure that my money to fund my pre order Pandora was including some risk on my part, that it was a bit of a gamble of faith into OP Ltd.?
 

klapse

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I'm not sure who was contractually responsible these or many other items. The board layout, stencil design, choice of solder paste and flux (etc.) can all effect yield on a product on a manufacturing line. There are so many other items that should be considered in manufacturing a product.


I'm not going to point fault as Ed, Craig, or CC. I don't have enough information to make an educated determination of fault.

Oh Ed revealed more detail of how the CC fiasco went down. Craig and Ed repeatedly contacted CC via email about how board population was going and CC kept saying there was progress and that thousands of boards were finished. Then it turned out CC had lied about populating the boards and had let them sit around for months. When they finally did populate the boards, the oxidized contacts led to a 25pct failure rate. Ed says he has the emails to prove they were lied-to.

I've been off the boards for a little bit and this thread has exploded. So what is the real status? Has Craig bailed or is this the same old conjecture? All I know is that I have not received an acknowledgement of my last request from Craig.

Craig now has to wait for upgrades and sales of new units from Ed's shop to pay for building and shipping his oustanding preorders. These will go out in small batches every few weeks. He is working on promoting the Pandora (next to his ICP2 project).
 

DreamWave

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Wow... 41 pages of this... thing...


Please. Stop. This. Madness. Already.


Would be better to write some new thread with official "recap of 41 pages of crap"-statement and just close this one for good... The only people who bother to read all this are probably the bored ones... And no, I didn't read the last page... And yes, I am in Craig's queue and indeed, I still just wish this thread to stop already...
 

Grench

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Right now I'm selling units while Craig tries do use his contacts and the new website with videos to sell as many as possible.


The profit of these sold units is once again shared to fulfill the remaining preorders (pretty much like it was before the 1GHz preorders happened).

That sounds like a reasonable plan. I hope he can drive oodles and gobs of sales to your site.


Have the two of you considered trying B2B sales? For example to internet service providers to equip their installers with Pandora consoles? It can configure a router - even to the point of re-imaging the OS on the router, test it both wired and wifi AND fit into a pouch on the installer's tool belt. Those sales are harder to get, but could be dozens of units per sale.


We're all still trying to help.
 

Tenka

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Wow... 41 pages of this... thing...


Please. Stop. This. Madness. Already.


Would be better to write some new thread with official "recap of 41 pages of crap"-statement and just close this one for good... The only people who bother to read all this are probably the bored ones... And no, I didn't read the last page... And yes, I am in Craig's queue and indeed, I still just wish this thread to stop already...

The bored ones, the crafty ones, the romantically interested ones... It's simpler just saying the other people though. Why don't you want other people to talk about this? If you don't feel like reading through all of it yourself, someone will surely sum it up later as fast as news travels here. Why do you want the exciting conversations of other people to stop?


If it's because you're afraid of long threads scaring away new buyers then I understand. I say closing real threads ever isn't very honest community of a move though.
 

pmprog

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Either that, or the fact this thread is so far derailed from the original thread topic. They don't have to be closed, maybe just split and moved to "Offtopic"
 

klapse

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Discussion should focus on how to sell new units to clear the queue, IMO.
 
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