A further update on preorders (18th of November 2012)


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_wb_

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This thread is going nowhere, the same kind of stuff is getting repeated over and over again, hundreds of times. Almost 40 pages now. I get it, people want to complain about Craig's lack of transparency etc, but if you think that a group effort consisting of filling 40 forum pages with whining, complaints and threats is somehow going to improve the situation, you're probably wrong. Please do something more productive.
 

jus1982b

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This thread is going nowhere, the same kind of stuff is getting repeated over and over again, hundreds of times. Almost 40 pages now. I get it, people want to complain about Craig's lack of transparency etc, but if you think that a group effort consisting of filling 40 forum pages with whining, complaints and threats is somehow going to improve the situation, you're probably wrong. Please do something more productive.

Well this thred showed me I am not the only one getting false promises, that alone made me feel better. anyone else?
 
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jus1982b

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1) 700 classic Pre-orders to fulfill +


2) 70 1Ghz to fulfill and


...


Assuming this (may/may not be the case). ED has said it will take 190 new Pandora sales to make the money needed to fulfill the 70 1Ghz orders. Assuming the same rate to clear the 700 pre-orders,...

It's not *quite* as bad as that I think. Firstly the 700 number I believe includes the 70 1Gig preorders, also ED said something along the lines of the 70 1Gig's being effectively paid for by recent sales (which didn't involve any free units going to Craig) and that new free units would start shipping to Craig this month.

Oh FYI my 1ghz que number is 160 so more than doubble 70... just sayin
 

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unless *he


* intentionally does something fraudulent, illegal, or reckless that causes harm to the company or to someone else, or


so what happened to the 70 or so pandoras that.... donations... ect.

Well, he never did anything fraudulent or illegal intentionally.


If a company like CC doesn't manage to deliver the PCBs they're supposed to produce, it's not the fault of OpenPandora Ltd.


They are responsible for it (and lost a lot of money), but they have done nothing illegal or fraudulent.


The donations are handled by myself, and I can tell you what they're being used for: The next 4 units are funded and will ship soon :)


(I really need to upgrade that thread... hope to find time for this during christmas).


About that 70 Pandoras... well, he HAS to pay for refunds, that's for sure.


It might've been a good idea to talk to everyone asking for a refund and explaining them that currently profit is being made with the 1GHz Pandoras, so it would be great if they could just hold on a bit. So he could've saved that money, paid for the Pandoras, get and pay the next ones, etc. while building up capital for these refunds.


Instead he refunded and hoped I can afford sending him more (which I couldn't).


While that wasn't a good idea and could've been handled better by him, I doubt it's illegal or fraudulent, as all he did with that money was paying refunds - and that's something he had to do legally.


OpenPandora Ltd. should be completely separated from Craig personally.
 

DrLGR

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...


A UK limited company is *limited* in it's liability to what the *company* owns, assets, cash etc.


...

Maybe this will clear things up a smidge. No one is going to be able to successfully sue Craig or force Craig into bankruptcy. The only thing anyone could even TRY to do is have some affect on OpenPandora, LTD. Craig runs and owns the company, but he and the company are separate entities.


Suing, and winning, the company would entitle you to get compensation from the company. The company is significantly more in debt than any assets it may have (my conjecture from following what is going on), therefore you would win the case and get nothing. Suing, and losing, would result in nothing expect significant fees on both sides.


Trying to sue Craig himself would likely go nowhere, and potentially get the accuser in hot water for frivolous or predatory, or harassing, or whatever it wants to be called. But, I don't know how the legal system would handle this. I've no experience with the UK system.


Take all with a grain of salt.
 
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b1llygo4t

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oh. hey look. we can petition to FORCE craig into bankruptcy https://www.gov.uk/c...uptcy-petitions

Mate, what is your problem? Ok, you plonked down some cash 4 years ago nothing has turned up, I get it. You hear that there's not much chance of getting your Pandora soon and you can't get your cash back immediately. I get that. But you honestly want to fuck up someone's life (being bankrupt has repercussions even if Craig's assets are safe)? Is that it? You want the satisfaction that you reached out from wherever you're from and fucked up another man's life? For what, a niche piece of plastic and electronics that didn't turn up?


And you wonder why you get called a dick?

its not about ruining the guys life, at this rate he will do it on his own. and why would i want OP to file bankruptcy when craig is the one that is running it into the ground? its about getting our money back or the item we paid for. face it, the guy is cannibalizing OP.


if he is taking money from an ltd company to pay for other companies or personal life thats called asset misappropriation fraud (embezzlement). where did all the money go that was supposed to go toward preorders?
 

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^


The money went to 1000 dead boards sitting in Texas. We understand you want to hang the chicken and fry the egg. Either way, you'll get no chicken, and no egg.
 

b1llygo4t

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The money went to 1000 dead boards sitting in Texas. We understand you want to hang the chicken and fry the egg. Either way, you'll get no chicken, and no egg.

im talking about the money from the 70 pandoras that was supposed to help pay for my preorder.


::EDIT:: i dont even see a link to order from his site. is he not even selling them??
 
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TrashyMG

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where did all the money go that was supposed to go toward preorders?

For one the money was used to directly pay for the original pandoras.. what was unexpected was Circuit Co poor manufacturing.. In a years time they produced about a 1000 units and 25% of those were defective and the rest are still in Texas. The money from the preorders were spent already and didn't get anywhere near the 4000 units they where hoping for. The rest you should know, moving production to Germany and what not.
 

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The money went to 1000 dead boards sitting in Texas. We understand you want to hang the chicken and fry the egg. Either way, you'll get no chicken, and no egg.

im talking about the money from the 70 pandoras that was supposed to help pay for my preorder
He paid that money out in refunds. I don't believe 70 1GHz units would fix the issue with remaining preorders. The only thing that is going to fix that is selling more Pandoras to new customers and time.
 

b1llygo4t

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::EDIT:: i dont even see a link to order from his site. is he not even selling them?? i mean there is no link to order from his shop at openpandora.org
 
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WorldTripping

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its not about ruining the guys life, at this rate he will do it on his own. and why would i want OP to file bankruptcy when craig is the one that is running it into the ground?

errr. You do know that Craig *is* OP Ltd don't you ? That OP Ltd is Craig's company ?

if he is taking money from an ltd company to pay for other companies or personal life thats called asset misappropriation fraud (embezzlement).

No it's not.


The cash that flows into the company belongs to the Limited Company. Craig as a Director can do what the fuck he likes with it, (within the legal framework of running a Ltd Co) including paying refunds.


Most people would call it a cash-flow hiccup that Craig is having at the moment.

where did all the money go that was supposed to go toward preorders?

This has been well documented in many threads.
 

b1llygo4t

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its not about ruining the guys life, at this rate he will do it on his own. and why would i want OP to file bankruptcy when craig is the one that is running it into the ground?

errr. You do know that Craig *is* OP Ltd don't you ? That OP Ltd is Craig's company ?

if he is taking money from an ltd company to pay for other companies or personal life thats called asset misappropriation fraud (embezzlement).

No it's not.


The cash that flows into the company belongs to the Limited Company. Craig as a Director can do what the fuck he likes with it, (within the legal framework of running a Ltd Co) including paying refunds.


Most people would call it a cash-flow hiccup that Craig is having at the moment.

where did all the money go that was supposed to go toward preorders?

This has been well documented in many threads.

so craig is the sole owner of OP ltd? and please read this link http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud_protection/asset_misappropriation
 

rohezal

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im talking about the money from the 70 pandoras that was supposed to help pay for my preorder

He had gave it away for refunds of old customers. He said he is legally forced too pay refunds if his company has money.

if he is taking money from an ltd company to pay for other companies or personal life thats called asset misappropriation fraud (embezzlement).
I heard this quite often. Please deliver a proof for it, if you tell someone committed a crime. Else it's libel.
 
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