The current situation

[overgauss]

You could have been supportive to all those people that said they cancelled. Their posts weren't that long. You did say you have lots of spare time after all. Good luck with your new advertisement thread maybe you'll prevent a few cancellations.

This is such a conceptual mismatch...


How do I be supportive to a cancelling customer? "Just hang on, they're working on it..." I was talking about being supportive to you in your ideas to help, but obviously you don't understand that. You don't understand a lot of what I've told you...


I'M not starting an advertisement thread, wtf are you smoking? It's common courtesy (and sense) to put your super special new ideas into a new thread so that you can be heard.


And, yes, Mr. Overgauss, "lots of time" is a relative concept. It's all about frame of reference, if you know what I mean. EDIT: You know, nevermind, you won't understand that either. Sorry I tried to explain things. :/


EDIT:

Edit: Like I said at this point, past history and the history shown in this thread one would have to be an idiot not to cancel. There's not been a peep from the people that run this place, or assurance, plan or wtfanything to address the concerns presented. It's clear people are fine losing the original preorders because they won't do a thing to save them. Frankly I feel like an idiot keeping the faith this long and if this is how they continue to run things my suggestion would be to get out while you can.

Now you are dead wrong. I've pitched in my $500 and an old Pandora for the 1 GHz test run to help the preorders, and I've stated publicly I will support any measure that helps them get their Pandoras first. You are insulting, sir, and an ass. Don't feel like an idiot, feel like an ass.


Management isn't posting a reply here to your every gripe because (read carefully):


They.


Don't.


Have.


Time.


They do their best to reply to everyone, but they don't always see all the posts, they have day jobs BESIDES the Open Pandora, and I imagine (I'm not speaking for them, don't try to imply that I am, these are my opinions) that they don't try to save every cancelling customer because in many cases it's a lost cause. Their time is better invested in new customers who are interested rather than the old customers who are tired of waiting on preorders that are difficult to fulfill. And they are trying to fulfill them, if you've been reading their posts as much as you write.


What will it take for you to grasp that time is not a resource that everyone has so fully as you do?


On the fair side. I think you are dead right that we need more advertisement effort. I will support people that start motivating this, but I myself don't have the know-how or the time to learn about advertising. Personally, I could go posting signs everywhere since I am in LA, but I am sure there are much more effective means of getting the word out. If I see a dedicated thread that concisely describes something I can reasonably do to help, I will.

Let's try to address your points one by one.


Being supportive to those that cancelled. There's several ways to do it. The way that I did was to ask them what did they need to happen so they wouldn't cancel. You could choose any number of ways. Perhaps by starting a new thread yourself as you asked me to do and directing them to it.


You're not starting an advertising thread? I stand corrected when you said "let's start a new thread" the "let's" part lead me to believe you would have some direct involvement. Otherwise perhaps you should have said "you should start..."


About spare time I'm not sure why you bring it up if there is nothing positive that it is used for. Everything you take me to task for you could have done yourself proactively since obviously I never catch your meaning.

Now you are dead wrong. I've pitched in my $500 and an old Pandora for the 1 GHz test run to help the preorders, and I've stated publicly I will support any measure that helps them get their Pandoras first. You are insulting, sir, and an ass. Don't feel like an idiot, feel like an ass.

It's interesting that although I spoke in generic terms everything revolves around you. Stating publicly that you will support any measure that helps them get their pandora first is great and all but misses the obvious point that people are getting tired of waiting for such measures to even be discussed or created. Saying I'll help build that house after the foundation is laid to the homeless doesn't help the homeless if no one will begin the process of laying the foundation! Lots of people will help after the foundation is laid. Why don't you help lay the foundation? You seem to know the best practices. Btw you wouldn't have had the opportunity to pitch in $500 and an old Pandora if there weren't the original investors piitching in their cash 3 years or more ago (in my case $768).


If pointing out the root cause of why people are dissatisfied 3 years later means you need to insult me, go for it. It only reinforces my point.


Also I had no expectation that "management would reply to my every gripe"! That's just you projecting onto me. I said chime in. It was done earlier in the thread and several people have canclled since then. One person said that if they got some assurances from OPT then they wouldn't cancel. Far be it from me to think that when management creats a thread about 100 cancellations and people are cancelling in that thread, that they might chime in. One such manager has around five thousand posts! Forgive me for thinking posting is part of the things they do every once in awhile.

Their time is better invested in new customers who are interested rather than the old customers who are tired of waiting on preorders that are difficult to fulfill.

Well now the truth comes out. I think this is part of the philosophy that you operate under. Surely you believe this is how the OPT should operate. This being the case, you've slipped loose why everything that I said earlier is correct. So why be mad at me for speaking the truth? So everything from why haven't the chimed in, to why not lift a finger to stave off cancellations, or why no plan has been laid out to why etc etc can be explained in the bolded quote above.


So again I am correct to say that old pre-orders are wishful thinkers if they somehow have the belief or perception that most anyone at large in the OPT will make their concerns a priority. This is because they are just old customers waiting on preorders that are difficult to fulfill. Yet in the same breath you support them completely!


I don't have a lot of time either. Time as a resource can be shared amongst the community. My previous efforts was to try to get the ball rolling instead of standing around talking about it. The thing I love most between the interaction between you and I is that either your attitude, actions or words prove me right everytime.

 

[overgauss]

@overgauss


--------------------


...


...


i want to remember the input i gave in the thread `the current situation`, i dont want to rewrite it all here as my hand hurts and needs rest, but in short: rework the website, you have enough interested visitors per day(!, i deduct that from the steady amount of your board-guests), make it more accessible, present the features of the pandora better ((inexpensive & easy) practicable details can be found as said in my previous posts), and so on. alone the website thing could be so important. the decision if someone wants to have something is an emotional one and it is made very quickly.


but off course i am not sure, maybe the website is planned imagewise as it is, and it is the best way for the possible target audience (i mean that seriously, not ironicly).


i wonder why nobody goes down that road, thinking a bit of "how it gets known/seen/presented". Overgauss per example said these were great ideas just to go along his own way again with printing expensive t-shirts for the community in the hope that has an advertising effect as well.. i just dont think that is focused on what can and should be really done, and if, he could start to lead that idea to realization himself, and if only making a pool here, or just opening a thread to see who participates, how the approval rating of the community he wants to sell merchandise is.


my apology for the intrussion, i dont want to keep anyone from printing t-shirts or contacting distributers.


-------


post copied from another post of mine:


http://boards.openpa...or/#entry188915

I think you should keep on doing what you do. It adds needed contrast to the discussion and shows things from multiple angles. Also talking about a thing helps to refine and define the thing. The point is that you are thinking about it and actively contributing. Many people aren't brave enough to do just that! Perhaps if you want to take it a step further you could create a thread to discuss such ideas. I am removing myself from the process so that your outcjome might be more fruitful. bismuthdrummer


said he would be supportive of such talks but my posting style is too long for him. Perhaps he and others might join you. If I were to do it, I would go back to the very first page where ideas are talked about and invite via PM everyone that left a positive contribution. There were quite a few that got drowned out by people trying to destroy me due to my overly offensive nature.


Best of luck to you!


-O

 

[Weevil]

Argh.

 

[overgauss]

Ugh.


Well the attempt at marketing it to Head-Fi'ers failed. It turned into an all-out flame war and was locked by a moderator.

Achk! Intrigued I read the thread and you are one hell of a salesperson and you really know your Pandora specs!

 

[Gerix]

I also read the thread and believe the effort put forth by takato14 was commendable. I also learned something about the audio quality of the headphone jack (although I'll admit the technical details went right over my head). However, I felt the responses came across as too pushy. As a personal anecdote, I was at furniture store with my grandmother, who had seen in the newspaper what looked like a great deal. We spoke to a saleman, who immediately started trashing it (at one point saying, "I don't even know why we would carry this") He asked if we wanted to look at other mattresses, but we had lost interest in dealing with that store. Recently, my girlfriend and I were out shopping and the salesperson laid out that the different products each had their own strengths and the final purchasing decision would ultimately depend on what we needed it for. I felt much more comfortable buying from someone like that. I don't know if 24 hours is enough time to bring attention to a device, raise interest among other forum goers, transforming that interest into a desire to own it, and then directing them to one of the shops. But I have to hand it to you. It's inspiring that you identified a selling feature of the device, put in time to research that feature, and then advertise it to a niche outside the Pandora's central one.

 

[WizardStan]

Didn't seem like much of a flame war.


I do find it quite amusing (perhaps even ironic) that a forum dedicated high quality "audiophiles", a class of people that are stereotypically known for spending large sums of money for just a bit more "beef" in their sound, would complain about the look and price of the Pandora, considering the DAC it's packing.

 

[Gerix]

I looked up a few of the devices they mentioned. The Colorfly looks really nice, but some of those price tags... Shocking. I don't know if the Pandora could beat a specialized device that costs more than it does.

 

[Dionysus]

Contest details would be posted on the OPT site as well as DC's. A Batman theme is PERFECT for the Pandora! Just look at it!

Batman?? How is batman perfect for the pandora? Thinks like pak ghosts have retro cool with them and would be far more suitable. I think things with a dual appeal, like space invaders and pac ghosts, which originated in games but now appear as symbols of an era outside the gaming world. Things like dungeon master are great to some but so geeky as to cut of the mainstream but if you stay on the cool side of geekdom it'll work. Many audiophiles wouldnt mind a pac ghost but you wouldnt catch them with batman. Its like the difference between sooty and zippy. Zippy is a symbol of a generation, sooty is a pants kids tv show.

Contest details would be posted on the OPT site as well as DC's. A Batman theme is PERFECT for the Pandora! Just look at it!

Batman?? How is batman perfect for the pandora? Thinks like pak ghosts have retro cool with them and would be far more suitable. I think things with a dual appeal, like space invaders and pac ghosts, which originated in games but now appear as symbols of an era outside the gaming world. Things like dungeon master are great to some but so geeky as to cut of the mainstream but if you stay on the cool side of geekdom it'll work. Many audiophiles wouldnt mind a pac ghost but you wouldnt catch them with batman. Its like the difference between sooty and zippy. Zippy is a symbol of a generation, sooty is a pants kids tv show.

Contest details would be posted on the OPT site as well as DC's. A Batman theme is PERFECT for the Pandora! Just look at it!

Batman?? How is batman perfect for the pandora? Thinks like pak ghosts have retro cool with them and would be far more suitable. I think things with a dual appeal, like space invaders and pac ghosts, which originated in games but now appear as symbols of an era outside the gaming world. Things like dungeon master are great to some but so geeky as to cut of the mainstream but if you stay on the cool side of geekdom it'll work. Many audiophiles wouldnt mind a pac ghost but you wouldnt catch them with batman. Its like the difference between sooty and zippy. Zippy is a symbol of a generation, sooty is a pants kids tv show.


http://urbanprankster.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/pacman.jpg

 

[Dionysus]

any browsers for pandora that dont do stuff like above and turn your post to nonsense when you try to edit?

 

[overgauss]

Contest details would be posted on the OPT site as well as DC's. A Batman theme is PERFECT for the Pandora! Just look at it!

Batman?? How is batman perfect for the pandora? Thinks like pak ghosts have retro cool with them and would be far more suitable. I think things with a dual appeal, like space invaders and pac ghosts, which originated in games but now appear as symbols of an era outside the gaming world. Things like dungeon master are great to some but so geeky as to cut of the mainstream but if you stay on the cool side of geekdom it'll work. Many audiophiles wouldnt mind a pac ghost but you wouldnt catch them with batman. Its like the difference between sooty and zippy. Zippy is a symbol of a generation, sooty is a pants kids tv show.

Contest details would be posted on the OPT site as well as DC's. A Batman theme is PERFECT for the Pandora! Just look at it!

Batman?? How is batman perfect for the pandora? Thinks like pak ghosts have retro cool with them and would be far more suitable. I think things with a dual appeal, like space invaders and pac ghosts, which originated in games but now appear as symbols of an era outside the gaming world. Things like dungeon master are great to some but so geeky as to cut of the mainstream but if you stay on the cool side of geekdom it'll work. Many audiophiles wouldnt mind a pac ghost but you wouldnt catch them with batman. Its like the difference between sooty and zippy. Zippy is a symbol of a generation, sooty is a pants kids tv show.

Contest details would be posted on the OPT site as well as DC's. A Batman theme is PERFECT for the Pandora! Just look at it!

Batman?? How is batman perfect for the pandora? Thinks like pak ghosts have retro cool with them and would be far more suitable. I think things with a dual appeal, like space invaders and pac ghosts, which originated in games but now appear as symbols of an era outside the gaming world. Things like dungeon master are great to some but so geeky as to cut of the mainstream but if you stay on the cool side of geekdom it'll work. Many audiophiles wouldnt mind a pac ghost but you wouldnt catch them with batman. Its like the difference between sooty and zippy. Zippy is a symbol of a generation, sooty is a pants kids tv show.


http://urbanprankste...0/03/pacman.jpg

Well for me it's perfect because it's black and looks like the perfect piece of Wayntech. YMMV.


Edit: Oh yeah and it went along with the digital DC comic angle for promotional purposes.

 

[overgauss]

Also I meant to make one last point. There seems to be this perception that new sales versus old preorder obligations is basically an either/or type of deal. Meaning handling old business is at the cost of profitability and handling new sales means old preorders must be made a low priority. This isn't the case! More than one solution exists.


Also there is an ethical and moral obligation to those pre-orders which have far ranging consequences that I won't get into.


Lastly let's look at this from a financial standpoint with the simplifying assumption that the cost of a preorder is roughly the same as an equivalent tier new unit price.


This means for every cancled preorder (since they don't represent profit) TWO ADDITIONAL UNITS must be sold to generate profit. The first unit covers the expense of the refund and the second unit sold generates actual profit. Until replacement units are sold this means a reduction in cash that could be used for other things.

 

[fahrstuhl]

Contest details would be posted on the OPT site as well as DC's. A Batman theme is PERFECT for the Pandora! Just look at it!

Batman?? How is batman perfect for the pandora? Thinks like pak ghosts have retro cool with them and would be far more suitable. I think things with a dual appeal, like space invaders and pac ghosts, which originated in games but now appear as symbols of an era outside the gaming world. Things like dungeon master are great to some but so geeky as to cut of the mainstream but if you stay on the cool side of geekdom it'll work. Many audiophiles wouldnt mind a pac ghost but you wouldnt catch them with batman. Its like the difference between sooty and zippy. Zippy is a symbol of a generation, sooty is a pants kids tv show.

The Pandora is a multifunction device and does some things I'd expect the BatLaptop to do, too, so...


What I'd love more than anything else is this, though:

Spoiler

I really need to find someone around here who can plot vinyl stickers.

 

[moxie]

That...is excellent.

 

[skeezix]

lol, awesome Wish that was real


(That was in fact what I was thinking of doing to my pandora a few months back.. cut out a template and see about spraying on some plastic-adhesive paint.. I was going to orient it the other way, so when the pandora is open, people across would see Don't Panic upside right


Man oh man, wish I knew something about painting ove rplastic.. I don't have the confidence to risk it

 

[fahrstuhl]

From what I've read vinyl stickers are very good for this. Some copy-shops do vinyl plotting, I've found two or three in my area in the yellow pages.


EDIT: I'd orient it the same way as you would, skeezix. It was just easier to do the other way on the image.

 

[overgauss]

Contest details would be posted on the OPT site as well as DC's. A Batman theme is PERFECT for the Pandora! Just look at it!

Batman?? How is batman perfect for the pandora? Thinks like pak ghosts have retro cool with them and would be far more suitable. I think things with a dual appeal, like space invaders and pac ghosts, which originated in games but now appear as symbols of an era outside the gaming world. Things like dungeon master are great to some but so geeky as to cut of the mainstream but if you stay on the cool side of geekdom it'll work. Many audiophiles wouldnt mind a pac ghost but you wouldnt catch them with batman. Its like the difference between sooty and zippy. Zippy is a symbol of a generation, sooty is a pants kids tv show.

The Pandora is a multifunction device and does some things I'd expect the BatLaptop to do, too, so...


What I'd love more than anything else is this, though:

Spoiler

Spoiler

I really need to find someone around here who can plot vinyl stickers.

OK. OK. Synapses firing like mad. Barely...able...to...type.


But it struck me that my idea coupled with your idea has a hint of genius! How many of us would donate a little extra for a themed Pandora?

 

[skeezix]

From what I've read vinyl stickers are very good for this. Some copy-shops do vinyl plotting, I've found two or three in my area in the yellow pages.


EDIT: I'd orient it the same way as you would, skeezix. It was just easier to do the other way on the image.

Vinyl had never occurred to me .. I've never used that 'skin' type stuff that was sort of common a few years ago, but you're right; great idea


Looks like Unique Skins with a custom design (the first hit from google) is $15 for the top of a Nintendo DS .. should be about right:


http://www.uniqueskins.com/


Will have to fiddle

 

[fahrstuhl]

But it struck me that my idea coupled with your idea has a hint of genius! How many of us would donate a little extra for a themed Pandora?

It should be easy to do for a Batman logo or a Hitchhiker's Guide but as soon as you need more colors? I don't know but I can imagine that's more complex than it sounds.


Skeezix' link does all of that, so I was probably wrong


I wouldn't donate to theme my Pandora though, I'd do it myself

 

[overgauss]

But it struck me that my idea coupled with your idea has a hint of genius! How many of us would donate a little extra for a themed Pandora?

It should be easy to do for a Batman logo or a Hitchhiker's Guide but as soon as you need more colors? I don't know but I can imagine that's more complex than it sounds.


Skeezix' link does all of that, so I was probably wrong


I wouldn't donate to theme my Pandora though, I'd do it myself

Cool deal! I just wish there was a way to turn this into funds for the team. Thanks for the info nonetheless.

 

[takato14]

The

I also read the thread and believe the effort put forth by takato14 was commendable. I also learned something about the audio quality of the headphone jack (although I'll admit the technical details went right over my head). However, I felt the responses came across as too pushy. As a personal anecdote, I was at furniture store with my grandmother, who had seen in the newspaper what looked like a great deal. We spoke to a saleman, who immediately started trashing it (at one point saying, "I don't even know why we would carry this") He asked if we wanted to look at other mattresses, but we had lost interest in dealing with that store. Recently, my girlfriend and I were out shopping and the salesperson laid out that the different products each had their own strengths and the final purchasing decision would ultimately depend on what we needed it for. I felt much more comfortable buying from someone like that. I don't know if 24 hours is enough time to bring attention to a device, raise interest among other forum goers, transforming that interest into a desire to own it, and then directing them to one of the shops. But I have to hand it to you. It's inspiring that you identified a selling feature of the device, put in time to research that feature, and then advertise it to a niche outside the Pandora's central one.

Thanks for that.


Also, apparently the thread wasn't locked, I just wasn't able to post for a while for whatever reason... oh, the magical wonders of forums.


I might be able to make some more headway with them. We'll see.