It's all white!

[guacamole]

4GB version is currently 97.8% of all orders, would be nice to have some attention given to it

Would be nice to have an option to run unthrottled with fan, or throttled with fan off. More choice is better

 

[levi]

All the devices I have with fans can't run unthrottled even with the fan spun up to 100%, they can only run hotter for a bit longer, so I'd expect similar from the Pyra.

That's all devices except for an old Pentium 3 which I think mainly spins up its fans to cool the hard disc. That CPU doesn't have a scalable clock as far as I know.

 

[Letalis Sonus]

and I am showing near all modern smartphones have LCD in the same body than CPU without problem for LCD

...except that near all modern smartphones don't use LCDs at all, among the cheap crap are only few "modern" upper class ones to be found.

OLED is an entirely different technology that works without any kind of liquid crystals - its organic nature comes with a whole can of different issues.

 

[Grench]

Surely You'd need many USB connections to even approach the combined throughput of the Pyra's various I/O? (Which includes USB3.0, SATA, HDMI-out)

Who says a standard USB cable can withstand being twisted back and forth in the same place that many times?

One USB cable... how would that work? For all the connections?

Except for that this solution needs a lot more power, as these USB connections with hubs have quite a bit of loss here

You'd like to have a USB cable stick out of the back of the lid and back into the bottom part? :O
That sounds like a Raspberry Pi Hacker solution, but not like a product.

I think I understand the concept being presented. It is a different concept for what would be a different device with similar feature results. It's being presented as, "Hey, we could theoretically cook an egg this way too," and not directed as a suggested change to the current menu/product/project.

Having the SoC directly interfaced to an aluminum lid would be both a heat sink and a heat dissipation point. With the SoC throttled to 120*C, the lid would not even approach anything remotely near 70*C. On a hot sunny day it would struggle to reach 40*C. We can dig into the thermodynamics if you want, but the idea itself is sound.

The display board would have backlights on one side (front) and the SoC on the other (back). This would reduce the board count. The LCD would be separated from the SoC by the display board itself. With that big heat sink & dissipator (aluminum lid) sucking heat out the other side, it should not get overly warm on the display side. In this concept the heat gets -removed-.

One USB 3.0 -connection-, not cable from the lid to the base. This could/would still be a twisted through-hinge design. It would also carry the power for the display & SoC from the base to the lid - so it would have all of the USB 3.0 connections plus a couple of thicker power leads - though this is included in the USB 3.0 Powered-B specification. This makes 11 leads through the hinge which is far fewer than the Pandora had.

Total bandwidth to the base would be restricted to the 5 gigabits per second of the USB 3.0 connection. By the time this idea could come to fruition USB 3.1 Gen 2 specs might be realized which would be 10 gigabits per second.

The base would need to contain one or more hubs. A USB hub does not necessarily have to be inefficient.

USB 1.0 equivalency 1.5Mbps connections (2):
keyboard & gamepads
left nub (joystick1) + right nub (joystick2)

USB 2.0 equivalency 480Mbps connections (3):
WiFi
Bluetooth 3
USB 2.0 port left (could get upgraded to 3.0)
USB 2.0 port right (could get upgraded to 3.0)

USB 3.0 equivalency 5Gbps connections (4):
microUSB 3.0 (Or USB C) connector
SDXC left 100MB/s = 800Mbps
SDXC right 100MB/s = 800Mbps
microSDXC 100MB/s = 800Mbps

1.5Mbps * 2 + 480Mbps * 3 + 800Mbps * 3 = 3363Mbps.

This design could run everything BUT the HDMI output over a single USB 3.0 through hinge connection, though when using the USB 3.0 on the base some throttling could occur.

USB 3.0 is pretty darn fast.

All hypothetical though - and only a thought exercise and not a critique over current design. But - I consider the design feasible.

 

[Eight Bit]

4GB version is currently 97.8% of all orders, would be nice to have some attention given to it

I read in some previous post that @hns was going to take some time this week to check different timings to get it to work, let's hope he works it out and green light can be given for mass production start

 

[Letalis Sonus]

Having the SoC directly interfaced to an aluminum lid would be both a heat sink and a heat dissipation point. With the SoC throttled to 120*C, the lid would not even approach anything remotely near 70*C. On a hot sunny day it would struggle to reach 40*C.

The screen generates heat as well, I wouldn't underestimate that.

 

[Eight Bit]

It would basically be a phone with a keyboard on it, stop it!

 

[PowerGod]

The screen generates heat as well, I wouldn't underestimate that.

Just touch it so you'll dissipate !!

 

[Splintercat]

The other issue with metal cases is that it can interfere with wireless pretty badly. If you look closely on many modern phones that have mostly aluminum, you'll usually spot an area that is just covered in plastic for the wireless antennas.

I seem to remember that the Pandora's antenna is up behind the screen. Lots of laptops will put the antenna around the plastic bezel near the screen.

I agree with @Grench that the design of putting the cpu up behind the screen is feasible. Cell phones do show that can work. Though cell phone and tablet design is also driven by trying to make a device as thin as possible, which necessitates some trade-offs. I think if one were to make a device like what @oskda is proposing, it'd likely end up looking like a tiny version of an old ASUS transformer, or a Microsoft Surface. The other possibility is that it would end up looking like what most people can have now, where you have a phone, and you can use a usb adapter to spit out USB and HDMI, and then use a bluetooth keyboard or game controller.

I think how the Pyra and Pandora are designed are better suited for their function, making the screen heavier would make it harder to keep the screen at an angle, and would likely strain your hands and wrists more. I have an old Asus transformer, and even through the keyboard has a giant battery in it, it's still really top heavy, and doesn't function very well as a laptop.

 

[levi]

I seem to remember that the Pandora's antenna is up behind the screen. Lots of laptops will put the antenna around the plastic bezel near the screen.

That's true, but ED found it slow to unthread and rethread every time he took a Pandora apart and put one together. One of the design considerations behind the Pyra was to make it as quick and painless to assemble and repair, so he can do a lot more in one day, or do more of his other 4.5 jobs when repairing the odd unit. The wifi antenna is towards the bottom left of the main board underside (or bottom right as you hold the assembled unit in your hands), I think. This is also the reason we have two RGB LEDs on the lid rather than six one-colour LEDS on the spine like on the Pandora, and half of the lid inner is held in by screws rather than clips all the way round.

 

[oskda]

Surely You'd need many USB connections to even approach the combined throughput of the Pyra's various I/O? (Which includes USB3.0, SATA, HDMI-out)


Who says a standard USB cable can withstand being twisted back and forth in the same place that many times?

I suppose you are right about HDMI, so HDMI conection could sit in upper case part (same as internal microSD), but all other items can sit in lower case part connected by USB 3.0.
[doublepost=1500451804,1500451580][/doublepost]

You could move all those ports up, too. Or instead, only move the battery up.

If you move battery up, you don't solve 2 problems:

1/ Heat in your hands produced by CPU/SOC.

2/ You lost big aluminum heatsink to dissipate CPU/SOC heat.

With a clamshell design we have to parts (contrary to most actual smartphones), and it could be used for better heat dissipation and to better protection to battery, but actual Pyra design doesn't take advantage of that different design.

 

[klapse]

Maybe you should put the battery in the lid as well...

 

[elwing]

That's a bad idea ergonomically... Except if you also put the keyboard and the gaming control on the screen and get completely rid of the bottom part... Even if you kept the battery on the bottom, with the sturdier hinge and the big battery to avoid that the pyra caps, you'll end up with a device weighting more than 600gr, that or you'll get a device that you can't just place open on a table...
And anyway, while these discussions are interesting, they are for off-topic, there's no way such changes could take place without setting the Pyra back for years, with Ed probably filling for bankruptcy...

 

[Grench]

And anyway, while these discussions are interesting, they are for off-topic, there's no way such changes could take place without setting the Pyra back for years, with Ed probably filling for bankruptcy...

I think I understand the concept being presented. It is a different concept for what would be a different device with similar feature results. It's being presented as, "Hey, we could theoretically cook an egg this way too," and not directed as a suggested change to the current menu/product/project.
...
All hypothetical though - and only a thought exercise and not a critique over current design. But - I consider the design feasible.

Agreed that this entire alternate reality design idea conversation would be better suited to nearly any other area other than 'News'. I don't think it needs to go all the way to 'Off Topic', but could probably live in the 'Pyra - General' area. If a moderator wants to parse it all out of this News thread, it would probably be a good thing.

 

[FBnil]

Maybe you should put the battery in the lid as well...

It would be nice to have a dcell/watch battery to keep the internal clock ticking. I often need to resynch the time when the rubber doesnt hold the battery steady on the Pandora. Pyra is going to have a better fit, so that not a problem anymore.
But how about this alternate-reality idea: screen doubles as a solar charger

 

[levi]

That's true. I've just had the back off my Pandora to figure out why my R trigger fails to work now (it seems the switch itself has just died) and had been trying out a few new roms (including the Rayman prototype from the other thread and Gish), and now I should probably go back and check I haven't made a few files and directories with a presumably 1970 timestamp.

 

[Grench]

I wonder how cell phones query the local tower to check the time...?

 

[oskda]

Except for that you either need to make the lid extra thick ........

I'm not really sure what the difference is between a big heatsink in the lid or in the bottom part

Thank you very much for your extensive answer. Now I see it is more complex I thought.

The difference is between a big heatsink in the lid or in the bottom part is simple: we hold and use Pyra in the bottom part: our hands hold Pyra and type on bottom part, so there we don't desire hot, while near all time we don't touch (while in use) the lid (we can touch screen of course, as it is tactile).

Thanks again for your answer.

 

[AndiTheBest]

I wonder how cell phones query the local tower to check the time...?

AT+CCLK?

Edit: checked the modem documentation. On this modem, this command returns the value from the internal RTC. Not sure if its possible to get the time from the tower, as the document doesnt include the CTZU AT-command.

Edit2: the document i found(https://www.google.at/url?sa=t&sour...ggkMAI&usg=AFQjCNE__AvffIzfmZixkfwuOOSM8u54hQ) doesnt contain all available AT-commands and is outdated(version 1 of the modem doesnt support voice), so its maybe possible with AT+CTZU=1 and AT+CCLK?

Does anyone know where to get actual PLS8 documents from gemalto?

 

[levi]

While there is the facility to get the time from the masts since at least GPRS days, in practice I found too many masts with wrongly set times to make it of any use. Maybe these days it's better, but at the same time you can get sub-second accurate times either over NTP over IP or from the GPS time signals, which are magnitudes more reliably in my experience.