I'm out of ideas for news-titles

[Wrath Of Khan]

Yeah, July 2018 is a likely release date. 2017 will not happen I think. It is taking a long time. I will probably hold in there till the end but its crossed my mind a few times to pull out. If it goes too far into 2018 I might well pull out. Depends if I have the cash and use for it etc.

 

[Splintercat]

I plan on riding it out. What I want is an upgrade to my Pandora. Even if GPD comes out with something that seems close, this community has shown a real dedication to supporting a device for a long time.
Heck, the Pandora is still fulfilling my dream from when I was 12 of having a portable SNES.

Though every once in a while, I've wondered how successful of a project it would be to build something like the Pyra, but make the main board compatible with the Raspberry pi compute module.
I know it wouldn't have as many goodies as the Pyra (for instance less ram), but on the other hand you'd have the support of the RaspberryPi community.

 

[dsblackout]

Desqview !! now there is a thing i had forgotten about.. 80386 shrunk to 20 nm ? can we put a 80387 co processor in there too? wow the architecture is quote " CHMOS IV, 1 µm" so thats 1000nM ?? thats some shrinkage. fond memories of a 386DX-33 and eventually the 387 co pro... what a gaming beast it was....

I have a Libretto, actually how I found the Pyra, which is a Pentium MMX in a VHS-sized package. Not the best battery life, but the only batteries I have for it are twenty years old and need to be rebuilt.

 

[Eight Bit]

Three weeks have passed since this news post was made. I wonder what progress has been made.
@EvilDragon as far as I'm concerned, lengthy newsposts aren't necessary every time. Just some regular single line status updates would be nice

 

[Kippykip]

Yeah, July 2018 is a likely release date. 2017 will not happen I think. It is taking a long time. I will probably hold in there till the end but its crossed my mind a few times to pull out. If it goes too far into 2018 I might well pull out. Depends if I have the cash and use for it etc.

By that point I'll probably be in another address

 

[rygD]

I plan on sticking with the Pyra until it is ready. If ED has to cancel it I would just buy something else from him, or whatever. The whole reason I didn't preorder a Pandora back then is because I wasn't comfortable with the risk. I have enough confidence in ED to do whatever he can to make things right that it isn't what I call a risk. It is more like a donation where I will get something cool eventually. Oh, wait, I already have a cool signed and numbered main board. You get the point.

I have a Libretto, actually how I found the Pyra, which is a Pentium MMX in a VHS-sized package. Not the best battery life, but the only batteries I have for it are twenty years old and need to be rebuilt.

The great thing about the HP DOS palmtops, and other early ones, is that they use standard alkaline batteries. Hmmm...I wonder how I will keep my Pandora and Pyra alive in a few decades.

 

[levi]

By that point I'll probably be in another address

By then I might be in a different political union. Thankfully it seems now that we're definitely getting another two years of the EU single market. I remember trying to buy stuff from Norway before VAT rates had been standardised, and that was quite a fraught process - I've only once bought something from the US that was above the 'ah, forget about it' limit for customs fees, and the fees from the post office combined with the customs fees were quite eye-opening.

 

[CFWhitman]

I don't have any plans to pull out of getting a Pyra because there is still nothing like it. My Pandora has gotten to the point where it doesn't work right, and though I can probably get it partially fixed (I think there are a couple of motherboard issues that nothing can be done about), I really would like a replacement. The GPD Win isn't it. Nothing out there is it. The Pyra is my best chance going at some sort of replacement.

I actually think that if we could get it with increased RAM, the same SoC as in the current Raspberry Pi at any point would be great. Most of my reason for feeling this way is probably because the Videocore IV GPU in the Raspberry Pi SoC is by far the best open source software supported ARM video there is. Some GC video chipsets have reverse engineered support that is pretty good. I've also heard that the Freedreno project has a good reverse engineered driver for some Andreno GPUs.

 

[Kippykip]

I don't have any plans to pull out of getting a Pyra because there is still nothing like it. My Pandora has gotten to the point where it doesn't work right, and though I can probably get it partially fixed (I think there are a couple of motherboard issues that nothing can be done about), I really would like a replacement. The GPD Win isn't it. Nothing out there is it. The Pyra is my best chance going at some sort of replacement.

I actually think that if we could get it with increased RAM, the same SoC as in the current Raspberry Pi at any point would be great. Most of my reason for feeling this way is probably because the Videocore IV GPU in the Raspberry Pi SoC is by far the best open source software supported ARM video there is. Some GC video chipsets have reverse engineered support that is pretty good. I've also heard that the Freedreno project has a good reverse engineered driver for some Andreno GPUs.

If the GPD-Win had 4G and more IO then I probably would've backed out months ago.

 

[MrConfusion]

... the same SoC as in the current Raspberry Pi at any point would be great. Most of my reason for feeling this way is probably because the Videocore IV GPU in the Raspberry Pi SoC is by far the best open source software supported ARM video there is. ...

A sad state of affairs to be sure. I tried enabling the acceleration on my PI3 twice, about half a year between attempts (therefore with a couple of different kernel releases) both times I got artefacts in the "regular" apt-getted Oolite and had to allocate a disproportionate amount of memory for the GPU because there was no dynamic allocation... or actually there was, but that one is even more busted than the GPU driver and therefore very unstable. I had better (more rewarding ) things to tinker with. So I quickly gave up and forgot about the PI3 as a GL platform. At least until the PI has so much RAM I don't need dynamic allocation. Which is not going to happen, because by then I'll probably need more RAM - I don't think the PI4 is going to be released all that soon ;-).

Do share if you've had more success with the GPU of a PI3!

As far as OpenGL goes, the Pandora had a far better out of box experience (it just worked) than the PI, but of course I've managed to break that experience too when tinkering with Slackware (something to do with my WM?).

 

[NetBLOKS]

If the GPD-Win had 4G and more IO then I probably would've backed out months ago.

Well, I´ve got a GPD and while it´s a neat and powerful little device, it suffers quite many problems:
- standby-resume issues with the occasional reboot while in standby
- driver problems
- mass-storage performance
- the keyboard
- NO KEYBOARD BACKLIGHT!
- display back-light - too dimm at day, too bright in the night
- the OS (Windows: after every service-pack some problems go away and new problems arise, the drivers and hardware support of GPD is crappy)
- hard to open (to get to the internals)

For me, it´s a really nice Steam-Boy and Youtube-machine but really not suitable for work.
That´s why I wait for the Pyra in the hope for a stable, real-work suitable machine.
The devices will both be used by me, one for playing and one for working, guess which one will do what

But that´s of course just my opinion and maybe others won´t feel the problems of the GPD as that much of a dealbraker for being a work-tool.

 

[Grench]

We could use a news update - even if RAM is never mentioned in it beyond 'working on it'.

WiFi?
Cases?
Heat pipes & heat sink?
OS progress update?
Charging updates?
Celebrate the first game into the new repository?
Keyboard mapping, back light controls, audio, HDMI out, USB port testing, SD slots testing, microSD & eMMC active flipping, etc...

Lots of stuff we would all love to hear about.

 

[levi]

We've had games on the repo since May. No idea how well they run though, not owning anything to be able to test them on.

 

[TDT]

I think the risk you're going to run into is how long you want to wait til shipping.

Getting it perfect is nice and all, but beware that there are competitors out there. The "GPD Win", which you referenced and I subsequently ended up purchasing (which is now shipped, on its way) should be a real threat. The purpose of these machines, for many, is gaming. So there are a few really important things to keep in mind. First, 4Gb is important, and 1.5ghz is also important. When you have the GPD Win with these specs and even higher in the CPU and doing okay - you may want to look at them as inspiration.

Ideally, you may want to put out a poll to discuss what people plan to use their pyra for. I'm willing to wager that a good deal will be using it for gaming, but a poll should confirm that. Many will likely use it for other purposes too (linux mini-laptop), in which case the 1.5ghz may not be as necessary. Still....the GPD Win 2 is rumored to come out next year in the summer. Aiming to beat that release cycle should be your ultimate goal. I think you have a lot of dedicated fans, including me, but in the end people should ask "what does X better" and base their decision off of that. Unfortunately, Pandora ran into a similar issue. I also think if you were able to bring more people from the community into this, you'd find yourself better off. How to get those people is a bit harder, and in what skillsets you need. Hiring someone or offering incentives may help get further support. For example, "free units for those that help", not only prototypes but the end unit, may help too.
[doublepost=1506459292,1506458572][/doublepost]

Well, I´ve got a GPD and while it´s a neat and powerful little device, it suffers quite many problems:
- standby-resume issues with the occasional reboot while in standby
- driver problems
- mass-storage performance
- the keyboard
- NO KEYBOARD BACKLIGHT!
- display back-light - too dimm at day, too bright in the night
- the OS (Windows: after every service-pack some problems go away and new problems arise, the drivers and hardware support of GPD is crappy)
- hard to open (to get to the internals)

For me, it´s a really nice Steam-Boy and Youtube-machine but really not suitable for work.
That´s why I wait for the Pyra in the hope for a stable, real-work suitable machine.
The devices will both be used by me, one for playing and one for working, guess which one will do what

But that´s of course just my opinion and maybe others won´t feel the problems of the GPD as that much of a dealbraker for being a work-tool.

The mass storage issue is definitely something I read about, and am curious how the June update affected it. From what I read, they have two origins for the internal storage, and one of them is incredibly bad.

I get mine soon (ordered the June one last week). My goal when getting it is to stabilize everything (install all to current updates, including drivers), then freeze auto updates and only pull in security fixes and changes. I'll probably also image the device to an ISO so I can revert, if needed. Since I'm not planning on using it as a desktop replacement, for web browsing, or any other laptop-like activity - the security updates aren't as important.

The keyboard sounds like it's not very good. I think I'll be okay with that personally. I plan to use my GPD Win primarily for gaming, and not for much else. I like emulated games a lot, so as long as I can get all those running without incident, then I'll be fine with the keyboard kinda sucking.

The standby/resume issue is a new thing I haven't heard about. Could you go into more detail about that? As in, how often does this restart (percentage wise)? and is it when something - like an emulator/etc is running?

 

[dracmas]

I still say it's just a patience thing. Only problem is going to be is a money issue lost where people get impatient and buy a gpd instead of waiting. I'm sure he'll still sell allot of devices, but the question you should be asking is are you willing to sacrifice quality to have a device right now with quite a few problems? Not me.

 

[NetBLOKS]

@TDT Turning off updates will do you not much good: as mentioned, the Win has problems resolved and issued with every update, so it's a bit of a mixed bag.
Regarding the standby bug:
If you leave the Win in standby for a while (I have no exact number, sometimes an hour, sometimes more, sometimes less) it will have lost it's standby state, be active and waiting for logon.
This costs battery, time and maybe even data loss.
I disabled standby through closing the lid, cause it triggered it more often and also the lid in my revision does just need a little push to loose the "closed state" and reactivates even closed.

 

[TDT]

I still say it's just a patience thing. Only problem is going to be is a money issue lost where people get impatient and buy a gpd instead of waiting. I'm sure he'll still sell allot of devices, but the question you should be asking is are you willing to sacrifice quality to have a device right now with quite a few problems? Not me.

Actually, that's not what I was meaning. "Quality" is a very subjective term, and in the end it comes down to performance, for many. In other words - lets look at a project I backed. I backed the Flutter wireless device some years back (2014ish). It was supposed to send in 2014, but didn't. They're now just sending it out. The range on it is .5 miles. I was talking with a coworker recently about some of the projects he's working on. He mentioned a device that basically does the same thing, but goes off abandoned FCC channels. It gets around 6 miles, from his tests. He's actually using it in a production environment to monitor soil quality in a field.

This is what I mean. When the Flutter was announced, it was novel - no one else was doing this. It was cool, worth supporting. Now, there's a better device at less than 1/2 the cost (actually even better than that). That happened largely because of waiting too long to get this stuff into people's hands. The person doing the Kickstarter was a one-man shop trying to fulfill these. Due to a lot of life circumstances, he only recently made good on his word. Reading that, then reading the original post, I can see similarities in the story, and don't want the Pyra to have what happened to this guy on Kickstarter. That said, I never requested a refund from the guy on Kickstarter, and probably won't for the Pyra either. But, the project needs a strong, large, user base to succeed. There are quite a few dedicated people, but I know people who dropped off from the Pandora due to the setbacks - people who I think could have added to the community. A strong community is a mix of how large it is plus the devotion of the members. I'd say that Pandora/Pyra has a good amount of devotion, but isn't particularly large.

@TDT Turning off updates will do you not much good: as mentioned, the Win has problems resolved and issued with every update, so it's a bit of a mixed bag.
Regarding the standby bug:
If you leave the Win in standby for a while (I have no exact number, sometimes an hour, sometimes more, sometimes less) it will have lost it's standby state, be active and waiting for logon.
This costs battery, time and maybe even data loss.
I disabled standby through closing the lid, cause it triggered it more often and also the lid in my revision does just need a little push to loose the "closed state" and reactivates even closed.

Thanks for the feedback on that. Some problems can be dealt with, some can't. So I'd argue that one could objectively measure an update as being worthwhile or not. I still think that getting it to a stable state (defined as a state with bugs one can live with), then doing planned upgrades is better than letting Windows auto update. I do this with all my machines, because I really dislike windows updating itself and have had things break on me. Your feedback and original post further makes me think that very carefully planned upgrades will be necessary for the device because of the issues you've mentioned.

I'll be sure to disable standby like you did as well. I assume that you trigger the standby from the start menu, and push a key to reactivate it? I may treat it like I do my pandora, which is often just shutting it down, and booting it back up when I want to do something. There have been many times when I forget about the Pandora being in sleep, going for a week or two, then coming back to a dead battery. It's often much better for me to shut it down, and only use suspend during the day when I'm doing little gaming sessions.

 

[NetBLOKS]

@TDT Yes, I activate standby by shortly pressing the power-button.
But just for periods of 15-30 minutes or short transports, since the Win needs a long time to boot (especially after login to load the user related stuff).
By the side:
I really like the Win and recommend it as a gaming device at the very cheap price point and from your description of how to handle the updates and your use-case I also recommend it to you.
I use it a lot in bed, when the kid is sleeping, with a headset to surf YouTube or play some Steam games.

 

[Bosbeetle]

Three weeks have passed since this news post was made. I wonder what progress has been made.
@EvilDragon as far as I'm concerned, lengthy newsposts aren't necessary every time. Just some regular single line status updates would be nice

Just read https://www.pyra-handheld.com/pipermail/kernel/2017-September/thread.html plenty of stuff being done... And it's a nice read as well. Maybe even join in if you have ideas.

 

[Eight Bit]

Just read https://www.pyra-handheld.com/pipermail/kernel/2017-September/thread.html plenty of stuff being done... And it's a nice read as well. Maybe even join in if you have ideas.

Yeah I know, it's very interesting but doesn't say anything about progress in regards to the case, the mass production of the main board, the CPU board etc.
Is the waiting for the 4GB issue?