A date with the Pyra


Not_a_Nick

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But with the dimensions being off, how can you print the exact dimensions if the most exact dimensions given are "about the size of the pandora"? Or are the raw numbers still in the file and you just have have to add a unit? I really have no clue as I never 3D printed anything and have no experience with such files.

140 x 84 x 29 mm, as stated at the technical specs tab of this website.
The specs say approximately 140 x 84 x 29 mm, and that's the problem. As WizardStan said, even a small difference and the PCBs don't fit.
You're always going to have a fitting problem with it, because of the simple fact that with the dissipation of heat, the plastic polymers used for printing tend to shrink enough that they're not suited for precision fits. The only way i see that would work is with a few tries of resizing it above size to allow a margin for shrinkage. In my opinion that's just too much work and wasted money. If you want to go for it there is some information on the web regarding specific printing materials/brands and their tolerances, but honestly in the end it's all about trial and error. Injection molds are really the proper way, but then again out the range of the wallet of us mere mortals.
 

WizardStan

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There really isn't much money lost in 3D printing, plastic and the electricity to run the machine are cheap. The cost of 3D printing is the time it takes, and while they say "time is money" it's not really a direct conversion.  I will gladly waste 3 or 4 days worth of prints to get the right fit.
 

zoranc

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1. My question was what is it that 90% of people using the Pyra will be able to do under 'proper' Linux, but not Android. It isn't a loaded question, quite genuine. Your suggestion of people buying a different Chinese Android device doesn't really make any sense in the context (we aren't comparing the Pyra to other devices, we are simply talking about OS options for the Pyra).

2. This makes me think you have never used Android with a keyboard? Is that possibly true? The reason I speculate this is if you use Android with a proper keyboard you should know many things that are faster. I mean, take typical usage of someone on an Android device, say a mobile phone, write an email, write messages to friends, fill in web forms, type entries into Google search? All of the above is stuff that works much better with a proper keyboard.

3. With regards to the secure data vault bit coin wallet thing, that to me is most certainly the 10% minority.

4. Native GNU C++ being a big plus: I don't know the % split here of developers vs end users. When I look at the number of developers releasing software, it would be how many? Like how many people have contributing to the repo in the last 12 months? 200 people? How many Pandora devices are there? 4000? So about 5% of people are developers that release software? Sure there will be some people that write code that they never release, but is it really that high? I don't have the answers to these questions, but my speculation was that a large percentage of users would use Android without any problems.

I don't really want to continue any threads which insinuate people (including myself) are stupid, or with anyone who is going to be super defensive, or assume the position that I am 'against' them, as my post really was more of a question mark than anything. Up until I made the post, I was fully against Android, but then I asked myself why I felt like that, and the answers weren't as clear.

My apologies for getting to heated up and using words like 'stupid'.

I wanted a mobile productivity devices since ever. And I had many of them, some well known and some obscure. All of them with a keyboard. Of all of them the Android was the least usefull one. Sure I could have used the e-mail but I never wanted for some reason (I guess for somaller ones I'd simply use the smartphone, and for longer ones I prefer my MacBook Air 11"). Editing office documents would have been cumbersome with Android treatment of the filesystem so I never tried it, plus I wasn't sure on office documents formats how compatibel they were. The possibility for the things I could do on it were so limited for me. Compare that to a Windows and Linux devices I had, and I it is qualitatively different the freedom and possibilities I had. 

I personaly never submited to the Pandora app store but I used it for programming. Store developers are the hardcore ones IMO. Between them and the non-programers there is a large spectrum of people programing now and then. Even if its for a simply pyton script or such.

Bitcoin data vault is definetely a minority but my point was it's just one of many use cases demonstrating the unique selling proposition such device has and probably there are numbor of similar examples.

Finaly why is a comparision of a Chinese Android device with Pandora/Pyra irelevant? I sill don't uderstand it, care to elaborate? It shows competition and potential alternatives for users. If you wanted Android gaming device why Pyra? If it's only to support ED and the comunity financialy you can donate half of the Pyra price and buy a chinece device - eventualy both you and ED would be better of financially. If you wanted a user friendly OS with a keyboard, again there are number of devices on the market having that with Android and Blackbery OS.

I'd argue that the opposite - ignoring the alternatives is the wrong approach showing a fiction view of the world and ignoring the current market. And while I can see some potential use cases for Android Pyra (and I recognised them in this post) I'd argue that those add little to no value to the current market, while Linux Pyra has many unique selling propositions to it's potential users.
 

bzar

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Well, the recent community poll on PandoraLive had this graph about previous experience with linux:

While this is great, I suspect most visitors of PandoraLive are "hardcore users" (for a lack of a better term), while there are also quite a few people with Pandoras who just lurk on the forums or don't visit them at all. So: Yes, great poll for this community, but don't think every Pandora user is part of it.
Heh, poll data doesn't match your expectations so the data must be biased? It doesn't have to contain every Pandora user, just a representative sample. As far as I'm aware, PandoraLive is read by "hardcore" and "casual" users alike, so there's no specific reason to believe the sample is biased.
 

Not_a_Nick

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There really isn't much money lost in 3D printing, plastic and the electricity to run the machine are cheap. The cost of 3D printing is the time it takes, and while they say "time is money" it's not really a direct conversion.  I will gladly waste 3 or 4 days worth of prints to get the right fit.

1075479-well_that_s_just_like_your_opinion_man_super.jpg


Now seriously, it may not be that much money (for some) or time (for some again), it's all relative. Anyway, that part of my comment was more directed towards the quality of the final product, which needs to be finished in the end and so on. I guess it's a fun project for those who enjoy the endeavour, just not my cup of tea... or pack of milk.
 

Agricola

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Heh, poll data doesn't match your expectations so the data must be biased?
Oh come on, that's not at all what I said.

As far as I'm aware, PandoraLive is read by "hardcore" and "casual" users alike, so there's no specific reason to believe the sample is biased.
Yes, it is for the most part, but there are a lot of Pandora users who don't visit that website every month, don't want to participate in polls and even a few who just want to use the Pandora as a emulation/gaming machine and just sometimes download a new application from the repo. Because there was a lot of data asked by the poll and you had to invest some time in it in the span of a single month, I wouldn't be surprised if some "casual" users did not want to participate or didn't even get on the website while the poll was still open. And as those guys seem to have a different way to use the Pandora, I wouldn't be surprised if they also have a different mindset.

So, again, this is a great poll to find out what the active community is made of (which is just what the poll states to do), but I would be a bit surprised if it represented all Pandora users very well in all aspects.
 

mclien

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But with the dimensions being off, how can you print the exact dimensions if the most exact dimensions given are "about the size of the pandora"? Or are the raw numbers still in the file and you just have have to add a unit? I really have no clue as I never 3D printed anything and have no experience with such files.

140 x 84 x 29 mm, as stated at the technical specs tab of this website.
The specs say approximately 140 x 84 x 29 mm, and that's the problem. As WizardStan said, even a small difference and the PCBs don't fit.
Didn't ED mentioned that he has the iges files, too? That might be a better point to start from when you are thinking to produce something.

Blender is more suited for styling.
 

mclien

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as to the whole andriod thing: I personally have no idea why I would wand android. What does these devices have given us: Hardware 10 time powerfull like my al days notebook and still stating "to week to runn a full desktop" WTF???

Oh let's not forget the immense surveilance and data collection stuff.

Nah, I'm looking forward for the desktop I can stuff in my pocket, full root rights and no registration to get software. NONE of any adriod devices is able to give me that (and you get that even out of the box with the pyra!)

Ok, i confess I would even like to have a RJ45 network by default, but that's nearly the only point missing..
 

Not_a_Nick

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Ok, i confess I would even like to have a RJ45 network by default, but that's nearly the only point missing.

Basically this, wireless is the devil's witchcraft and should burn in hell for all eternity.
 

bzar

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Heh, poll data doesn't match your expectations so the data must be biased?
Oh come on, that's not at all what I said.
Well, not exactly. You did voice an assumption that there was a bias in the data: "I suspect most visitors of PandoraLive are "hardcore users"". I suspect you wouldn't had made, or at least voiced, this assumption had the data been more in line with what you'd expect. If it had shown more typical distributions for a general crowd, would you had drawn the conclusion that the sample maybe was representative?

Anyway, I didn't mean this as an accusation that you did that intentionally. As the little chuckle was intended to convey, I just found the conversational trope of "I say X!" "I say Y!" "X is backed by this data" "Well, the data must be biased, then" amusing. Sorry for possible interpretations of snarky undertones above and below. I am trying to convey my point without animosity.

As far as I'm aware, PandoraLive is read by "hardcore" and "casual" users alike, so there's no specific reason to believe the sample is biased.
Yes, it is for the most part, but there are a lot of Pandora users who don't visit that website every month, don't want to participate in polls and even a few who just want to use the Pandora as a emulation/gaming machine and just sometimes download a new application from the repo. Because there was a lot of data asked by the poll and you had to invest some time in it in the span of a single month, I wouldn't be surprised if some "casual" users did not want to participate or didn't even get on the website while the poll was still open. And as those guys seem to have a different way to use the Pandora, I wouldn't be surprised if they also have a different mindset.
Well that's just conjecture. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying there's little non-anecdotal evidence this is true. You believe this to be the case, but I see no reason to assume so. I don't assume to know what kind of people answered the poll other than what the poll provides and that they are either using this forum or following PandoraLive. If there's some piece of evidence that further narrows the focus of the assumed voter demographic I'll gladly take it into account.

So, again, this is a great poll to find out what the active community is made of (which is just what the poll states to do), but I would be a bit surprised if it represented all Pandora users very well in all aspects.
I like to think pandora attracts a certain type of crowd more than others. Within that crowd, the results don't seem all that surprising. But that's my bias, so it shouldn't be taken into account. :)
 

levi

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I personally have no idea why I would wand android. What does these devices have given us: Hardware 10 time powerfull like my al days notebook and still stating "to week to runn a full desktop" WTF???

I don't think that's what they're saying, and indeed it's something Microsoft and others are trying again with a phone you can plug into a screen and keyboard and act as your main PC.  Android is a phone OS front and foremost though, not explicitly designed to work with a full keyboard and mouse, and designed to be permanently on.

Luckily, Linux as a server OS is also designed to be permanently on, but we'll have to wait and see how good the software is as a replacement for your current dedicated phone.  I for one am still eyeing up new phones in the run up to my Pyra purchase, as I'm not expecting it to be quite good enough for a while.
 

ible

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part of the issue IMO is that operating systems are typically becoming more complicated and resource intensive.  the specs on even the lower to mid range smart phones are enough to run good software, if only the operating system would get out of the way...
 

jp10558

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Personally, I have plenty of android devices, for far less money. I'm more interested in a device that doesn't spy on me, and I don't have to share everything I do with either Google or Microsoft. I'm resigned to the NSA, but damn it, I have a choice on companies. So my desktops now run Linux (Scientific Linux 7 to be exact). I'd like a mobile device I have root on also, and I'm to afraid to root my phone due to the cost, and potential loss of data. Plus, Android works badly enough "stock" for me that I don't want to wonder if my issues are due to some config I've done as root!

The pandora on the other hand is pretty solid with stock. I've installed all sorts of PNDs and never had one destabilize another. Would that more OSs were like this! I do however find that for many uses, the screen on the pandora is too small for full desktop use. Things like the OpenVPN configuration tool have critical buttons of the screen... The Mini Menu is great - I hope the Pyra also has the dual personality - minimenu for quick use, and full XFCE (Please keep XFCE, I've even convinced my co-workers that XFCE is the bomb - all because of the Pandora!) as the other choice is very nice.

If Android can be another emulator / pnd, then I'm all for it... whenever it can happen, if someone want's to do it. I have no desire to "dual boot" though.
 

webcraaawler

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Nah, I'm looking forward for the desktop I can stuff in my pocket, full root rights and no registration to get software. NONE of any adriod devices is able to give me that (and you get that even out of the box with the pyra!)


Ok, i confess I would even like to have a RJ45 network by default, but that's nearly the only point missing..



Yes RJ45 would be awesome.  I too am looking for the desktop in my pocket ... with ability to connect a second display when I can.
 

mclien

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Yes RJ45 would be awesome.  I too am looking for the desktop in my pocket ... with ability to connect a second display when I can.

Yeah. as to the Desktop in the pocket and the fact that there is the separat CPU board:


I just sumbled across my old PalmIII PDA and was thinking: hey put the CPU board of the Pyra there, do a fitting mainboard and a e-ink screen, place all connectors in the battery bay and you have essentially and low power device in you pocket (calendar, contacts, ebook reader..). Make it alle fit in the old case.


you can even use the old connector, but use them as USB (keyboard and such). Come home, opn the "batterybay", plug it in the dock and use yout desktop....


THAT would be cool: looks like an ancient PDA, has Desktop power. The PyDAra :)


@jp10558:Desktop is your choice. As soon as Debian is running, just install the Desktop you like best..
 

Natsu

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Probably gave you a hard time  Lol, but congrats on the Pyra and Site.  :)
 
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Grench

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I did not follow the link above - but watch out click happy folks.  It looks suspicious.  youtu.be???


Wrath of Khan - did you get that link right?
 
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