Release First prodcution samples of Pandora keymat

[BackAssward]

^ That's my understanding. The Start/Select/Pandora buttons are on their own GPIO, so they're not affected by the key combo limitation of the QWERTY. People with three thumbs rejoice.

I remember them saying the game controls were not restricted by the Qwerty. Nice thing about the Ctrl and Alt is they are close enough you could hit them both with 1 thumb if you wanted while pressing your third button with the other.

If the gaming controls (I am including select & reset & pandora | ctrl & alt & pandora, which ever you want to call them) all have their own GPIO, you should be able to press them all at once, including ABXY, as well as three additional qwerty keys. MWeston would have to verify that that is the logical interpretation of what he was saying at gp32x. That is my interpretation anyway, Gruso would have to verify that that is his understanding as well or not.

 

[gruso]

Yep, I think we're all on the same page. I'll dig up an official source though.

[edit] This is the best I can do with gp32x down:

"It’s [the logo key] tied directly to a GPIO line (all 3 keys in the middle are) instead of the keypad matrix so that it can be used at any time." (Chip)

http://openpandora.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/snippets/

 

[Tor]

I'm OK with the layout. The fonts I don't care about at all, although the problem with font lineup (Y and D etc.) should probably be fixed.

However, seeing the paragraph character on the 1 key (which wasn't on the other design) made me think a bit. In all the years I've used a computer (and I started using them when there were almost only mechanical teletypes around) I've never, ever, used the paragraph character. It's possibly the least useful character I can think of, maybe with the exception of the 'sun' character on shift-4 on some international keyboards (which I promptly reconfigure to $, as it should be).

I will of course just reconfigure the paragraph character to something useful, but I wondered if anyone has ever used one.. for anything.

 

[lulzfish]

What's the paragraph key do?

 

[Znirk]

What's the paragraph key do?

If you're in any kind of text editor or suchlike, it puts a § glyph on the screen.

 

[BackAssward]

Yep, I think we're all on the same page. I'll dig up an official source though.

[edit] This is the best I can do with gp32x down:

"It’s [the logo key] tied directly to a GPIO line (all 3 keys in the middle are) instead of the keypad matrix so that it can be used at any time." (Chip)

http://openpandora.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/snippets/

To ask a question to clarify: it is both our understanding that ALL gaming controls (d-pad, abxy, select, start, pandora) have individual GPIO's, and thusly all of them could be registered at the same time *as well as* 3 qwerty key presses? I that how you also interpret what MWeston wrote? If so, then yes, we're on the same page and/or paragraph.

Edit: BTW, in retrospect, after posting my original reply to Teajunky, I think he might actually be responding to your "People with three thumbs rejoice" comment about the physical logistics of a three key press, not the available functionality of the Pandora; responding as to *how* someone might do so, not as to which buttons can work in conjunction with which others given the system design. Try rereading his post with that mindset, and see if you agree.

(we'll disregard for the moment that a Pandora on a table could physically have 10 buttons pressed)

 

[hells_dark]

NB : prodcution ?

 

[pelrun]

As far as I know, the keyboard (not the gaming controls) only handles 2 simultaneous keypresses, not 3.

 

[dflemstr]

As far as I know, the keyboard (not the gaming controls) only handles 2 simultaneous keypresses, not 3.

It's 3. I'd have a quote if gp32x were up.

 

[borgqueenx]

the only thing i dont really like is that the spacebar is not in the middle, but almost in the downright corner.

 

[Tom`]

As far as I know, the keyboard (not the gaming controls) only handles 2 simultaneous keypresses, not 3.

It's 3. I'd have a quote if gp32x were up.

Incorrect. See urjaman's post #5 here and MWeston's confirmation in post 22 here.

 

[rmm2131]

rmm21 and God Ginrai:
Please discontinue the argument. rmm21, you are ranting. If you have such a serious problem with the font or layout used that it would affect your order status, please take it up with a member of the Pandora team.

Any more violations of our rules may be removed without notice - violations in more contentious threads being proportionally more likely to receive this attention. PM me or another moderator if you require clarification on any of these points.


As you were. :wink:

Okay Tom. Thanks.
I think an addendum to the rules should be to ban name calling like "ass" as well. It would cut down on ranting and subsequent multi posting too.

Back to discussion.
The choice of layout is really really good. Some speed could be had with that thumb board. One thing to might change would be the START-ALT and SELECT-CTRL keys. Maybe make it Start ALT and Select CTRL and perhaps Start and Select can use different color fonts like dark blue, rust orange, or dark yellow to differentiate from the Fn keys(which have great color already). Something to that effect.

 

[EvilDragon]

Regarding the font:
Don't forget we just can't use ANY font.
We either have to buy it or it has to be a free-to-use one (for commercial purposes).
As we want free stuff on a free device, we used Bitstream, which looks good

And it's not too fat: The keymat is much bigger on your screen, it will be much smaller in your hands

 

[God Ginrai]

I'm a little confused by the presence of Start and Select buttons.
They almost never actually do anything at all in-game.
I suppose they're necessary for emulation, but they're one of the things that really bother me about the GBA / NDS.

THE BUTTONS DON'T DO ANYTHING. Usually.

You obviously don't play games much. While you may be right about the select button, (however I can name many games where the select button comes into play) the start button is one of the most integral part of any controller. It almost always implements "Pause", one of the most important gaming functions, especially on a handheld, where you will need to pause when you aren't playing or move out of the way or any other number of things.

the only thing i dont really like is that the spacebar is not in the middle, but almost in the downright corner.

You'll find yourself liking that. Because the Pandora will normally use a thumb-typing approach, the buttons on the sides will be easier for you to reach than the buttons in the middle.

The choice of layout is really really good. Some speed could be had with that thumb board. One thing to might change would be the START-ALT and SELECT-CTRL keys. Maybe make it Start ALT and Select CTRL and perhaps Start and Select can use different color fonts like dark blue, rust orange, or dark yellow to differentiate from the Fn keys(which have great color already). Something to that effect.

I agree that the Fn Keys have great color. However, if anything needs to change color, (and they won't take that Ctrl and Alt text off of the buttons) I believe that it should be the Ctrl and Alt text for two reasons:

1) These buttons are primarily game buttons
2) Ctrl and Alt are modifier keys, they don't place a letter on the screen, therefore they should be designated as different from the letters. (which are in white)

-God Ginrai

 

[Kyosys]

Since the layout is software controlled and ED was talking about producing alternate keymaps eventually, if there's enough interest I'm sure you whiners will receive your own layout. Personally, I think the font and layout works. The font is simple yet beautiful and the layout is not that big of a deal. I doubt you'll be actually using special characters all that much with the inbuilt keyboard. (I can understand wanting this for the terminal or whatever, but will you really use the terminal that much on the bus, in school or on the way to wherever it is you're taking it, once you're there you can use a fold/rollable usb keyboard)

 

[Nation.A.List]

the only thing i dont really like is that the spacebar is not in the middle, but almost in the downright corner.

You'll find yourself liking that. Because the Pandora will normally use a thumb-typing approach, the buttons on the sides will be easier for you to reach than the buttons in the middle.

I agree re the space bar to the side, but had it been to the left, then the "," & "." keys could have gone to the right where they 'normally' live.

 

[God Ginrai]

Since the layout is software controlled and ED was talking about producing alternate keymaps eventually, if there's enough interest I'm sure you whiners will receive your own layout. Personally, I think the font and layout works. The font is simple yet beautiful and the layout is not that big of a deal. I doubt you'll be actually using special characters all that much with the inbuilt keyboard. (I can understand wanting this for the terminal or whatever, but will you really use the terminal that much on the bus, in school or on the way to wherever it is you're taking it, once you're there you can use a fold/rollable usb keyboard)

I don't have any trouble with the font, I quite like it. Also, I believe that ED's talk about alternate layouts was mostly for people who wanted Dvorak or some layout for their region.

Also, All I want is a seperation of gaming controls and Keyboard in labeling. I don't mind if Control and Alt are mapped to Start and Select in the OS, but that should not be labeled on the Start and select buttons, because they are Gaming Buttons. The gaming buttons should have standard game labeling: A, B, X, Y, L, R, Select, Start. And nothing more.

-God Ginrai

 

[dflemstr]

As far as I know, the keyboard (not the gaming controls) only handles 2 simultaneous keypresses, not 3.

It's 3. I'd have a quote if gp32x were up.

Incorrect. See urjaman's post #5 here and MWeston's confirmation in post 22 here.

Well, OK, ghosting always happens I guess. I dunno why I forgot about that. And with everyone saying that 3 keys can be pressed made me think that it was true, oh well...
Technically you can press an infinite number of keys simultaneously, provided that they together form a square

BTW: This keymap is the best we'll be able to get under the circumstances I think. Please remember that the keys in the middle aren't the ones most easily reached; the ones near the thumbs are, so this is a really well-structured keymap.
That Yen (¥)-symbol and Euro (€)-symbol really strike me as unnecessary though, but it's easily remappable, and so are the brightness keys. Don't put keys you'll never use in the best spots

And the kerning is really bad at places.

 

[God Ginrai]

It's 3. I'd have a quote if gp32x were up.

Incorrect. See urjaman's post #5 here and MWeston's confirmation in post 22 here.

Well, OK, ghosting always happens I guess. I dunno why I forgot about that. And with everyone saying that 3 keys can be pressed made me think that it was true, oh well...
Technically you can press an infinite number of keys simultaneously, provided that they together form a square

BTW: This keymap is the best we'll be able to get under the circumstances I think. Please remember that the keys in the middle aren't the ones most easily reached; the ones near the thumbs are, so this is a really well-structured keymap.
That Yen (¥)-symbol and Euro (€)-symbol really strike me as unnecessary though, but it's easily remappable, and so are the brightness keys. Don't put keys you'll never use in the best spots

And the kerning is really bad at places.

I understand why they would want to put the Euro symbol, seeing as how it's the currency of half the people they are selling to. It's like US people needing the dollar sign. However, I have to agree with you about the Yen symbol, it does seem kindof pointless to me. But for me, that's not a big issue.

-God Ginrai

 

[dflemstr]

I understand why they would want to put the Euro symbol, seeing as how it's the currency of half the people they are selling to. It's like US people needing the dollar sign. However, I have to agree with you about the Yen symbol, it does seem kindof pointless to me. But for me, that's not a big issue.

I'm European too you know...
I also argue that you almost never need a currency symbol. "$" I can understand for its role in programming languages, its general usage globally to symbolize money, and its use in various other circumstances. But how often do you really need your currency symbols? I mean, really need them? I use "EUR", "GBP" and "YEN" like on the stock market if it really comes to that, or just map the symbols to some really weird, hard-to-reach key.