Release First prodcution samples of Pandora keymat

[WizardStan]

Well, I took a good look at the keypad for the first time, and ... I'm not sure what the purpose of Fn+J is. The apostrophe is clearly Fn+A, and Fn+H has the backtick, so ... what is it?

backtick, open single quote, close single quote. They're all (supposed to be) unique characters, although this is the first time I've seen both open and close single quotes on a keyboard.

 

[lulzfish]

But single quote is over there by double quote. Are there two backticks then, or are they just oddly arranged?

 

[God Ginrai]

Ah, remapping it to Print Screen is a great idea!

Print Screen isn't a standard function in Linux like it is in Windows. Also, even in Windows, it only works under certain circumstances. For example, it won't work in a lot of games. Please don't suggest remapping that key to a function. -_-'

-God Ginrai

I don't know my Linux key-mappings, but is there really no way to tie a key-press to the running of some shell script? If that's possible (and I'd be surprised if it weren't), I'm sure someone could port a simple screen-capture utility.

What's the point of having something that will only work in some circumstances? Also, couldn't we just map that to one of the game buttons then?

Print Screen isn't a standard function in Linux like it is in Windows. Also, even in Windows, it only works under certain circumstances. For example, it won't work in a lot of games. Please don't suggest remapping that key to a function. -_-'

*hits print screen*
seems to take a screen shot to me
I'm pretty sure it relies on the window manager.

That's my point. It's not native to Linux. It has to be implemented by the WM or DE. We're not using Gnome, nor are we using an old version of KDE. We're using Matchbox. Do we even know if it has that functionality? I know Xfce doesn't, and it's more commonly used than Matchbox.

-God Ginrai

 

[Chip]

That's my point. It's not native to Linux.

I guess it just goes to show that even Linux ain't perfect. :wink:

Printscreen is incredibly useful. It can't be that hard to build the functionality into the WM if it isn't there already. Perhaps dumping the frame buffer to an image file? There has to be something useful we can do with that "section" key.

 

[WizardStan]

But single quote is over there by double quote. Are there two backticks then, or are they just oddly arranged?

No, there are two single quotes: an open quote and a close quote. Like I said, the three keys appear to be

backtick, open single quote, close single quote. They're all (supposed to be) unique characters, although this is the first time I've seen both open and close single quotes on a keyboard.

or some order there-of. That's just a guess though, based on limited information. It's entirely possible they messed up and really did put an extra character on there that shouldn't have been.

 

[dflemstr]

But single quote is over there by double quote. Are there two backticks then, or are they just oddly arranged?

No, there are two single quotes: an open quote and a close quote. Like I said, the three keys appear to be

backtick, open single quote, close single quote. They're all (supposed to be) unique characters, although this is the first time I've seen both open and close single quotes on a keyboard.

or some order there-of. That's just a guess though, based on limited information. It's entirely possible they messed up and really did put an extra character on there that shouldn't have been.

Ehm, am I missing something here, or aren't those keys (with their Unicode names):
[Fn]+[A] → APOSTROPHE ' (used for don't, won't, I'm, he's etc)
[Fn]+ → QUOTATION MARK " (Used for "quotations")
[Fn]+[H] → GRAVE ACCENT ` (Used for languages like French: "C'est à la France", à, è, ù, etc; can also be used standalone like this: `)
[Fn]+[J] → ACUTE ACCENT ´ (Used for all kinds of languages: "Idé", "mangé", í, ú, ý, ń etc; standalone: ´)

The accents aren't quotes at least, that's for sure; I suspect that they are 'silent' keys.

EDIT: Here are the open and close quotes:
LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK “
RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK ”
DOUBLE LOW-9 QUOTATION MARK „ (for German etc)
DOUBLE HIGH-REVERSED-9 QUOTATION MARK ‟

LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK ‘
RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK ’
SINGLE LOW-9 QUOTATION MARK ‚
SINGLE HIGH-REVERSED-9 QUOTATION MARK ‛


I like playing with Unicode

 

[WizardStan]

[Fn]+[H] => GRAVE ACCENT ` (Used for languages like French: "C'est à la France", à, è, ù, etc)
[Fn]+[J] => ACUTE ACCENT ´ (Used for all kinds of languages: "Idé", "mangé", í, ú, ý, ń etc)

AHAH! The mystery is solved. Yes, that makes sense.
As you mentioned, there are left/right single quotes which technically have a purpose in non-accented languages, which is what I was basing my thoughts on. It honestly didn't occur to me that they would be used for accenting, but now that it's been said it's perfectly obvious. Thanks!
Next question: does the grave accent that we have here behave in the same way as a backtick? Or will we have to get a backtick a different way?

 

[dflemstr]

[Fn]+[H] => GRAVE ACCENT ` (Used for languages like French: "C'est à la France", à, è, ù, etc)
[Fn]+[J] => ACUTE ACCENT ´ (Used for all kinds of languages: "Idé", "mangé", í, ú, ý, ń etc)

AHAH! The mystery is solved. Yes, that makes sense.
As you mentioned, there are left/right single quotes which technically have a purpose in non-accented languages, which is what I was basing my thoughts on. It honestly didn't occur to me that they would be used for accenting, but now that it's been said it's perfectly obvious. Thanks!
Next question: does the grave accent that we have here behave in the same way as a backtick? Or will we have to get a backtick a different way?

See my last post again
The backtick basically is an accent that has a space character as its "base character" instead of an "a" or "e" or something like that, so you really shouldn't be using backticks since they aren't a "real" character.
Then there's the quotes you were referring to before; added those to my last post as well.

 

[WizardStan]

The backtick basically is an accent that has a space character as its "base character" instead of an "a" or "e" or something like that, so you really shouldn't be using backticks since they aren't a "real" character.
Then there's the quotes you were referring to before; added those to my last post as well.

The backtick (the character under the tilde on (at least my English) keyboards) is used in Perl and sh as a shortcut to exec. It is very much a real character. I can type it, `see`?
The question still remains, is the stand-alone grave accent the same literal character as the backtick character that I type when hitting the key to the left of the 1 key? Or at least functionally the same.

 

[dflemstr]

The backtick basically is an accent that has a space character as its "base character" instead of an "a" or "e" or something like that, so you really shouldn't be using backticks since they aren't a "real" character.
Then there's the quotes you were referring to before; added those to my last post as well.

The backtick (the character under the tilde on (at least my English) keyboards) is used in Perl and sh as a shortcut to exec. It is very much a real character. I can type it, `see`?
The question still remains, is the stand-alone grave accent the same literal character as the backtick character that I type when hitting the key to the left of the 1 key? Or at least functionally the same.

Yes, the key you are typing (as stated in my previous post) is actually the standalone grave accent in combination with space/nothing (as opposed to a letter). So, the "backtick"-character is actually the standalone grave accent character. They are the same thing.

EDIT: but you will probably have to type [Fn]+[H] [Space] to get the standalone "backtick" character, since the accent key usually is "silent" (aka a "dead key").

 

[God Ginrai]

That's my point. It's not native to Linux.

I guess it just goes to show that even Linux ain't perfect. :wink:

Printscreen is incredibly useful. It can't be that hard to build the functionality into the WM if it isn't there already. Perhaps dumping the frame buffer to an image file? There has to be something useful we can do with that "section" key.

I don't see why you guys are advocating replacing the Section symbol when apparently we have accent characters (which should be obtained through compose) on the keyboard. I understand keeping the backtick (grave) character, but the acute accent has no need.

-God Ginrai

 

[WizardStan]

Yes, the key you are typing (as stated in my previous post) is actually the standalone grave accent in combination with space/nothing (as opposed to a letter).

You said no such thing. You said the backtick is *basically* an accent, but that doesn't mean they are equivalent. The backtick is ascii character 0x60. If you enter a stand alone grave accent, does it produce ascii character 0x60, or is it a separate unicode character that just looks the same? Looking it up in the unicode table (which I really should have done in the first place) it is, in fact, 0x0060, so yay!

 

[dflemstr]

Yes, the key you are typing (as stated in my previous post) is actually the standalone grave accent in combination with space/nothing (as opposed to a letter).

You said no such thing. You said the backtick is *basically* an accent, but that doesn't mean they are equivalent. The backtick is ascii character 0x60. If you enter a stand alone grave accent, does it produce ascii character 0x60, or is it a separate unicode character that just looks the same? Looking it up in the unicode table (which I really should have done in the first place) it is, in fact, 0x0060, so yay!

Sorry for the confusion. However, what I said had to be technically correct (otherwise, others would have flamed me) so I couldn't have said that "the backtick and the accent character are the same character", since the backtick only is defined in very few charsets, and the official name for the character is "a baseless accent grave" or similar.

 

[Chip]

I don't see why you guys are advocating replacing the Section symbol when apparently we have accent characters (which should be obtained through compose) on the keyboard.

Because everybody uses (or would use) printscreen, and nobody uses "section". There are only 43 buttons on the keyboard, so every character or function is valuable. The various accent characters are useful to some people. Those who speak a language that uses those accents will use those keys every day. Nobody anywhere will use the section key regularly, if at all. You'd be better off with a ☺ key. At least that might see some use.

 

[God Ginrai]

I don't see why you guys are advocating replacing the Section symbol when apparently we have accent characters (which should be obtained through compose) on the keyboard.

Because everybody uses (or would use) printscreen, and nobody uses "section". There are only 43 buttons on the keyboard, so every character or function is valuable. The various accent characters are useful to some people. Those who speak a language that uses those accents will use those keys every day. Nobody anywhere will use the section key regularly, if at all. You'd be better off with a ☺ key. At least that might see some use.

Those are baseless accents. Nobody uses baseless accents except for the backtick.

 

[WizardStan]

Those are baseless accents. Nobody uses baseless accents except for the backtick.

How are you supposed to get the accented characters otherwise? Compose + accent + letter = accented letter, does it not?

 

[dflemstr]

Those are baseless accents. Nobody uses baseless accents except for the backtick.

How are you supposed to get the accented characters otherwise? Compose + accent + letter = accented letter, does it not?

To both of you: As I've tried to make clear many times before, those keys probably are dead keys. Plenty of users will be extremely thankful because they were added.

 

[WizardStan]

To both of you: As I've tried to make clear many times before, those keys probably are dead keys. Plenty of users will be extremely thankful because they were added.

It was a rhetorical question, written in such a way to make GG rethink his statement. You didn't need to repeat what you've already said, I'm certain he would have figured it out as soon as he read my question.

 

[God Ginrai]

To both of you: As I've tried to make clear many times before, those keys probably are dead keys. Plenty of users will be extremely thankful because they were added.

It was a rhetorical question, written in such a way to make GG rethink his statement. You didn't need to repeat what you've already said, I'm certain he would have figured it out as soon as he read my question.

I knew about that way, but you could also make it so that Compose + Letter scrolls through the possibilities for that letter.

Those are baseless accents. Nobody uses baseless accents except for the backtick.

How are you supposed to get the accented characters otherwise? Compose + accent + letter = accented letter, does it not?

To both of you: As I've tried to make clear many times before, those keys probably are dead keys. Plenty of users will be extremely thankful because they were added.

What's the point in having dead keys if not all of the accents are represented? I see them as pointless unless you make room to represent all of the accents.

-God Ginrai

 

[dflemstr]

What's the point in having dead keys if not all of the accents are represented? I see them as pointless unless you make room to represent all of the accents.

What accents are you missing? We have ` ´ ~ ^ (the last two will probably be dead too); the only things missing would be the Scandinavian accents like ¨ and the circle over å (can't find the character right now), and the middle European accents like ¸ and the thing over ň. All of which can be mapped easily.