Action button labels

[Caine]

1) SEGA-style 

1b) variant with underlines to distinguish game buttons from keyboard keys

Plain and Simple, these will work well.

I agree. Good contestants.

4) Numbers / dice symbols

A good, unique option. I would be perfectly fine with this.

 Me too.

Why didn't I think of putting the letters with the colors before? This is a great idea, however I believe the layout would work better as:

       Y

    M    B

C    G

   R

That way, the bottom row is the primary colors of light, and the top row is the primary colors of pigment.

Arghh, please select slightly less bright versions of these colours. This hurts my eyes.

8) Playing cards

Obviously I support this one since I suggested it.

I dislike the fact that the red R stands out like a sore thumb. How about:    R

  ♥   B

♦  ♣

  ♠

9) Directions + extra buttons

         X1

    N     X2

W    E

    S

 Honestly, the cardinal directions bother me. But the X1 and X2 are the reasons I really don't like this setup. There's no logical progression or common pattern between all of the buttons.

I don't like those either. I would sooner couple these with clockwise (↻) and anti-clockwise (↺) instead of x1 and x2. But then I would also like to see symbolic versions for all the other ones, e.g. ➢ for east. Unfortunately, the unicode table doesn't have north, east, south, west versions of these.

10) Chess

I don't really dislike or like this one. Although I do believe a different ordering of the symbols is needed if we use this. One other question, these symbols are a lot more complex than all the others. Would they be easy to make out on the buttons? And would they be more costly to inscribe on the buttons?

I have no idea what exactly would be a logical progression for these, but symbol complexity is certainly a very valid point. It is not my favourite anyway.

 

[Tenka]

I feel a poll is not a good idea.  I guess it's fine when ED really wants one, but please don't say a poll must happen.  Our arguments throughout this thread have been made to sway whoever reads them, but ED is the one we really want to decide from our presented arguments.  The majority of the people with accounts who happen to be looking at this thread should not be the people in absolute power of how this button layout turns out.  If we always did selective majority polls then every day would be pizza party day and we'd never be able to eat anything but pizza.  Please just let ED decide from the opinions we've seeded.

 

[God Ginrai]

I pretty much agree with God Ginrai on this it seems.

Except with [10], the chess pieces.

I'm not so keen on these for just one reason, I don't think those picts are too familiar with so many people.

The playing cards, for example, I'm sure are a lot more familiar and if you asked someone to press [diamond], they would do so.

But those chess graphics... Ask someone to press [Rook], and they might have a little delay

Not so many people might play chess and know these, even myself the King/Queen is not immediate ... the Queen is the top one, right? The more curly crown?

Edit: That said, how often are you going to be 'asking' someone to press a button?

If you were telling someone verbally, it's an issue.

If you telling someone to press a certain button though via an on screen prompt, or print form, in which case you'd be displaying the actual graphic anyway, it's all good...

...In which case, any style would be ok really and my argument above void. As a user would simply be matching the symbol, simple as that, which I don't think anyone would have problems with

No, because you are forgetting when users want to discuss the game or buttons, they don't have an easy way to type that image. They would have to refer to them as "rook", etc. The only reason I didn't challenge whether people would know the names of the chess pieces is because chess is a widespread game, and I didn't think I could fully support an argument that it wouldn't be well known enough.

-God Ginrai

 

[God Ginrai]

Why didn't I think of putting the letters with the colors before? This is a great idea, however I believe the layout would work better as:

       Y

    M    B

C    G

   R

That way, the bottom row is the primary colors of light, and the top row is the primary colors of pigment.

Arghh, please select slightly less bright versions of these colours. This hurts my eyes.

 I agree they are rather bright. I was simply choosing the basic versions of the color to illustrate the concept. :\

8) Playing cards

Obviously I support this one since I suggested it.

I dislike the fact that the red R stands out like a sore thumb. How about:    R

  ♥   B

♦  ♣

  ♠

Actually, I felt it was better for the black suits and red suits to alternate themselves in the diamond. Also, Heart and Spade are the most popular suits, (they even have games named after them) so I wanted them in the A and B positions. I was envisioning this:
    R

  ♣   B

♦  ♥

  ♠

-God Ginrai

 

[slaeshjag]

Is R really a good label? We'll have R1 and R2 on the shoulder...

 

[Caine]

No, because you are forgetting when users want to discuss the game or buttons, they don't have an easy way to type that image. They would have to refer to them as "rook", etc. The only reason I didn't challenge whether people would know the names of the chess pieces is because chess is a widespread game, and I didn't think I could fully support an argument that it wouldn't be well known enough.

Had to look up "rook". I was still referring to the piece as tower


Furthermore I always have to check which one is king and which the queen for some reason.

Actually, I felt it was better for the black suits and red suits to alternate themselves in the diamond. Also, Heart and Spade are the most popular suits, (they even have games named after them) so I wanted them in the A and B positions. I was envisioning this:

R

♣ B

♦ ♥


♠

      R

   ♣   B

♦   ♥


   ♠

Hmmm.... not sure about the colour progression like this... oh well, could work.

Though naturally the conflict between the R button and the R key remain. Even more so for B as black will often be the default font colour.

 

[God Ginrai]

Is R really a good label? We'll have R1 and R2 on the shoulder...

It's a Red button. R is just a cue for those who are colorblind. We can also use R and B

-God Ginrai

 

[_wb_]

My opinion:

1) SEGA-style
Confusing coming from Pandora, A and X are swapped. 
 
2) Pandora layout + C and Z

2b) Pandora layout + C1 and C2

Good for backwards compatibility, but does not look logical.

Both 1) and 2) also suffer from potential confusion between action buttons and keyboard keys.

 
 
3) Greek letters that look a bit like Playstation layout

This is my own proposal and I still like it a lot. It looks very good and is great for PSX/PSP emulation.


 
4) Numbers / dice symbols

Too little to distinguish the buttons from one another, no character


5) Colors
It may be a good idea to add color to the buttons, whatever symbols are used. Just using the first letter of the color as a symbol is not a bad idea but it is English-centric (other languages have different words for the colors) and confusion with keyboard keys is still possible ("press R" ... "no not that one, try the red one!" ... "oh no it's the right shoulder button!")
 
6) Caine's symbols

Could work if the symbols are somehow made to look like they have a common style, now it looks too random.


7) Connected dots

The proposal needs refinement, it could work but I'm not yet convinced.
 
8) Playing cards

No. Would work well for 4 buttons, but not for 6. Also those symbols feel too "specialized" (see 10).
 
9) Directions + extra buttons

N S W E can be confused with keyboard keys, it's also English-centric especially when less abbreviated. I associate directions with the dpad; while some games use the action buttons as a secondary dpad, usually the action buttons are not used for directions. "Press West to jump and South to shoot" sounds weird to me.


10) Chess

The symbols are too similar to distinguish them quickly, and they feel too "specialized" -- people may think the Pyra is used specifically to play chess.

11) Media buttons

I'm not really in favor of this, it makes it look like media playback is more important than other applications (e.g. gaming).

12) PgUp/PgDn/Home/End/whatever

It would be nice if those labels would also be somewhere (small print on the button itself, or maybe on the case, next to the button?). To have only this as a button label is not a good idea in my opinion.

For me, something like this would be ideal:

          Φ
     Δ       ψ
 

Π       Ω
      χ

 

[Caine]

What about the media buttons matching more closely with the playstation shapes, i.e.:
 
            [◀◀]
      [ ▶ ]      [▶▶]
[ ■ ]      [  ●  ]
     [❚❚]

<edit>Maybe I have seen them too often, I'm starting to get used to those greek symbols of yours

Though I would prefer a set which I can actually remember by name.

</edit>

 

[Fzero]

No, because you are forgetting when users want to discuss the game or buttons, they don't have an easy way to type that image. They would have to refer to them as "rook", etc. The only reason I didn't challenge whether people would know the names of the chess pieces is because chess is a widespread game, and I didn't think I could fully support an argument that it wouldn't be well known enough.

Had to look up "rook". I was still referring to the piece as tower


Furthermore I always have to check which one is king and which the queen for some reason.

Same here, this is why I'm not too keen on this style, and sure we wouldn't be the only ones not too clued up with chess piece names and their picts.

Even though I appreciate chess is a widely played game, it's still not that known.

Certainly younger people I'd reckon too, I think it's a game that doesn't pull as many of the younger generation as it does say mine or elder.

And that horse, what it that, I know it's not Bishop... but I honestly cannot think what that one is called. I always call it "that horse one" or "the L-shape moving piece"

 

[Caine]

And that horse, what it that, I know it's not Bishop... but I honestly cannot think what that one is called. I always call it "that horse one" or "the L-shape moving piece"

That would be the knight. In Dutch it is actually called the equivalent of horse (paard). Same with the rook we call it tower (toren). Hence my confusion.

 

[Fzero]

Why didn't I think of putting the letters with the colors before? This is a great idea, however I believe the layout would work better as:


       Y


    M    B

C    G

   R


That way, the bottom row is the primary colors of light, and the top row is the primary colors of pigment.

Arghh, please select slightly less bright versions of these colours. This hurts my eyes.

I really like this one.

I think those colours are ok too ... If we went with the all black button and just the letter shown in the colour.

That would IMO look nicer, eliminate the problem of the colour hurting your eyes, as would only be thin letter lines of it, plus against black would not be so bad as they show on this page against the lighter background

[assuming you see this page as I do, a light background...you might be using dark theme or plugin I guess]

Also, having the full button in the colour would look 'cheaper' I think, more like a toy.

Definitely would prefer all black button with colour letters cut into them

In terms of colour style...

This...

Over this...

And that horse, what it that, I know it's not Bishop... but I honestly cannot think what that one is called. I always call it "that horse one" or "the L-shape moving piece"

That would be the knight. In Dutch it is actually called the equivalent of horse (paard). Same with the rook we call it tower (toren). Hence my confusion.

Here too, it is not that uncommon for the rook to be referred to as the tower

 

[Caine]

Fully agree with you on only colouring the letter/symbol over the whole button.

 

[Klumpen]

       ⌂
   ⚇    ←


≡    ✓

   ✗

Oh, you guys are gathering random symbols again.

     


    ☣   ⚠


卐    ☠  ☢                          

    ☭

 

[Agrajag]

Or just say A Button and A Key... *facepalms*

This is exactly what I've been thinking the whole time while reading through this thread. Action buttons are buttons, keyboard keys are keys, and disambiguation be damned!


Sticking with ABCXYZ buttons makes a lot more sense to me than arbitrarily using Greek letters, dice, polygons or other sets of symbols that have different names in different countries and are awkward to talk or type about.


If it therefore comes down to either the Sega 6 button layout or Pandora 4 button layout with 2 extra buttons, it presumably depends on how badly existing software is broken by using Sega style, and whether it can be patched to accommodate the change in button positions.

 

[Klumpen]

"The Weatherman":

    ☁   ☄
         ☃                  

    ☼

"Flower Power":

     ☬    ☯

⚘      ☺   ⚯

     ☮

"The Musician":

      ♮     ♯

♬       ♪    ♭

      ♩

"Office Hero":

    ☏    ⚐

☐      ☒   ⚑

     ☑

 

[T.T.]

I feel a poll is not a good idea.  I guess it's fine when ED really wants one, but please don't say a poll must happen.  Our arguments throughout this thread have been made to sway whoever reads them, but ED is the one we really want to decide from our presented arguments.  The majority of the people with accounts who happen to be looking at this thread should not be the people in absolute power of how this button layout turns out.  If we always did selective majority polls then every day would be pizza party day and we'd never be able to eat anything but pizza.  Please just let ED decide from the opinions we've seeded.

I think a poll would help. It allows ED to see what part of the community thinks. Also, one can participate in the poll without reading this thread. All they need is pictures of the layout and pick which one they like.

 

[Tenka]

I feel a poll is not a good idea.  I guess it's fine when ED really wants one, but please don't say a poll must happen.  Our arguments throughout this thread have been made to sway whoever reads them, but ED is the one we really want to decide from our presented arguments.  The majority of the people with accounts who happen to be looking at this thread should not be the people in absolute power of how this button layout turns out.  If we always did selective majority polls then every day would be pizza party day and we'd never be able to eat anything but pizza.  Please just let ED decide from the opinions we've seeded.

I think a poll would help. It allows ED to see what part of the community thinks. Also, one can participate in the poll without reading this thread. All they need is pictures of the layout and pick which one they like.

This thread is already a very good example of what we think, and we are the only ones who would be voting in a pole, unless people who haven't read all of our comments make an instant account to vote on this poll they haven't read about and still only have their original opinion about.  ED could also simply read this thread, our rationalizations and arguments, and then decide which he thinks is the best idea.

 

[Neelix]

"The Musician":

      ♮     ♯

♬       ♪    ♭

      ♩

This set appeals to me. I probably would have done it this way though:

      ♮      ♯

 

 

[Wally]

I don't think I want to have to find a treble clef everytime

I'm all for color coded buttons though, maybe have the SNES or PS1 inspired colours in their respective orders for buttons?