Action button labels

[wardred]

Yes, the Pandora layout is different from all other major consoles.

And to add more confusion, you want to make the Pyra layout different from the Pandora layout as well.

Does not compute.

I've been playing a lot of SNES games, even before I had the Pandora.

I've never actually remembered what button was where, as most of the games didn't need remembering the buttons, you just got used to the control and played.

There aren't that many games showing some button sequences which you need to press in the correct order.

I forget, but wasn't one of the reasons the button layout was different than any other console because the console manufacturers either copyrighted or trademarked their layouts?

One of the handiest applications I remember for gaming was back in the win9x erra for the sidewinder joysticks. It gave you a graphic of the joystick, let you assign keyboard keys to the buttons, then save the layout with a name. I forget if you had the thing running if it would automatically detect when you ran a particular game and switch the keymap for you, or if you had to bring up the joystick app and switch it manually before you started the game.

I've mostly done keyboard and mouse gaming on my PCs since then so I don't know what's out there currently, but I'd be surprised if there weren't similar apps for PCs today.

How difficult would it be to have an app that did that for the Pyra? Remapping the joystick buttons on the fly like this wouldn't interfere with the keyboard, would it?

I think leaving the button layout as similar to the Pandora's as possible, and having an app like this would be the best of all worlds.

Edit: Removed a redundant handiest.

 

[God Ginrai]

Hey EvilDragon, just wanted to remind you that I have addressed your question of how to fit a normal 6-button layout. If you have any questions, I'm willing to discuss further.

-God Ginrai

 

[Natsu]

Well, a lot of gamepads are using ABXY that way. I don't think they would all pay fees just for a certain layout. Not only

that, we are using 6 buttons now.

 

[Tenka]

Should help some with their confusion of which directions are North, South, East, and West.

Sarcastic?  If I were saying that I would have been sarcastic.  I've also been wondering why the dots were necessary, but didn't want to ask in case I skipped something obvious.

One of the handiest applications I remember for gaming was back in the win9x erra for the sidewinder joysticks. It gave you a graphic of the joystick, let you assign keyboard keys to the buttons, then save the layout with a name. I forget if you had the thing running if it would automatically detect when you ran a particular game and switch the keymap for you, or if you had to bring up the joystick app and switch it manually before you started the game.

I used the same software with my Logitech controller, it was incredible, like Game Jackal and x360ce put together.  It spoiled me and I hated that I couldn't use the same program for my Hammerhead FX controller.

 

[Neelix]

Neelix, if you are reading this, I would like to hear what you are thinking about this (this is why: http://boards.openpa...oll-2/?p=322874, http://boards.openpa...01-02/?p=149553).

I have used that method [the parentheses format, remark] to indicate a gaming button over a keyboard key myself, but it only works in a textual medium, so what I said in the first of my linked posts still applies. This would only be a visual difference, not a conceptual one, which while I suppose is better than nothing at all, means that it really doesn't address my original points.


[...]

If one buton looks like it inputs "A", and the other looks like it inputs "(A)", then isn't that a LARGE ENOUGH difference? Or did you mean that it is not a conceptual difference because it does not help with spoken communication (at least at a distance)? I think I'm missing some details here, or interpreting something wrongly.

Perhaps an example would help. If I see "(A)" I don't normally think "A in Brackets", I think "A". Visually they are different and if I notice at the time that there is an "(A)" key I will probably make the correct association, but otherwise what will stick in my memory will be "A". If you want me to remember it as "(A)" you need to make clear to me beforehand that there is a important distinction between "A" and "(A)" in this context. (whatever the context happens to be)


Again, I will use the puzzle game "Einstein" as an example.

This game gave me a lot of trouble,  because it uses three versions of the numbers 1-6 as distinct symbols.  I was constantly running into problems like "Hang on, was that Dice face 4  or Numeral 4?"    It took me some time before I could consistently remember to give them distinct mental labels in that context.


- Neelix

 

[wardred]

I used the same software with my Logitech controller, it was incredible, like Game Jackal and x360ce put together.  It spoiled me and I hated that I couldn't use the same program for my Hammerhead FX controller.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers it! I was really disappointed when I finally abandoned it because I no longer had a sound card or motherboard with a joystick controller jack. I seem to recall, at the time, having difficulty finding an analog to usb joystick adapter. . . but I may not have tried all that hard. . . and I don't know if the software was ever upgraded for newer OSes.

Cheers Tenka!

 

[Saber]

Should help some with their confusion of which directions are North, South, East, and West.

Sarcastic?  If I were saying that I would have been sarcastic.  I've also been wondering why the dots were necessary, but didn't want to ask in case I skipped something obvious.

You'd have to ask TrashyMG and Yoyobuae about the dots on the action buttons. Up dot, Down dot, Right dot, Left dot doesn't make any sense to me either.

Maybe they'll explain how it works with an example hopefully.

One of the handiest applications I remember for gaming was back in the win9x erra for the sidewinder joysticks. It gave you a graphic of the joystick, let you assign keyboard keys to the buttons, then save the layout with a name. I forget if you had the thing running if it would automatically detect when you ran a particular game and switch the keymap for you, or if you had to bring up the joystick app and switch it manually before you started the game.

I used the same software with my Logitech controller, it was incredible, like Game Jackal and x360ce put together.  It spoiled me and I hated that I couldn't use the same program for my Hammerhead FX controller.

The application sounds a lot like what SteelSeries uses for their Game Controller. Decent gamepad with superb mapping software.

 

[Yoyobuae]

Should help some with their confusion of which directions are North, South, East, and West.

Sarcastic?  If I were saying that I would have been sarcastic.  I've also been wondering why the dots were necessary, but didn't want to ask in case I skipped something obvious.

You'd have to ask TrashyMG and Yoyobuae about the dots on the action buttons. Up dot, Down dot, Right dot, Left dot doesn't make any sense to me either.

Maybe they'll explain how it works with an example hopefully.

To offer stronger correlation with the guihints icons:


        

       

        

In that case the dots are redundant, but maybe there could also be icons which omit the letters and only use the dots:

  

     

  

   

Then there's no chance of confusing the button icons with the keyboard letters.

Of course, if only text can be displayed then the button letters would be used. Or maybe use Up dot, Down dot, Right dot, Left dot, Upleft dot, Downleft dot to name the buttons (sounds a bit clunky though).

 

[TrashyMG]

^ h34r:  Ninja'd, You saved me a lot of time explaining things... It's only helpful for guihints and can be very helpful for games ported to several systems like the Pandora and Pyra or other handheld especially if the button layout is different to keep some sense of what button should be pressed. In theory the Pyra wouldn't even need the dots, but it does help correlate it a bit.

 

[Natsu]

I really think the dots should be arrow heads then you can have something like this <AB>Y^Xv.

 

[TrashyMG]

I really think the dots should be arrow heads then you can have something like this <AB>Y^Xv.

 

Well the dot on a circle icons works well as a representation of specific buttons.. Arrow heads/chevrons could be mistaken for a d-pad direction.

 

[DrHAX]

Maybe I'm an idiot but what about Greek with coloured buttons?

Sure most of my gaming time was spent on the GameCube whose controller did a decent job at that. Also with coloured buttons you have a sprite with the colour instead of the symbol. Idk. I barely knew the GC buttons other the green red purple the two greys X and Y and then the shoulders. I don't know it's something I haven't seen discussed really. Could somebody explain why such a thing isn't favourable?

Sent from my Z665C using Tapatalk

 

[God Ginrai]

Maybe I'm an idiot but what about Greek with coloured buttons?

Sure most of my gaming time was spent on the GameCube whose controller did a decent job at that. Also with coloured buttons you have a sprite with the colour instead of the symbol. Idk. I barely knew the GC buttons other the green red purple the two greys X and Y and then the shoulders. I don't know it's something I haven't seen discussed really. Could somebody explain why such a thing isn't favourable?

Sent from my Z665C using Tapatalk

Because color-blind people exist.

-God Ginrai

 

[SNESFAN]

I'm red/green blue/purple yellow/green green/orange and brown/red colorblind. I know that sounds like a lot, and yes I can actually see colors, I just can't identify them correctly.

 

[God Ginrai]

I'm red/green blue/purple yellow/green green/orange and brown/red colorblind. I know that sounds like a lot, and yes I can actually see colors, I just can't identify them correctly.

Yes, but that's the problem. The reason for using colors is for identification.

-God Ginrai

 

[levi]

But some people can't read, and wouldn't be able to identify the buttons from the letters. Granted, the Pyra probably isn't going to be designed for those users - the support would be a nightmare - but there's nothing wrong with having multiple ways to identify buttons, as long as more than one is used in software when it tries to communicate which buttons to press, and you don't object to the key for aesthetic reasons.

 

[God Ginrai]

But some people can't read, and wouldn't be able to identify the buttons from the letters. Granted, the Pyra probably isn't going to be designed for those users - the support would be a nightmare - but there's nothing wrong with having multiple ways to identify buttons, as long as more than one is used in software when it tries to communicate which buttons to press, and you don't object to the key for aesthetic reasons.

Whoa, I didn't say no to colors. I said no to "Greek and colors". Because Greek can not stand on its own. Latin characters, numbers, etc. combined with colors would work just fine.

-God Ginrai

 

[Saber]

I really think the dots should be arrow heads then you can have something like this <AB>Y^Xv.

 

Well the dot on a circle icons works well as a representation of specific buttons.. Arrow heads/chevrons could be mistaken for a d-pad direction.

Instead of arrows or dots what about making them large triangles with the Latin letter of each buttton defined to almost touching the polygon's inner three walls?

Reuleaux Triangle or this?

 

[TrashyMG]

Instead of arrows or dots what about making them large triangles with the Latin letter of each buttton defined to almost touching the polygon's inner three walls?

Well to me if the buttons gets cramped then it's just messy... Personally I could take or leave the guihints dots or otherwise.. I was just explaining the reasoning behind it and why it's not entirely a bad idea.

 

[Saber]

Instead of arrows or dots what about making them large triangles with the Latin letter of each buttton defined to almost touching the polygon's inner three walls?

Well to me if the buttons gets cramped then it's just messy... Personally I could take or leave the guihints dots or otherwise.. I was just explaining the reasoning behind it and why it's not entirely a bad idea.

Sure, too much of a good thing so to speak. The alternative could be stylizing the Latin lettering as someone before suggested.