Unofficial Keyboard Layouts

[God Ginrai]

US International revisited.

Why does your layout have 2 Alts, 2 Alt Grs, and a single key space and somehow still miss a Meta or Super key? Also, without an Fn key, how do you overload the [ key with four things? ([,{,Brightness Down, Bluetooth Toggle)

-God Ginrai

 

[_wb_]

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/a6ba8a79c47757d5a62a70132e7594d8

These are the principles I used:

- start from standard US QWERTY, try to fit it in the limited number of keys in a sensible way, using the Pandora layout as inspiration

- add keys from a standard German keyboard for Ü Ä Ö ß µ etc

- the ASDF-row has most major dead-key diacritics when used with AltGr-Shift. So you don't need the compose key for áäàâǎñāåø and similar Latin letters with diacritics, you can just press e.g. AltGr-Shift-D A  to get à. This is not necessarily easier than having to use compose (e.g. Compose Backtic A to get à), but it's easier in the sense that you don't have to know the compose combinations, and also it may mean that you don't need a compose key at all so you can have two shift keys on the keyboard. I think that these diacritics cover most of the Latin-based languages. E.g. typing French with this layout should be easier than on the Pandora.

I couldn't use different colors for the labels in that editor, but of course the AltGr labels should be in a different color.

Home/End/PgUp/PgDn are like on the Pandora, the two extra buttons are Insert and Delete. With AltGr they are keypad_plus and keypad_minus.

The layout also takes into account that Askarus wants to swap Y and Z

 

[szr]

Ineserting a bracket can accidentally the 3g if up there.

If AltGr has to be pressed to toggle 3G then I don't see how that would really be a problem, since pressing it by itself or just with shift will act like the normal square/curl bracket/brace keys. I actually like Caine's layout the best out of all the ones I have seen, it feels to most natural to me.

 

[Caine]

I can't find []{} on your proposed layout?

EDIT: Nervermind, I just saw them up there.

I was actually having some doubts about their placement. At first I had them swapped with -_=+ which is another viable alternative.

Other candidates were the Pound, double bar and not signs, but I liked the cluster: Dollar, Euro, Pound, Cent. It somehow felt more

natural to shift those downwards keeping them in the vicinity of their usual placement.

Other ideas I had were to swap the AltGr symbols on the J and K keys such that the more common ;: and '" are all close to their "usual" place. But that would break the order of the official US international layout.

Ineserting a bracket can accidentally the 3g if up there.

Yes, that's true if you have an AltGr lock. However, there will most likely be a 3g light (hardware or software controlled).Hence you would notice quite easily. I would like to be able to use those top buttons as additional gaming buttons so I like having their special functions moved to AltGr combinations.

Why does your layout have 2 Alts, 2 Alt Grs, and a single key space and somehow still miss a Meta or Super key? Also, without an Fn key, how do you overload the [ key with four things? ([,{,Brightness Down, Bluetooth Toggle)

-God Ginrai

First, backwards compatibility with __wb__'s modifier layout which I took as a starting point.
Second, I think the shoulder buttons should only be modifiers as they are hard to reach when typing on tabletop.

For the same reason, the modifier keys are duplicated on the front (this is also like this on the Pandora).

The Fn key was discarded in favour of an AltGr, which is just a software controlled modifier instead of a driver controlled Fn button.

Michael didn't want to deal with the Fn button in the driver anymore, which was troublesome.

So, hence the following mapping is applied to the mentioned button:

[ = '['

shift+[ = '{'

AltGr + [ = Brightness down

AltGr + shift + [ = Bluetooth Toggle

They are chosen such that the buttons that are most annoying and to press accidentally and used least freqeuently (i.e. hardware toggles) have the hardest combo.

As mentioned, the AltGr+shift combination can be made with a single thumb (top buttons) or finger (shoulder buttons).

The single space adds flexibility for alternative layouts (such as e.g. Dvorak), however the button constraints we have do make these layouts harder.

As for Meta or Super key, the right and left versions of Alt/Ctrl/Shift all have different keycodes. It is possible to remap these to meta and hyper if needed.

 

[Caine]

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/ce33e71339841e3d490d1695217bb802

Alt+tab → and alt+tab ← instead of horizontal scroll. Don't need that with 1920 res.

Wondering if having a button for switching workspaces make sense, like virtual desktops.

I am missing the directional keys on that one. Maybe it is a modal thing (IOMode?) which I don't fully get. Nor do I understand what INT buttons and catarl are.If it is indeed modal, then I am not a big fan of such large changes. Modal switching between numeric keypad keys and their normal versions I am ok with as 9 times out of 10 that does not make a difference, but this feels counter intuitive.

Your buttons with four keys on them, especially your 8, 9 and 0 keys shadow common combinations if they are indeed shift/altGr combinations.

E.g. if F8 is input by pressing shift + AltGr + 8 then you lose the ability to press shift+F8 and so on.

 

[Saber]

Changed the layout. B)

 

[Askarus]

Sounds good if ED wants to move ä over to the right side with the other German alphabeticals. I don't think he'll go for it with the official product's layout though. I had wanted ESC to be right where you'd want it too by the way, but I tried to honor the mock keyboard layout shown at FOSDEM as much as I could to grant mine some private acceptance or influence or to be another choice for the real layout. I'd be alright with Compose becoming Shift + Enter again. What I desire to do too is move Insert down to Sym + Backspace and put a different input on (z) like say Left Mouse Click or Middle Mouse Click or something used more often than Insert. Maybe move TAB up over to (z) and place the shoulder Sym key to TAB's vacated spot so R2 could be freed up for / or another key. Guesses and rare suggestions like yours are all I can do at this point.

I'm a little late, I know .

I wouldn't worry about ED's layout too much.

It's not fixed yet and I don't think it's a good idea to aave äüöß not besides each other.

 

[DAP]

Cut the space bar in half, or put it to the left of the 'Z' key. A double wide key where it is now precludes the Dvorak keymap.

 

[Saber]

Sounds good if ED wants to move ä over to the right side with the other German alphabeticals. I don't think he'll go for it with the official product's layout though. I had wanted ESC to be right where you'd want it too by the way, but I tried to honor the mock keyboard layout shown at FOSDEM as much as I could to grant mine some private acceptance or influence or to be another choice for the real layout. I'd be alright with Compose becoming Shift + Enter again. What I desire to do too is move Insert down to Sym + Backspace and put a different input on (z) like say Left Mouse Click or Middle Mouse Click or something used more often than Insert. Maybe move TAB up over to (z) and place the shoulder Sym key to TAB's vacated spot so R2 could be freed up for / or another key. Guesses and rare suggestions like yours are all I can do at this point.

I'm a little late, I know .

I wouldn't worry about ED's layout too much.

It's not fixed yet and I don't think it's a good idea to aave äüöß not besides each other.

No worries. 

I'd be alright either way with where the umlauted vowels are put; they are easier to find where he has them without scrambling them up.

Cut the space bar in half, or put it to the left of the 'Z' key. A double wide key where it is now precludes the Dvorak keymap.

Hello Mr. Bot.

 

[God Ginrai]

Cut the space bar in half, or put it to the left of the 'Z' key. A double wide key where it is now precludes the Dvorak keymap.

Dvorak be damned, I want a wider space bar.

-God Ginrai

 

[Granitehead]

Cut the space bar in half, or put it to the left of the 'Z' key. A double wide key where it is now precludes the Dvorak keymap.

Dvorak be damned, I want a wider space bar.

Double wide space bar be damned, I want a fully customizable layout. ;-)

 

[WizardStan]

Cut the space bar in half, or put it to the left of the 'Z' key. A double wide key where it is now precludes the Dvorak keymap.

Dvorak be damned, I want a wider space bar.

Double wide space bar be damned, I want a fully customizable layout. ;-)

Fully customizable layout be damned, I want a cookie!

 

[comradekingu]

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/3b971382c90ab86b2aa83168386fa6b0

INTL rev 9

Us layout is universally known to be painful for those who are native to 105-key intl layout keyboards and make use of the INT buttons above.

Making assumptions as to what those varied mixes of layouts are, only makes it worse than whatever workaround each of them applied to the 104 US layout beforehand.

Luckily we have pretty advanced users, so they can get over the fact that its a latin layout and their extra chars might not be marked. No extra keys or worse, extra keys mapped nonstandard, doesnt work for anyone.

 

[_wb_]

I'm sorry for Dvorak fans, but a wide space bar is quite important I think. A normal space bar is 5 or 6 keys wide and there's a reason why it is bigger than normal keys.

However, if it is possible to provide two contacts on the PCB that could potentially map to different keys, so that if you somehow manage to have a modified keymat, it can be made to work, that would be nice.

 

[comradekingu]

That reason being you hit it with the base of your thumb as you move both palms across the keyboard. Modern keyboards have reduced spacebar, just like most layouts doesnt have longshift or may not have extended return-key.

(My spacebar only has marks of use where i hit it, for each of my thumbs, dont think anywhere else on it gets any use.)

Its no exact science, and the last time it made any sense was at the age of typewriters. Applying normal paradgims on something you thumb type on only goes so far. My suggestion above is more effective for thumb type, but doesnt work on 10 finger.

Does anyone 10-finger type on the pandora?

 

[God Ginrai]

That reason being you hit it with the base of your thumb as you move both palms across the keyboard. Modern keyboards have reduced spacebar, just like most layouts doesnt have longshift or may not have extended return-key.

I screw up all the time on keyboards where they reduce the shift key's width.

-God Ginrai

 

[_wb_]

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/863c0f526d79e1eac6eb786a44aaf7bf

 

[Natsu]

Well, they placement look alright that way. Anyway, why two altgr's? Maybe space should be one of the shoulder buttons?

Compose?

 

[God Ginrai]

Well, they placement look alright that way. Anyway, why two altgr's? Maybe space should be one of the shoulder buttons?

Compose?

Nah, space was a good menu button for emulators specifically because it wasn't one of the face buttons or shoulder buttons.

-God Ginrai

 

[_wb_]

Well, they placement look alright that way. Anyway, why two altgr's? Maybe space should be one of the shoulder buttons?

Compose?

Shoulder buttons are a perfect match for modifier keys (shift,ctrl,alt,altgr) since those are keys you have to hold down while pressing other keys. Holding one key while pressing another is tricky when thumb typing, so it helps a lot if you can use the shoulder buttons for that instead.

In particular, since I also use Shift+AltGr combinations (e.g. \ is AltGr+N, | is Shift+AltGr+N), it is nice that you can do those simply by holding down L1 and L2 (something that is supposedly not harder than holding down L1 or L2 separately).

Space on a shoulder button would not be useless, but it would be way more useful to have all 4 modifier keys on the shoulder buttons.

Compose is the key you use to make compose combinations, e.g. compose Y = results in ¥, compose + - results in ±, compose o x results in ¤, compose 1 4 results in ¼, compose " a results in ä, and so on. It's a sticky (dead) key, so you can release it before you press the compose combination. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key

For those who don't need the compose key, it could be mapped to another shift key. I personally don't use the shift key on the Pandora (I only use the shoulder button shift), but according to ED there are many people who want two shift keys on the keyboard itself.

So in my layout, there are three ways to write ü, ä and ö: by using the direct keys (L2+u/a/o), by using the dead key diacritics on the ASDF row (L12+s u/a/o), or by using the compose key (Compose L2+s u/a/o). The direct keys are the most convenient option, but of course we have no room for all possible accented letters so we only have the ones used in German (since the device is built in Germany and presumably the largest non-English language that needs support is German). For other languages, the dead key diacritics are relatively efficient since they allow you to input any accented letter using just two thumb presses (I'm not counting shoulder buttons since those don't really slow you down once you're used to them). With the compose key you can input any accented letter as well as a bunch of other symbols using three thumb presses.

This would be much better than the current situation on the Pandora: the Pandora does not have a dedicated compose key (it is shift-enter) and it does not have Fn/AltGr on a shoulder button. So to write e.g. ü on the Pandora, you need at least four thumb presses: L1+Enter, Fn, S, U. To write ± on the Pandora, you need five thumb presses: L1+Enter, Fn, F, Fn, D. In my Pyra proposal, it would be just three thumb presses: Compose, L2+(F, D). Or Compose, L2+(Ins, Del).