Unofficial Keyboard Layouts

[Saber]

I'd propose the if a modifier is primarily accessible as a shoulder button it doesn't need to be sticky. Problem solved.

I was thinking the same. If L2 Sym(Hyper_L) is non-sticky and Keypad Sym(Hyper_R) is sticky, this could solve the issue with input game mapping, at least for the shoulder button.

 

[Saber]

Alt-gr with space for user symbols is an unnegociable must. Preferably with alt-gr on a shoulder button. Preferably, all game buttons will also be mirrored as a joystick interface, so if a game needs to use the symbol button, it can do so.

Can I ask why you need an AltGr button? What diacritical letters and glyphs are a must for you to have slaeshjag?

 

[alanjf]

Ideally, I would have the shoulder button modifier keys non-sticky and the keyboard modifier keys (also shift/ctrl/alt!) sticky.

I'm sorry, but what exactly is meant by "sticky" ? Does it stay on until pressed again and vice versa (like a toggle button) ? Or does it mean something else? Thanks.

 

[_wb_]

Ideally, I would have the shoulder button modifier keys non-sticky and the keyboard modifier keys (also shift/ctrl/alt!) sticky.

I'm sorry, but what exactly is meant by "sticky" ? Does it stay on until pressed again and vice versa (like a toggle button) ? Or does it mean something else? Thanks.

It means that if you want to type, e.g. Shift+A, you don't have to hold Shift, press A, release Shift (although that also works), but you can press Shift, release it, and then press A. It does not stay on though -- only the next keypress is affected. So it's not like Caps Lock. Just like the Fn key on the Pandora.

A fun thing about sticky keys is that you can make them be combos with themselves (you would do that by pressing it twice in a row) -- so we could have Shift+Shift = Shift Lock, Fn + Fn = Fn Lock, etc.

 

[alanjf]

Ideally, I would have the shoulder button modifier keys non-sticky and the keyboard modifier keys (also shift/ctrl/alt!) sticky.

I'm sorry, but what exactly is meant by "sticky" ? Does it stay on until pressed again and vice versa (like a toggle button) ? Or does it mean something else? Thanks.

It means that if you want to type, e.g. Shift+A, you don't have to hold Shift, press A, release Shift (although that also works), but you can press Shift, release it, and then press A. It does not stay on though -- only the next keypress is affected. So it's not like Caps Lock. Just like the Fn key on the Pandora.

A fun thing about sticky keys is that you can make them be combos with themselves (you would do that by pressing it twice in a row) -- so we could have Shift+Shift = Shift Lock, Fn + Fn = Fn Lock, etc.

Thank you for that. Yes I see how that can be useful. It's very much like how the shit key works on on-screen keyboards on many smartphones and tablets (touch screen devices.)

 

[Saber]

Ideally, I would have the shoulder button modifier keys non-sticky and the keyboard modifier keys (also shift/ctrl/alt!) sticky.

I'm sorry, but what exactly is meant by "sticky" ? Does it stay on until pressed again and vice versa (like a toggle button) ? Or does it mean something else? Thanks.

It means that if you want to type, e.g. Shift+A, you don't have to hold Shift, press A, release Shift (although that also works), but you can press Shift, release it, and then press A. It does not stay on though -- only the next keypress is affected. So it's not like Caps Lock. Just like the Fn key on the Pandora.

A fun thing about sticky keys is that you can make them be combos with themselves (you would do that by pressing it twice in a row) -- so we could have Shift+Shift = Shift Lock, Fn + Fn = Fn Lock, etc.

Thank you for that. Yes I see how that can be useful. It's very much like how the shit key works on on-screen keyboards on many smartphones and tablets (touch screen devices.)

I have a noob question though if anyone can answer it who owns a Pandora. What if I erroneously pressed the sticky Fn key and would like to cancel it? How would I do this without pressing this same sticky key multiple times to get out of Fn Lock?

 

[Grench]

Ideally, I would have the shoulder button modifier keys non-sticky and the keyboard modifier keys (also shift/ctrl/alt!) sticky.

I'm sorry, but what exactly is meant by "sticky" ? Does it stay on until pressed again and vice versa (like a toggle button) ? Or does it mean something else? Thanks.

It means that if you want to type, e.g. Shift+A, you don't have to hold Shift, press A, release Shift (although that also works), but you can press Shift, release it, and then press A. It does not stay on though -- only the next keypress is affected. So it's not like Caps Lock. Just like the Fn key on the Pandora.
A fun thing about sticky keys is that you can make them be combos with themselves (you would do that by pressing it twice in a row) -- so we could have Shift+Shift = Shift Lock, Fn + Fn = Fn Lock, etc.

Thank you for that. Yes I see how that can be useful. It's very much like how the shit key works on on-screen keyboards on many smartphones and tablets (touch screen devices.)

I have a noob question though if anyone can answer it who owns a Pandora. What if I erroneously pressed the sticky Fn key and would like to cancel it? How would I do this without pressing this same sticky key multiple times to get out of Fn Lock?

Push the sticky key a 3rd time to 'cancel'.Fn held = Fn

FnFn = Fnlock

FnFnFn = (standard state)

 

[Saber]

I have a noob question though if anyone can answer it who owns a Pandora. What if I erroneously pressed the sticky Fn key and would like to cancel it? How would I do this without pressing this same sticky key multiple times to get out of Fn Lock?

Push the sticky key a 3rd time to 'cancel'.
Fn held = Fn


FnFn = Fnlock


FnFnFn = (standard state)

Thanks.

I figured that's the only way out.

 

[slaeshjag]

Alt-gr with space for user symbols is an unnegociable must. Preferably with alt-gr on a shoulder button. Preferably, all game buttons will also be mirrored as a joystick interface, so if a game needs to use the symbol button, it can do so.

Can I ask why you need an AltGr button? What diacritical letters and glyphs are a must for you to have slaeshjag?

AltGr what will be used instead of fn.

Space for user-mappable symbols? Well, on the pandora, every user instead has to replace existing mappings. Which means user-mapped symbols get scattered all over the keyboard as symbols less important to the user is mapped away.

Don't ask me what symbols I need. Solving the problem by adding the symbols I need won't solve it for everybody else.

 

[Saber]

Alt-gr with space for user symbols is an unnegociable must. Preferably with alt-gr on a shoulder button. Preferably, all game buttons will also be mirrored as a joystick interface, so if a game needs to use the symbol button, it can do so.

Can I ask why you need an AltGr button? What diacritical letters and glyphs are a must for you to have slaeshjag?

AltGr what will be used instead of fn.

Space for user-mappable symbols? Well, on the pandora, every user instead has to replace existing mappings. Which means user-mapped symbols get scattered all over the keyboard as symbols less important to the user is mapped away.

Don't ask me what symbols I need. Solving the problem by adding the symbols I need won't solve it for everybody else.

Not interested in adding more symbols for you. Only curious in what they are and how many, and maybe why Compose mode won't work for you. I already outlined why the Pyra likely won't have an AltGr key above though so I suppose it doesn't matter anymore, but I don't give up so easily. ^_^

When I look over AltGr for the Swedish Keyboard Layout, only a handful of native keys pop out that aren't on the keymat normally. I remember you said a while back, the Yen, F11, and F12 and a few others I believe were reassigned to your needs on the Pandora. Eth, Dyet, Eng, and a couple more seem to be the what to my which question I asked previously. By true assumption, you could remap the German keys and the two currency symbols on the layout I did toward your liking and that would solve your problem in this case. -_-

 

[slaeshjag]

The german keys would be prime targets for user remapping.

EDIT: Just so you know: Hyper IS NOT a character modifier. And making it act like one would require the same specialized code like an fn key would.

 

[Saber]

The german keys would be prime targets for user remapping.

EDIT: Just so you know: Hyper IS NOT a character modifier. And making it act like one would require the same specialized code like an fn key would.

Yes to the first and obviously for the second(in software it's called Mode_Switch which is normally reserved for... AltGr).

 

[Askarus]

If I'm understanding here, you want to move F11 and F12 to (Z) and (Y)? I remember you said you use the plus and minus keys often for ebook scaling as well as F11 for other work. I don't see why you can't if that's your preference. Not sure what you meant about brightness my friend?

It's not that complicated.

I still have plans to take my keymat and cut and swap the Y and Z button as I want a German layout.

(Same as I did for Pandora).

As the Sym Keys are on the same button as the Y and Z keys I would also swap those.

With your layout I would swap the Br+ and / key.

That makes Br+ not besides Br- any more.

As those two belong together I'd like to see some Sym button in the Y and Z that don't appear as a pair (Br+ and Br- do).

To be close to the Pandora layout I would prefer to move ' " - + one to the left.

Then swap:

Your layout letter -> My suggestion

ü -> ä

ß -> ü

₤ -> ß

Br+ -> €

Br- -> ₤

+ -> _

_ -> Br-

€ -> Br+

So we gain 3 thinks:

1: äöüß are together

2: ' " - + are on PandoraPosition

3: I can easily swap Z and Y for my layout

BTW:

I couldn't find an ESC key.

Is it possible to make Tab + Sym as ESC?

 

[Saber]

If I'm understanding here, you want to move F11 and F12 to (Z) and (Y)? I remember you said you use the plus and minus keys often for ebook scaling as well as F11 for other work. I don't see why you can't if that's your preference. Not sure what you meant about brightness my friend?

It's not that complicated.

I still have plans to take my keymat and cut and swap the Y and Z button as I want a German layout.

(Same as I did for Pandora).

As the Sym Keys are on the same button as the Y and Z keys I would also swap those.

With your layout I would swap the Br+ and / key.

That makes Br+ not besides Br- any more.

As those two belong together I'd like to see some Sym button in the Y and Z that don't appear as a pair (Br+ and Br- do).

To be close to the Pandora layout I would prefer to move ' " - + one to the left.

Then swap:

Your layout letter -> My suggestion

ü -> ä

ß -> ü

₤ -> ß

Br+ -> €

Br- -> ₤

+ -> _

_ -> Br-

€ -> Br+

So we gain 3 thinks:

1: äöüß are together

2: ' " - + are on PandoraPosition

3: I can easily swap Z and Y for my layout

BTW:

I couldn't find an ESC key.

Is it possible to make Tab + Sym as ESC?

Sounds good if ED wants to move ä over to the right side with the other German alphabeticals. I don't think he'll go for it with the official product's layout though. 

I had wanted ESC to be right where you'd want it too by the way, but I tried to honor the mock keyboard layout shown at FOSDEM as much as I could to grant mine some private acceptance or influence or to be another choice for the real layout. I'd be alright with Compose becoming Shift + Enter again. What I desire to do too is move Insert down to Sym + Backspace and put a different input on (z) like say Left Mouse Click or Middle Mouse Click or something used more often than Insert. Maybe move TAB up over to (z) and place the shoulder Sym key to TAB's vacated spot so R2 could be freed up for / or another key. Guesses and rare suggestions like yours are all I can do at this point.   

   

 

 

[_wb_]

Updated proposal:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/217ea4adc7955b85096ceedb1f45768f

The two extra action buttons are Insert and Delete, while AltGr+Insert results in keypad plus and AltGr+Del results in keypad minus.

(also maybe we should label AltGr as something different, I like something shorter like Fn, even if it is actually an AltGr button).

 

[comradekingu]

In an unified way of thinking, along with http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/15736-action-button-labels/page-40#entry325346

Here is my take on it, not quite done, but it has an INP mode button for changing between  regular type layout, and game-mode (the gamepad buttons change)

I concur on page up and page down on the gamepad up and down buttons

The INT keys are where Ü Ö Ä is on a german keyboard, similar for finns, norwegians, danes etc etc.  Those three keys are there on 105 key layouts and they are _cruzial_ to everyday typing.

mode-keying something that comes up every sentence gets old fast. Its more central than return/enter.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/82c9a74f82a35afc7cf58b3aafc4b239

INTL layout rev 1

The cluster of buttons on the left are the ones ive changed.

 

[comradekingu]

Moved the at key, position isnt standard on keyboard layours, a button makes sense.
         Cleaned keys, moved symbols to where they all are, no duplication, removed useless symbols.
         no US layout 678
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/e65d65b83ab443a00be8a453d0693b35
 INTL rev 2
 
edit: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/69968341e585b0625ebf401f4a87457e

rev 3

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/83db28358d3a8f19df618fe9dfcf35ee

rev4

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/56dee5e7531445cec87ee25eaad47a77

rev5

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/d3f0ef0ef3d0e189f46a03364932c5c3

rev6

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/08f6b5dc3fc2da489f45717fe5b027da

rev7

 

[Caine]

US International revisited.

(source: Wikipedia AltGr)

Home/End/Del/PgDn/PgUp/Ins are the regular keybindings for the gaming controls ABWXYZ.

The numbers 1, 2, 3, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 are their Alt Graph values. Not entirely sure if these should be printed at all.

Also note that due to positioning of AltGr and Shift both on the front-side as on the shoulder buttons, the combinations are fairly easy to hit.

Source:

Spoiler

{backcolor:"#444444"},

[{c:"#333333",t:"#ffffff",w:2,h:0.5,w2:1,h2:1},"L1\n\nRShift",{x:8.5,w:2,h:0.5},"RCtrl\n\nR1"],

[{y:-0.5,w:2,h:0.5},"L2\n\nAltGr",{x:8.5,w:2,h:0.5},"RAlt\n\nR2"],

[{y:-0.5,x:2,c:"#111111"},"\n\n\nWifi\n\n\nEsc",{f:2},"~\n`\n\nHDMI",{x:1,a:7,f:3,w:2},"POWER",{x:1,a:4,f:2},"{\n[\nBT\nBr-","}\n]\n3G\nBr+"],

[{y:0.20000000000000018,x:9.5,a:7,f:9,w:0.8,h:0.8},"z\n\n\n\nIns¾"],

[{y:-0.7000000000000002,x:5.25,a:5,f:5,w:1.5,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\nAlt\n\nSTART",{x:3.75,a:7,f:9},"Y\n\n\n\nPgUp¼"],

[{y:-0.5,x:7,f:3,w:2,h:2},"(Right nub)"],

[{y:-0.5,x:5.25,a:5,f:5,w:1.5,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\nCtrl\n\nSELECT",{x:2.75,a:3,f:9},"A\n\n\n\nHome¹",{x:1,a:7},"B\n\n\n\nEnd²"],

[{x:5.25,a:5,f:5,w:1.5,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\nMenu\n\nPYRA",{x:3.75,a:7,f:9},"X\n\n\n\nPgDn³"],

[{y:-0.5,x:9.5,a:3,w:0.8,h:0.8},"w\n\n\n\nDel½"],

[{x:0.5,a:4,f:3},"!\n1\n\nF1","@\n2\n\nF2","#\n3\n\nF3","$\n4\n\nF4","%\n5\n\nF5","^\n6\n\nF6","&\n7\n\nF7","*\n8\n\nF8","(\n9\n\nF9",")\n0\n\nF10","\n\n\nF11\n\n\n<--"],

["\n\n«\n»\n\n\nTab","\n\nÄ\n\n\n\nQ","\n\nÅ\n\n\n\nW","\n\nÉ\n\n\n\nE","\n\n€\n®\n\n\nR","\n\nÞ\n\n\n\nT","\n\nÜ\n\n\n\nY","\n\nÚ\n\n\n\nU","\n\nÍ\n\n\n\nI","\n\nÓ\n\n\n\nO","\n\nÖ\n\n\n\nP","\n\n\nF12\n\n\nEnter"],

[{x:0.5},"\n\n\nCapsL\n\n\nShift","\n\nÁ\n\n\n\nA","\n\n§\nß\n\n\nS","\n\nÐ\n\n\n\nD","\n\n£\n¤\n\n\nF","\n\n¦\n¬\n\n\nG","\n\nØ\n\n\n\nH","\n\n:\n;\n\n\nJ","\n\n°\n¶\n\n\nK","\n\n\"\n'\n\n\nL","Comp\nShift\n\n\n\n\nor"],

["<\n,\nÇ",">\n.\n|\n\\","\n\nÆ\n\n\n\nZ","\n\n÷\n×\n\n\nX","\n\n¢\n©\n\n\nC","\n\n_\n-\n\n\nV","\n\n+\n=\n\n\nB","\n\nÑ\n\n\n\nN","\n\n¥\nµ\n\n\nM","?\n/\n¡\n¿","\n\n’\n‘\n\n\nSPC","\n\n\n\n\n\nAltGr"]

 

[slaeshjag]

I can't find []{} on your proposed layout?

EDIT: Nervermind, I just saw them up there.

 

[comradekingu]

Ineserting a bracket can accidentally the 3g if up there.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/ce33e71339841e3d490d1695217bb802

INTL rev 8

Alt+tab → and alt+tab ← instead of horizontal scroll. Don't need that with 1920 res.

Wondering if having a button for switching workspaces make sense, like virtual desktops.