Twitterix: New Vid In The Works

[God Ginrai]

So it is an Arch install. I saw that there seem to be a lot of bug reports for it. Have you ever had any problems with it? (Also, do you think it would be a good idea if I'm installing Arch on a laptop?) I'm basically about to update my Windows Vista partition to 7 without formatting, and installing Arch by formatting my Fedora partition, so I'm trying to figure out the best way to go about this.

The installer can be buggy, and doesn't support LVM automatically, which might be necessary to migrate your Fedora partitions (that probably are on LVM).
The rest is just normal Arch packages, though, so you should be fine.

If you don't want to take any risks, just go the normal Arch installation route and follow this guide to get kdemod packages afterwards. If you want to configure every aspect of your OS as is the Arch way, this probably is the way to go anyways.
BTW, note that Arch does very little automatically (almost nothing actually), so you'll probably have to edit your "grub/menu.lst" manually to get access to your Windows partition after the Arch installation (but I bet that you expected that already).

Also note that if you want to upgrade to Windows 7, please do so before you install Arch, because Windows installers are known for wiping MBRs and messing up partition tables and causing errors that only can be fixed by installing boot loaders such as GRUB.
Also, if you happen to have Windows on a partition other than the very first on your hard disk (aka /dev/sda1 or /dev/sdb1 etc in Linux lingo) you are probably screwed, since Windows installers always assume that the Windows installation is located on the first partition for some reason, so if you upgrade to Win7 and then reboot your computer without having some kind of Live CD, you probably won't be able to get beyond the Windows boot loader any time soon, since it only looks for Windows on /dev/sda1 or fails otherwise.

I was talking about formatting my Fedora partition (Each partition is a seperate hard drive in my laptop) So would I really need something for migrating my partition?

-God Ginrai

 

[dflemstr]

I was talking about formatting my Fedora partition (Each partition is a seperate hard drive in my laptop) So would I really need something for migrating my partition?

In that case, no.

But you'll have to create a new LVM setup if you want one (if you haven't used it till now, you probably don't); you can just use normal partitions otherwise.

 

[God Ginrai]

I was talking about formatting my Fedora partition (Each partition is a seperate hard drive in my laptop) So would I really need something for migrating my partition?

In that case, no.

But you'll have to create a new LVM setup if you want one (if you haven't used it till now, you probably don't); you can just use normal partitions otherwise.

What's the benefit of LVM?

-God Ginrai

 

[dflemstr]

What's the benefit of LVM?

Well, LVM basically lets you manage data storage without forcing you to think about *where* your data is stored, but more about *how* your data is stored.

You can:

• Add and remove partitions without having to think about where they are placed on the disk. Just say "give me a 30 GB partition" and LVM will move things around and arrange for your partition to be created. Oh, and partition allocation happens within seconds; no 30 second waits for allocation or multiple hours of resizing other partitions just because your partition "doesn't fit".
• Have partitions that stretch across multiple disks (an effect of the above).
• Instantly clone any partition, create setups similar to RAID-1, make snapshot backups of a whole partition within seconds and do other exciting stuff like that. Great for backup.
• Resize partitions while they are still mounted and stuff like that.
• Optimize your partitions placement to get extra speed. Let's say for example that you create a LVM-based setup across two disks; one disk is slower than the other. You can configure LVM to automatically move fragments of less-used parts of a partition to the slower disk.

LVM is only interesting if you care about disk performance really. I have a total of 2.5 TiB disk space on the machine I'm at at the moment, so for me, LVM really matters.
Example of a typical LVM setup ("master" is my current machine, "main" is on a backup unit):

$ sudo lvscan #Lists all currently loaded LVM partitions
  ACTIVE            '/dev/main/home' [295.31 GB] inherit
  ACTIVE            '/dev/master/root' [10.00 GB] inherit
  ACTIVE            '/dev/master/usr' [40.00 GB] inherit
  ACTIVE            '/dev/master/tmp' [10.00 GB] inherit
  ACTIVE            '/dev/master/home' [600.00 GB] inherit

For the normal user LVM can be overkill, but if you start using it and put some effort into creating a good setup when you first install an OS, it'll pay of later when you need more space for your personal files or whatnot.

Fedora uses LVM by default and the user doesn't have to care about it; it "just works". Can't say the same about Arch though; in Arch, you have to do everything yourself.

 

[Game_over]

How is he "desperately trying to be an artist"? He hasn't put anything artsy in his videos, he's just trying to make the videos more entertaining and funny, and I think they are.

Pandora's on the roof? Wiz's falling onto heads and knocking people out? That certainly doesn't seem like a technical demonstration to me.

Craig doesn't even need to make the videos in the first place

Sure he does. He needs to prevent the people who have paid for a pre-order from canceling. Videos are a good way of doing that. Videos, that is, of the Pandora actually doing things. Not videos of Craig running around places with a Pandora in his hand.

You would have a point if there wasn't any videos doing exactly that, unfortunately(fortunately) there are a crap-load. So give him credit for acknowledging that by being entertaining. And don't mention software that is not even done yet-it's not done yet.

 

[gruso]

For anyone who hasn't been following the tweets...

http://openpandora.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/dare-we-go-there-again-another-video-on-the-way-tm/

 

[Pleng]

You would have a point if there wasn't any videos doing exactly that,

BS

There are plenty of 'are you getting tired/giving up threads'. And outside of these forums I'm sure there's a steady trickle of people canceling their preorders.

New videos appease people like this.

unfortunately(fortunately) there are a crap-load. So give him credit for acknowledging that by being entertaining.

How can I give him credit for being entertaining? He's not.

And don't mention software that is not even done yet-it's not done yet.

Please point me to where I mentioned software that's not even done yet.
Thanks.

 

[fiori_musicali]

Craig has many videos of Pandora on his YouTube channel. You may also want to check MWeston's channel.

Frankly, the public's obsession with new videos seems juvenile. I'm pretty sure the most noisy bunch who have taken waiting for Pandora as their main hobby ARE just that.

The adults who pre-ordered either cancelled their order and moved on, or are patiently waiting fully aware of the risks and better understanding the nature of the project.

Kids make a racket. Don't encourage them.

 

[atomicthumbs]

Yea. Less Craig arsing around, desperately trying to be an artist, and more actual Pandora footage.

Yes, Craig, it would be very much appreciated if this video could actually see the light of day.....unlike previously announced videos......

If this is sarcasm, my detector is broken. This doesn't come off as being very nice.

 

[raff]

+1

 

[Lylep]

You would have a point if there wasn't any videos doing exactly that,

BS

There are plenty of 'are you getting tired/giving up threads'. And outside of these forums I'm sure there's a steady trickle of people canceling their preorders.

New videos appease people like this.

unfortunately(fortunately) there are a crap-load. So give him credit for acknowledging that by being entertaining.

How can I give him credit for being entertaining? He's not.

And don't mention software that is not even done yet-it's not done yet.

Please point me to where I mentioned software that's not even done yet.
Thanks.

You've made your point lad, you're not happy with the videos. Now please will you stop whining about it?
If you're that unhappy then cancel your pre-order, as you keep telling us people do on the basis of the content of a YouTube video, if you're not willing to do that then please stop moaning so much. Please just grow up a bit lad.

Craig puts a lot of effort into his videos and even if you don't like them you should at least be grateful he goes to the effort. If I was Craig I don't think I'd bother uploading after a crowd of whiny teenagers started insulting me and saying such stupid things.

I can appreciate you're getting impatient for the Pandora, after so long we all are, but taking it out on the person working hardest to bring it to you is not a good way of venting it.

 

[Mark1970]

Even though it hurts me to type it...

WILL IT BLEND?

 

[michaeljustman]

Even though it hurts me to type it...

WILL IT BLEND?

I thought Craig already posted that one... at the beginning of april.

 

[Pleng]

You've made your point lad, you're not happy with the videos. Now please will you stop whining about it?

I'm not whining about it. I'm simply responding to other people's ridiculous comments that I should be grateful that Craig is going to the effort of making them just out of the goodness of his heart, and not due to some kind of business need to do so.

If you're that unhappy then cancel your pre-order, as you keep telling us people do on the basis of the content of a YouTube video, if you're not willing to do that then please stop moaning so much. Please just grow up a bit lad.

I've never said that *I* am one of the people who is going to cancel my pre-order. I have no such intention.

Craig puts a lot of effort into his videos and even if you don't like them you should at least be grateful he goes to the effort. If I was Craig I don't think I'd bother uploading after a crowd of whiny teenagers started insulting me and saying such stupid things.

There you go again. I have no intention of being grateful for a video which features 10 minutes of Craig playing on the roof and pretending to fall off just to see 30 seconds of Pandora at the end. I have yet to see a crowd of whiny teenagers insulting Craig. However if they did, and they were his target audience for the devices he is marketing, I'd take note and listen. It's called business.

I can appreciate you're getting impatient for the Pandora, after so long we all are, but taking it out on the person working hardest to bring it to you is not a good way of venting it.

I'm actually not that impatient. Yes I'd like it before my next series of long-haul flights. But I'm well aware of the fact that it probably isn't going to happen. I'll just have to lump that and hope I can enjoy using it on the following round of flights.

I've also said before that I personally don't particularly care if any other videos are made. Unfortunately when one is made I can't prevent natural curiosity and I have to watch it. I then don't appreciate having to wade through several minutes of (bad) acting just to see what is being demonstrated. It's like having to watch all the adverts because you don't know when the actual show is going to restart... kind of.

 

[God Ginrai]

What's the benefit of LVM?

Well, LVM basically lets you manage data storage without forcing you to think about *where* your data is stored, but more about *how* your data is stored.

You can:

• Add and remove partitions without having to think about where they are placed on the disk. Just say "give me a 30 GB partition" and LVM will move things around and arrange for your partition to be created. Oh, and partition allocation happens within seconds; no 30 second waits for allocation or multiple hours of resizing other partitions just because your partition "doesn't fit".
• Have partitions that stretch across multiple disks (an effect of the above).
• Instantly clone any partition, create setups similar to RAID-1, make snapshot backups of a whole partition within seconds and do other exciting stuff like that. Great for backup.
• Resize partitions while they are still mounted and stuff like that.
• Optimize your partitions placement to get extra speed. Let's say for example that you create a LVM-based setup across two disks; one disk is slower than the other. You can configure LVM to automatically move fragments of less-used parts of a partition to the slower disk.

So basically, this would be good if I decided that I needed either more space on my Windows or Linux partition, so I could resize the other to get space for it.

-God Ginrai
LVM is only interesting if you care about disk performance really. I have a total of 2.5 TiB disk space on the machine I'm at at the moment, so for me, LVM really matters.
Example of a typical LVM setup ("master" is my current machine, "main" is on a backup unit):

$ sudo lvscan #Lists all currently loaded LVM partitions
  ACTIVE            '/dev/main/home' [295.31 GB] inherit
  ACTIVE            '/dev/master/root' [10.00 GB] inherit
  ACTIVE            '/dev/master/usr' [40.00 GB] inherit
  ACTIVE            '/dev/master/tmp' [10.00 GB] inherit
  ACTIVE            '/dev/master/home' [600.00 GB] inherit

For the normal user LVM can be overkill, but if you start using it and put some effort into creating a good setup when you first install an OS, it'll pay of later when you need more space for your personal files or whatnot.

Fedora uses LVM by default and the user doesn't have to care about it; it "just works". Can't say the same about Arch though; in Arch, you have to do everything yourself.

 

[dflemstr]

So basically, this would be good if I decided that I needed either more space on my Windows or Linux partition, so I could resize the other to get space for it.

-God Ginrai

NTFS needs to be resized offline since it

1. suffers from fragmentation and thus would take too long to resize online (you need to defragment + move files around simultaneously, so yeah)
2. uses various file locks (You know the message: "This file cannot be deleted because it is being used by suchandsuch") that make resizing impossible
3. is kinda proprietary, so the only tool that actually is guaranteed to resize your partition without errors is the Vista tool for that purpose (However, sometimes it'll fail because it isn't capable of defragmenting and resizing a partition simultaneously, so gparted would be a good alternative tool to resize a partition in that case; gparted CAN resize NTFS without errors but will leave the partition in a broken state if you shut down the computer while its working, something the Vista tool most of the time will not).

Also, I don't think that Windows has a LVM driver, so if you put your Windows-partition on LVM, you won't be able to boot from it without a modified Windows kernel (and good luck finding one).
However, LVM is very useful for Linux setups when you want to use multi partition setups (you saw mine; I use a separate home partition to be able to preserve my documents between installs, and use separate "/usr", "/" etc partitions for the extra security and speed).

Anyways, you'll be the one who decides in the end. If you think it's worth it to use LVM, then just use it (it's not more difficult to set up than using fdisk on Linux, something you'll have to do when installing Arch anyways).

 

[God Ginrai]

So basically, this would be good if I decided that I needed either more space on my Windows or Linux partition, so I could resize the other to get space for it.

-God Ginrai

NTFS needs to be resized offline since it

1. suffers from fragmentation and thus would take too long to resize online (you need to defragment + move files around simultaneously, so yeah)
2. uses various file locks (You know the message: "This file cannot be deleted because it is being used by suchandsuch") that make resizing impossible
3. is kinda proprietary, so the only tool that actually is guaranteed to resize your partition without errors is the Vista tool for that purpose (However, sometimes it'll fail because it isn't capable of defragmenting and resizing a partition simultaneously, so gparted would be a good alternative tool to resize a partition in that case; gparted CAN resize NTFS without errors but will leave the partition in a broken state if you shut down the computer while its working, something the Vista tool most of the time will not).

Also, I don't think that Windows has a LVM driver, so if you put your Windows-partition on LVM, you won't be able to boot from it without a modified Windows kernel (and good luck finding one).
However, LVM is very useful for Linux setups when you want to use multi partition setups (you saw mine; I use a separate home partition to be able to preserve my documents between installs, and use separate "/usr", "/" etc partitions for the extra security and speed).

Anyways, you'll be the one who decides in the end. If you think it's worth it to use LVM, then just use it (it's not more difficult to set up than using fdisk on Linux, something you'll have to do when installing Arch anyways).

So if I don't use LVM, then I can install using Chakra, but if I want LVM I should probably use a normal Arch install? Also, how often would I need to reinstall Arch? (what would be the benefits of reinstalling a rolling release distro?)

-God Ginrai

 

[Enverex]

You shouldn't ever need to reinstall, it's one of the primary benefits of a rolling release distro (and why those are always what I personally have stuck to).

 

[God Ginrai]

You shouldn't ever need to reinstall, it's one of the primary benefits of a rolling release distro (and why those are always what I personally have stuck to).

That's what I thought. That's why I was asking that question, because dflemster said that he kept a seperate partition for his home directory to preserve his documents between installs, which I wasn't understanding why he was reinstalling Arch.

-God Ginrai

 

[Enverex]

You shouldn't ever need to reinstall, it's one of the primary benefits of a rolling release distro (and why those are always what I personally have stuck to).

That's what I thought. That's why I was asking that question, because dflemster said that he kept a seperate partition for his home directory to preserve his documents between installs, which I wasn't understanding why he was reinstalling Arch.

-God Ginrai

That's mainly in case someone gets bored and changes distros, or if they somehow catastrophically destroy their entire system and need to reinstall. No other real reason that I can see.