So, what's the current status of everything?

fusion_power

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Thanks for the status update. All in all it sounds we are getting finaly there...eventualy. ^^

As often said: If you have millions of USD lying around, things are a lot easier as you can simply do stuff when you want, without planning more careful.
OR you are one of these many chinese startups that can throw out such devices like crazy. I doubt they all are multi billion dollar companies. But they often sit right at the source of all needed parts.
Its really annoying to see how hard it is to achive the same in Europe, Pyra development shows that there are still alot of things that need to improve to compete with China, when it comes to help for startups and building electronic devices. (I'm pretty sure it's also much harder to do this in the USA, not only in Erope).
It only can get better from here, at least I hope so.
 

Phlyra

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Thanks for the status update. All in all it sounds we are getting finaly there...eventualy. ^^


OR you are one of these many chinese startups that can throw out such devices like crazy. I doubt they all are multi billion dollar companies. But they often sit right at the source of all needed parts.
Its really annoying to see how hard it is to achive the same in Europe, Pyra development shows that there are still alot of things that need to improve to compete with China, when it comes to help for startups and building electronic devices. (I'm pretty sure it's also much harder to do this in the USA, not only in Erope).
It only can get better from here, at least I hope so.
Clearly being right at the source of where all the parts are produced will help improve TTM but don’t forget the crowd-sourced nature of the Pandora/Pyra projects, which has obviously extended TTM... Or the consumer-protecting regulations, which are generally stronger in the EU than in China.
 

EvilDragon

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OR you are one of these many chinese startups that can throw out such devices like crazy. I doubt they all are multi billion dollar companies. But they often sit right at the source of all needed parts.
Oh, well, they're not often producing anything but just reselling stuff they find there.

Want an example?
Take the PeakAGo, for example:

That one is available on Alibaba from a Shenzen company for 118 USD.

They sell it on Indiegogo for 269 USD...

I won't post a link here, as I don't want to hurt their Indiegogo, but if someone is interested, send me a PM and I'll send it.
 
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fusion_power

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Oh, well, they're not often producing anything but just reselling stuff they find there.

Want an example?
Take the PeakAGo, for example:
Yupp, that's also a well known tactic. ^^ Many western companies do this since ages too. I guess our german "Pearl" shop would not even exist if they didn't buy cheap chinese products and resell it as super fancy gimmicks in germany. :D
Well, in the recent years there were some good handheld devices that came out of (not only) asia. Besides GPD there are many other of these various retro-handhelds. "Pocket Go", "GKD350H", various Rhaspberry Pi Kits and so on. Nice to have a choice.
 
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PCXT

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Just a quick question about this coating: Is it applied during extrusion or is it applied after?
If after, how penetrating is it (is it?)?
This will shed some light into wear predictions I roughly made.
 

levi

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It's after; it's done in a different european state even (the raw cases are shipped from greece to germany before being finished by being coated with pigment). I'm not sure it I remember ED promising to do some wear testing of the case, or if that was just something someone asked of him.
 

PCXT

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About the wear, generally my knowledge is more in steel than polymers, but, well, this is still a friction. This is really simplified.
1. Most important factors we deal with it are: Normal stress, distance when in friction and, negatively for wear, hardness. These 3 factors make something called "Archard formula" first published in modern form by Khruschev. There is of course a proportionality factor. Generally even if the distance is small, but the stress is large, there will be a problem (see notebooks in tight bags with polished almost non-moving areas of high stress). So don't put your PDA into pocket, better choose well-absorbing protective casing with elastic "suspension" parts.
2. Existing degradations changes surface properties and distance while in contact.
3. The proportional factor is not constant. Yes, in most models in simulation software it is, but if we speak about lots and lots of smaller friction cycles, we cannot just add up distance and pretend it's everything (we'll undershoot) or multiply by number of cycles (we'll overshoot in some places).
The trick to get the vulnerability after many cycles is, in simplified form, to compute "raw" value (sometimes it's work of tangent stresses, sometimes per existing hardness but then making the function per material is a bit more difficult) and pass it to a function to determine the coefficient. What is more important, this function in simplified form looks like two linear functions with different slopes sticked together at some point, the latter goes up faster (surface becomes also degraded by non-frictional factors). It means that it starts slowly, and then degrades more and more violently. This may be partially compensated with material structure versus wear depth and that's why I asked about coating penetration as it may work for good or for bad when the coating wears off.
 

levi

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I don't think ED or whoever is was is concerned with the plastic wearing away, he's only really concerned how easy it is to scratch off this layer, and then to see what it looks like having done that.

With your experience is this area, do you have any advice on how he would have to carry out such an investigation that isn't obvious?
 

PCXT

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In my field (steel), unfortunately these are usually practical measurements. We just measure things after x contact cycles (x like 5000, 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000 etc.) and with this + stresses and distances from simulation of the same process that was measured we find material parameters for function. The measurements of such small values are usually horribly noisy (and many times it's needed to e.g. look under microscope what really happens there) so this "two linear functions" simplification becomes simplified even more to "value-threshold-value" function. And... it works too :).
The polymers are quite problematic with wear cycles predictions in "synthetic tests" (like devices applying friction periodically) as it is really easy during cycle to make it thermally soften and flow. Such results would crank the coefficients up without a reason.
 

Grench

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@PCXT
Let me get this straight. You would like us to hold off about six months so a statistically representative sample, liIely 60+, cases can be sacrificed in wear jigs costing tens of thousands of Euros to establish the wear characteristics of a <20 Euro easily swapped case?

Folks, just think of cases a bit like tires on a car. Plan to replace them every few tens of thousands of pocket insertion cycles. If they last forever in your use case great! If they do not, you are getting a whole lot of use out of your Pyra under severe conditions and a fresh case every few years should not be a big deal.
 

Phlyra

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@PCXT
Let me get this straight. You would like us to hold off about six months so a statistically representative sample, liIely 60+, cases can be sacrificed in wear jigs costing tens of thousands of Euros to establish the wear characteristics of a <20 Euro easily swapped case?

Folks, just think of cases a bit like tires on a car. Plan to replace them every few tens of thousands of pocket insertion cycles. If they last forever in your use case great! If they do not, you are getting a whole lot of use out of your Pyra under severe conditions and a fresh case every few years should not be a big deal.
From what I’ve read - and correct me if I’m wrong, PCXT - I don’t think PCXT is actually suggesting that we do that, just trying to extrapolate from what we already know to apply their engineering experience and calculate estimates.
 

levi

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So, what's the current status of everything?
This plus 12 days. There's no patches currently recorded on the git instances that are linked, although it's always possible with git that people haven't pushed recently, and once they do it'll go back and fill in the history. And I've not heard whether ED's received the painted samples yet, or whether he's been able to build and send out any more prototypes; he's been silent on his personal twitter for the past few weeks, and only made a few shop twitter posts about mobile phones and things as far as I can see.

But in any case, it's traditionally early to demand new news, so for now we'll just have to keep tracking the links to see any updates in the meantime that might allow us to get ahead of the normal news frequency.
 
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