Wrapping everything up!

Grench

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Hold your horses! Until we hear that the ultra generous Grench has got his prototype, I wouldn't even start to consider any of us pre- or non pre-orders getting theirs.
We're all anxious for these to ship. We need to keep in mind prototype gear isn't really meant to be daily driver gear. I'll likely be getting on the list again to buy a 'normal production' Pyra after 'normal production' has gone from backorder to in-stock. We'll see - maybe the prototypes will be closer to perfect than I'm guessing.

I could really see where ED would want the updated cases from the molds with centering pins properly aligning the PCBs to the case plastics for main production. Otherwise plugging something in/out could potentially mess with the shoulder buttons working or not or maybe keys on the keymat not working (misalignment with the mat) or the battery pins not aligned right or other odd behaviors. I'm betting that he needs the prototype cases to be able to accurately measure -where- and -how long- and -what diameter- those important alignment & positioning pins should be for the production cases.
 

levi

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I assume he'll be using these barely good enough for prototype developers to work out where the pins need to go.

What exactly your prototype will be is an interesting question. It seems to be that the vast majority of any possible gremlins both hardware and software have been identified and resolved, so I'm honestly not sure what else needs resolving once cases are there. Which suggests your actually getting an early pre-order unit, and a pre-order unit is defined as an early retail unit, so what you're getting is an early early retail unit. Later retail units might feature slightly slimmer cases, and other bits and pieces, but my instinct says the first couple thousand retail units will be the same as yours.
 

Grench

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I assume he'll be using these barely good enough for prototype developers to work out where the pins need to go.

What exactly your prototype will be is an interesting question. It seems to be that the vast majority of any possible gremlins both hardware and software have been identified and resolved, so I'm honestly not sure what else needs resolving once cases are there. Which suggests your actually getting an early pre-order unit, and a pre-order unit is defined as an early retail unit, so what you're getting is an early early retail unit. Later retail units might feature slightly slimmer cases, and other bits and pieces, but my instinct says the first couple thousand retail units will be the same as yours.
I understand that there were board traces and components fixed manually on the current set of prototype motherboards that were/are getting corrected 'properly' on the production boards. There shouldn't be any difference in board functionality though. So the boards are 'not-quite-but-real-close-to-production'.

The cases - well, we know the story there. The prototype cases may very well require careful positioning and maybe shimming the boards 'just so' in order to keep everything lined up.

OS and software is likely to be a work in progress.

When? Well, since he has cases - if he can make them work - may need some manual 'fine tuning' to make them work. So if he brought the 100 cases back with him and starts fiddling with them in a few days (catch up on day job & family), then maybe assembles a couple over the weekend... If all goes really really well, maybe mine gets built February 2nd or 3rd?
 

Pyramancer

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since the cases were the bottleneck and the molds have been moved:

1. When will the new company have cases made?
2. When are the boards going to be populated?
3. What else needs to be done?
Some of these questions have already been answered:

2. When are the boards going to be populated?
After they've been ordered, manufactured, and have arrived. I think we can be pretty certain that EvilDragon will give us a news post when the boards are ordered along with an updated estimate on their manufacturing and shipping time.

3. What else needs to be done?
Build more prototypes now that there are cases for them, send them out, finish hardware testing(?), order PCBs. Finish getting software in a usable state (including OS, image installer, and automated burn-in tests). Product boxes (and artwork?), manuals and other paperwork (warranty cards?).
 
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NovemberJoy

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You know, this thing might actually be nearing completion. That feels really weird to say after years of work and delays, but it might actually be the case. I won't get my hopes up too high, though. I'm also gonna hope that there aren't any issues like the Pandora apparently had with its first batches.
 

klapse

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Levis' point that the next batch of prototypes are basically 'early pre-orders' and will be identical to the preorder production worries me.

I've been involved with several complex projects, and "this will be the final revision" nowadays triggers not just aversion, but something close to PTSD in me.

More eyeballs find more problems. Would it be wiser to get a 'beta production release Pyra' into the hands of select community members for a few weeks, before committing unrecoverable funds to the production run?

Just asking - since i don't know enough to have an opinion.
 

matzesu

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If i remember correcly, the plan was to send the prototyphs to the prototyph Preeorders, as they are quite expensive, and the first run of the new Cases gets to the Pree Pree Orders and if there are more than 200 , also to the normal Preeorders..
I think whe should wait for the Statement from EvilDragon..
 

crazyhorse

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Levis' point that the next batch of prototypes are basically 'early pre-orders' and will be identical to the preorder production worries me.

I've been involved with several complex projects, and "this will be the final revision" nowadays triggers not just aversion, but something close to PTSD in me.

More eyeballs find more problems. Would it be wiser to get a 'beta production release Pyra' into the hands of select community members for a few weeks, before committing unrecoverable funds to the production run?

Just asking - since i don't know enough to have an opinion.
I think thats already happened, notaz, askarus and others already have prototpes they have been evaluating
 

levi

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I think thats already happened, notaz, askarus and others already have prototpes they have been evaluating
Yeah, that's my instinct as well. Klapse's statement that more eyes find more problems is true as well, and I don't know of any of the prototype users are able to (or inclined to) use it as their main driver. I'm reasonably confident to say that 95% of the hardware niggles have been identified and fixed by now (ignoring case woes for the moment), and the vast majority of things are software niggles to be sorted, but wonder if that 5% is the kind of thing I can live with (like the pandora's old fashioned TRRS port, or usb 1 woes, and workaround needing wifi), or anything more dramatic.
 

crazyhorse

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Yup, the kernel mailing list indicates that the driver for the nubs isn’t written yet amongst other things.I doubt ED would let the paying prototypes into the wild if they are not functioning to a certain level.
 

Askarus

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I have my Prototype running for over a year now.

GPD did release not so good hardware at first and now they improved.
If there are minor bugs, so be it.
It's more important to release some Pyras now.

As long as there are no heavy flaws and every unit has to be replaced i should be fine.
 

levi

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Yup, the kernel mailing list indicates that the driver for the nubs isn’t written yet amongst other things.I doubt ED would let the paying prototypes into the wild if they are not functioning to a certain level.
I've not paid for a prototype, so my opinion is largely academic. but there being a lack of a specific driver making the nubs work is purely a software thing, so I'd be perfectly happy to have a prototype unit now and help testing driver code as it becomes available. As a pre-pre-orderer, I'd actually be happy to get a unit without working nubs yet once the case plastics are there and good, because for me a large part of owning a device like this is watching the development from as close a point as possible.
 

TrashyMG

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From what I understand the Nubs do work with either the Pandora driver and/or FunkyMonkey. I've only been loosely following the events, It seemed to me on the Kernel thread that some of the Prototype testers are not even aware of PyraOS and this communities prior software development efforts.
 

Swordfish II

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Some of these questions have already been answered.

After they've been ordered, manufactured, and have arrived. I think we can be pretty certain that EvilDragon will give us a news post when the boards are ordered along with an updated estimate on their manufacturing and shipping time.


Build more prototypes now that there are cases for them, send them out, finish hardware testing(?), order PCBs. Finish getting software in a usable state (including OS, image installer, and automated burn-in tests). Product boxes (and artwork?), manuals and other paperwork (warranty cards?).
Ok so when will they be ordered? That was never addressed. When the cases are due to be produced wasn't addressed. When are the prototypes going out.

You can't say vague processes "address" questions seeking detail
 

Pyramancer

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Ok so when will they be ordered? That was never addressed.
Actually, that has been addressed at least twice.

In [1] EvilDragon said that he hoped "to have everything done" by 2018-12-12, which was understood at the time to include the ordering of the boards (if not also their manufacture and delivery).

In [2] EvilDragon said that he planned to order the PCBs on or before 2018-12-31.

[1] https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/tests-tests-and-more-tests.83361/
[2] https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/wrapping-everything-up.83465/

These dates have passed of course, in part because other things get in the way, and things don't move forward as quickly as an optimist might hope; and partly because of lack of hardware testers/troubleshooters due to lack of prototypes due to lack of cases due to FormAction's difficulties.

This just goes to show that being drawn in to predicting future dates is a fools game.

The day that EvilDragon announces that the boards have been ordered we will know the date of the ordering of the boards! :) I feel that that will very likely be within the next 60 days. And it might be within the next six hours, for all we know.
You can't say vague processes "address" questions seeking detail
I can sympathise with your desire to have the future exactly predicted for you, but future events in human affairs can only be accurately predicted by accident, and anyone who states that some future event will happen at some specific time is engaging in dishonesty or wishful thinking. (In complex human projects anyway. One might exclude celestial mechanics from that assertion, but even then there can be unexpected perturbations; it is a chaotic system and determinism is an illusion.)
 
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Swordfish II

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Actually, that has been addressed at least twice.

In [1] EvilDragon said that he hoped "to have everything done" by 2018-12-12, which was understood at the time to include the ordering of the boards (if not also their manufacture and delivery).


In [2] EvilDragon said that he planned to order the PCBs on or before 2018-12-31.

[1] https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/tests-tests-and-more-tests.83361/
[2] https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/wrapping-everything-up.83465/

These dates have passed of course, in part because other things get in the way, and things don't move forward as quickly as an optimist might hope; and partly because of lack of hardware testers/troubleshooters due to lack of prototypes due to lack of cases due to FormAction's difficulties.
Exactly. Passed. So my questions stand. Not sure why you think they shouldn't.

This just goes to show that being drawn in to predicting future dates is a fools game.
I'm not asking for a prediction. Simply "New case company expects to start production _____."

And "I plan to order boards on ________"

See any completion dates there? I sure don't. Rather it is SOME info instead of the none we have now.

The day that EvilDragon announces that the boards have been ordered we will know the date of the ordering of the boards! :) I feel that that will very likely be within the next 60 days. And it might be within the next six hours, for all we know.
Which is why i asked....

I can sympathise with your desire to have the future exactly predicted for you,
Again not asking for that, but i think SOMETHING is warranted.
 

Pyramancer

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but i think SOMETHING is warranted.
Yes, certainly another news post is pending, as EvilDragon has yet to tell us of how things progressed with the new case company and what the plan is there going forward (and of shoes and ships and sealing wax and such). And no doubt he will give us that news post once he's got caught his breath after his trip to Greece and has useful information to give us. Seems to me his time is better spent building prototypes and getting them out, finalising the loose ends necessary before the boards can be ordered etc., than in giving us partial updates.
 

levi

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In case you're stuck only being able to see this thread, this isn't in fact the latest news thread. ED posted an update less than two weeks ago, although it's probably fair to say he didn't address any kind of forecast like Swordfish is asking for.
 
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