Nubs and a Schedule (2010-11-04)

[bzar]

I'm hoping for a status update from the board factory today. According to their schedule, they should be start installing nubs today. It would be nice to know if they're still on schedule


(disclaimer: not demanding anything from OPT, merely hoping that the board company would give a status update)

 

[trapef]

Well, it does depend on local regulations, but of course emails can be legally binding. It's certainly at least as binding as an oral contract - except you have proof of it for later on.


Either way, OPT certainly insinuated that they had a legally binding contract (e.g. email) and that there was some penalty if they didn't make it. Otherwise, why make such a big deal about the promise of the 18th? I can't seem to find the quote on a quick search, but I could have sworn seeing reference of that as a big step, since now we had a hard deadline that they needed to make.


Link - interesting as it is to discuss this, I really think the next input here needs to be from OPT. Either they had something binding - what are they going to do, since it was woefully missed, even taking into account the missing nubs, which aren't being waited on - or they didn't, and we were misled to believe otherwise (surprise!). But something isn't adding up.

I did some digging and it appears, there are 4 basic components of a contract, namely, offer, acceptance, consideration (i.e. each party deriving a benefit) and intention to create legal relations. There is no problem in entering into a contract via email and the basic rules of contract creation remain the same as in the offline world.


As you quite rightly infer, it would be pure conjecture to read into this matter further without having sight of the emails or other agreements OPT may have.


Furthermore, the effect of additonal work to solder the nubs will affect previously agreed completion dates of board production as the nubs are now an integral part.

 

[ManlyStump]

DELIVERY


We offer delivery in 24 hours or LESS. Flexibility and Efficiency enable us to exceed customer delivery expectations.

Key word being offer, not provide

 

[mmielke]

That has to be the board company, I mean look at this guy from the front page:

That HAS to be the carsalesman-like boss ED was talking about

I second that notion!

 

[mmielke]

That flag.....

What is going on in the top picture? Are they shredding their OP agreement, it sure seems that way. As for the American flag, companies would rather farm off work to places like China because they work for $25 per month. We are lucky that we are paid a minimum of $7.25 per hour in the states.

 

[TrashyMG]

What is going on in the top picture? Are they shredding their OP agreement, it sure seems that way. As for the American flag, companies would rather farm off work to places like China because they work for $25 per month. We are lucky that we are paid a minimum of $7.25 per hour in the states.

No the electronic components like resistors, capacitors, transistors and etc.. are spooled into plastic reels that the robot pick them out of to solder them to the board.. what your seeing is the emptied ends of those spools of components.


As for the agreement, it was most likely used as toilet paper or something.

 

[EvilDragon]

What is going on in the top picture? Are they shredding their OP agreement, it sure seems that way.

Never seen a population machine?


Basically, the parts come on reels (8mm, same format as the old movie reels, but instead of pictures, there are SMD transistors, resistors, etc. in there).


The machine then populates the board, moving the reel forward, getting the part from there and placing it on the board, then moving to the next one, etc.


The "shredder" you see there are the empty reels coming out of the population machine.


I filmed that process a few years ago here in Ingolstadt, I can grab some parts from it and show you how it works in closeups.


So basically, if you have a board which uses 30 different parts, you need 30 different reels with those parts.


That's also a good reason to try to build the board in a way it doesn't need too many different parts. You can do a lot with optimizing

 

[ledow]

I did some digging and it appears, there are 4 basic components of a contract, namely, offer, acceptance, consideration (i.e. each party deriving a benefit) and intention to create legal relations. There is no problem in entering into a contract via email and the basic rules of contract creation remain the same as in the offline world.

Contracts can be any form. You can have a contract on the back of a napkin, written on a cow (as in a cheque provided to a bank in the 1990's, I believe, because a cheque is nothing more than a promisary note which is a contract to provide funds and thus can be written on anything - yes, the bank had to accept the cheque, though they allowed the man to keep the cow it was written on), orally or any of a million and one ways. There are "more secure" ways to provide contract, e.g. signed pieces of paper, etc. and less secure ways (e.g. in a conversation with friends at a pub) and in that scale email rates pretty highly - an email you sent brought up in court can be used as pretty damning evidence and form part of an implied or actual contract without any problems at all. just look at the SCO vs Novell suits which rely on emails between parties as to the intention of the Asset Purchase Agreement amendments covering much of the Unix business (e.g. multi-million dollar deals). There are only a few accepted ways to "serve" people legally but even then email has been used (and even Facebook instant messages!), so that means it's a pretty damn strong method of legal communication. Hell, even "oral" contracts are binding if you can prove that they happened and their content, it's just that it's so much harder to prove - why do you think insurance companies, banks etc. record your conversations? Because it forms part of your contract because you can be insured within seconds before any paper ever arrives at your house (e.g. car insurance, which I've arranged over the phone within minutes on several occasions - that's a CONTRACT to pay in return for a service provided).


There are obviously jurisdiction issues etc. but pretty much every reasonable court will consider an email that doesn't seem to have been forged to be pretty damning evidence, whether that's for or against whatever you're trying to prove. It came up in the Microsoft anti-trust trials and all sorts. The only questions are: Did a representative of the company send it? Did someone save it (ideally with full headers)? Did the email contain things that implied a new or strengthened an existing contract? Is that contract reasonable? Were those promises kept? But there's NOTHING to stop almost anything forming a legally binding contract. I could claim to be giving you £10 for viewing my website by writing in a forum post like this and that could be construed as a legally binding contract if the court believe I was serious (Hint: I'm not).


<-- formerly married to someone qualified in law.

 

[Nation.A.List]

......<snip>


<-- formerly married to someone qualified in law.

So they got the house, the dog, your record collection etc etc


(hope I didn't touch a nerve there :unsure: )

 

[Caine]

So they got the house, the dog, your record collection etc etc


(hope I didn't touch a nerve there :unsure: )

I was thinking the same thing. That divorce must have been a hell. Then again, I suppose they always are.

 

[mmielke]

Never seen a population machine?


Basically, the parts come on reels (8mm, same format as the old movie reels, but instead of pictures, there are SMD transistors, resistors, etc. in there).


The machine then populates the board, moving the reel forward, getting the part from there and placing it on the board, then moving to the next one, etc.


The "shredder" you see there are the empty reels coming out of the population machine.


I filmed that process a few years ago here in Ingolstadt, I can grab some parts from it and show you how it works in closeups.


So basically, if you have a board which uses 30 different parts, you need 30 different reels with those parts.


That's also a good reason to try to build the board in a way it doesn't need too many different parts. You can do a lot with optimizing

Actually, I knew there was a method for dealing with small parts, I just didn't know that was how it was done.I was joking about the shredding of your agreement, though. If the activity in those Circuit Co pictures are current, it seems as though there isn't much activity going on. Is there any news on when the 2nd batch will start? I would imagine that the 3,000- 4,000 boards would have been manufactured by now. What does an agreement amount to, if affirmative action is not taken? I would imagine that they would be liable for damages to OP's imagine, as well as not perfoming as agreed upon. Am I wrong here? I attempted to contact Circuit CO, but their phone just rings indefinitely. I was also wondering whether there were any complaints aginst the company by the Better Business Bureau. Yeah.............. that would be an excellent idea! Complain to the Better Business Bureau in Texas to make sure that setbacks won't happen again. I think that it would be beneficial to have that backup company populating boards and installing nubs at the same time, that way you'll have redundancy.

 

[ledow]

I was thinking the same thing. That divorce must have been a hell. Then again, I suppose they always are.

Actually, no, because they were simultaneously human (I know! A human lawyer!) and, being a qualified person acting in both our interests at the time, everything was fairly decided. There was no pre-nup, no get-out-clause, and no need to use one, and no intention to ever have one for either of us. We actually sorted it all out in an afternoon and were both happy with the result (as you can be, anyway). Messy divorces come from messy relationships and bitterness. But sometimes people just say "Oh well" and pick the line of least conflict so they can both get on with their lives. There's enough problems at that stage of a relationship without fighting over who owns the ABBA CD.


I still own 50% of the house and she still lives in it (and I can force sale at any moment without needing her consent) but there's no need to - why cause trouble when there's nothing unfair with that arrangement in either of our eyes. Hell, she has dinner round my parent's house every week still - and I think my parent's have created infinitely more hassle for her than our break-up did. But sometimes people just nod, accept the situation, and carry on as human beings rather than cats trapped in the same bag together. Maybe I'm lucky, but not everything has to turn into an episode of Jerry Springer.

 

[mmielke]

Actually, no, because they were simultaneously human (I know! A human lawyer!) and, being a qualified person acting in both our interests at the time, everything was fairly decided. There was no pre-nup, no get-out-clause, and no need to use one, and no intention to ever have one for either of us. We actually sorted it all out in an afternoon and were both happy with the result (as you can be, anyway). Messy divorces come from messy relationships and bitterness. But sometimes people just say "Oh well" and pick the line of least conflict so they can both get on with their lives. There's enough problems at that stage of a relationship without fighting over who owns the ABBA CD.


I still own 50% of the house and she still lives in it (and I can force sale at any moment without needing her consent) but there's no need to - why cause trouble when there's nothing unfair with that arrangement in either of our eyes. Hell, she has dinner round my parent's house every week still - and I think my parent's have created infinitely more hassle for her than our break-up did. But sometimes people just nod, accept the situation, and carry on as human beings rather than cats trapped in the same bag together. Maybe I'm lucky, but not everything has to turn into an episode of Jerry Springer.

What are you referring to?

 

[benji_stein]

...snip...

What are you referring to?

He's referring to this:

......<snip>


<-- formerly married to someone qualified in law.

So they got the house, the dog, your record collection etc etc


(hope I didn't touch a nerve there :unsure: )

Edit: extra quote for clarity.

 

[Gerix]

So...who got the ABBA CD?

 

[emcee]

It seems like they could put some sort of bin down there to catch that stuff. At least when they know they're going to be taking pictures.

 

[Bigun]

ED: Word from the factory?

 

[Poem58]

Shortened for saving space.

Much as it was for my wife and I. Luckily thanks to our willingness to be reasonable with each other and a month of passing time, she decided not to go through with the divorce, and we went on to have a beautiful son and despite some tough times are hanging in there still. I could have been bitter but instead of turning my love for her and her decision to leave into anger and spite, I stayed civil and managed to keep the love of my life.

 

[Wintersdark]

~snip~


But sometimes people just nod, accept the situation, and carry on as human beings rather than cats trapped in the same bag together. Maybe I'm lucky, but not everything has to turn into an episode of Jerry Springer.

OT to pass the time while we wait for more news:


My experience was much the same with my ex-wife. We sat down together, worked out something that we were both happy (or equally unhappy at least?) with, filled out the paperwork, had it notorized and that was that. Took one afternoon to work it out, the next day we filed the paperwork and that was it. Of course, we split up once we knew our marriage wasn't going to work, but we remained civil throughout the process. We've maintained a level of friendship to this day - a little over a decade now. Bad divorces, like you said, come from messy relationships and people who refuse to be mature about the whole thing and treat each other with respect.


It's all about respect.

 

[THB]

Goatee boss man stands over the oriental ladies as they work.