Coming closer (2010-10-25)


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ithic.com
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So if everything is good right now does that mean that shipping the Pandoras would probably start up again late November/ early December? :D


If so I was wondering if it isn't to late change my shipping method to UPS. (Didn't have the money at the time I ordered otherwise I would've then)
Contact the shop you ordered from via email to request UPS shipping.


Peace & Pandora,


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Caine

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Translation for people not using valve time (this is the optimistic version):

  • Sample run this week
  • Samples will be sent to Michael for approvement end of next week (nov. 3-5)
  • Arrival and approval the week after (Nov. 7~10)
  • Nub production starts on Nov. 15, finishes on Nov 26.
  • Nubs ship to texas. Soldering nubs to boards starts December 1.


Shipping to customers before X-mas: no way in hell.


<edit>Funny thread title, given the fact that we're still Two Months away</edit>
 
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tsh

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Translation for people not using valve time (this is the optimistic version):
Well, it may be quite disappointing to have another month appear in the schedule, and maybe tasks won't really be quantised into whole weeks, but I can't see any way around it that makes sense. They could send some samples to Texas in parallel with the inspection, which gets maybe 200 units shipped early - but overall that only saves a day for most people, and there is a risk that these nubs also are scrap (but maybe the nub company are prepared to accept that risk). Certainly there should be no nubs soldered on boards till they have been checked...
 

may88

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so bout 2 weeks till the nubs are done,
Samples made this week and sent to MW. 3 days. this week


shipping 3 days. Early next


MW looks at them and tests them 2 days??? Mid next week.


MW gives the okay (we hope).


Nub Mass production. (1.5 week) so done by w/e Fri 5th Nov


Shipping to board company - 3 days

a couple weeks for the nubs to be soldered on and shipped back to uk
unpack and prepare 2 days - w/e 12th Nov


Not sure what rate these are soldered on or how long the testing would take.


We know there are about 200 boards completed (2000 claimed). 5 days. w/e 20th Nov


Another week to finish a shippable quanty. w/e 27th Nov


Shipped to UK? 5 days - 3rd Dec

a couple weeks for assembly into completed pandoras
unpacking 1 day.


four days at 100/day = 400 units shipped w/e 10th Dec


Another week of production and shipping 500+ produced w/e 17th Dec ((start to hit Christmas post delay maybe)) Not sure how quick the UK assembly will speed up to 500-1000/week.


Last week before Christmas questions.


Have any more than 900 newly nubbed boards been sent to the UK?


Are there enough LCD cables available? Stocks of soldered ones in the UK would be getting low.


Maybe another 500-1000 posted before Christmas.


Week between Christmas is only 3 working days and there may be holidays booked (UK staff are allowed holidays too :) ).


With 4 days in the first week of the new year. 500 units


so far of the 4000 in batch 1 - 900 in the wild - 1900 above (@100/day) = 1200 to go.


So the last week in Jan 2011 sees the end of batch one given a sustained rate of 100/day.


Whilst I suspect the UK can work quicker that this we're yet to see how quickly the board company will supply finished boards to the UK and how smoothly those deliveries will be (customs, UPS and volcanoes permitting).

a couple weeks for shipping to your shop then out to customers
this is concurrent with UK assembly, but yes there will be postal delays. 2x for ED's customers.

...why does it always feel like it's 2 months away regardless of what step we are in the process?
Not yet at the two monthTM mark yet.
 
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Dead1nside

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Thanks ED, for the detailed explanations. It is of course sensible for samples to be sent to MWeston, and it's reassuring that the company wants to do this.


I'm still concerned about the boards, but that's nothing new.


Keep going, you're doing a sterling job and I like the socketised nub idea.
 

marktuson

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Me too, and that really scares me :(


I know they'll do it... but in what time?


Thanks. We really are doing the best we can right now.
Is there any news about more one-nubbers? It's been brought up before (and I've PMed around a little), but there seems to be no 'official' stance on them at the moment, unless I've missed something.
 

Valpskott

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Thanks ED, for the detailed explanations. It is of course sensible for samples to be sent to MWeston, and it's reassuring that the company wants to do this.

I agree fully. I'm around 500th place in batch 2 if I've understood correctly, and I'm eager as hell to get a hold on my Pandora. But what I wouldn't want, is that the team started to cut corners because of being stressed from all the negative remarks posted on this Forum. Soo, take your time with testing and quality-control!
 

Jumpman

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At the end of the day, I really just think all these companies underestimated what the Pandora would be, and what would be required to see things thru to the end. So many companies are so quick to take funds, and not really be prepared to deliver.


The mould company was the first to hit the quality control wall, and took forever to step it up, and deliver a quality case. The nub guys did the same, and just produced the bare minimum to get the job done, and now we all have to wait while the problem is fixed. Last of course is the board company who I just think figured if the other guys failed, they wouldn't have to do shit in a quick manner. Which at the end of the day was correct.


At this point, I really can't blame the team. Anyone with 2 cents to rub together, can see that all these companies only wanted to do the least amount of work possible, and reap the highest profits they could. The team now has to work twice as hard for the same results, due to these companies poor business practices.


Sadly, this is a worldwide problem, and no one seems to care at the end of the day. If only 4000 units can ever get produced, at least a company went above and beyond to try to deliver a vision and dream to the masses. I'm still holding firm, and wishing the team well. Hopefully these companies can get their shit together, and deliver what was promised from the begining.


Chris
 

Korlithiel

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Thanks Ed for the update.


It still bothers me the turnaround time on my unit, thanks to the wonderful timing in my life means having shipped in Sept. and likely won't see a working unit until Dec. when it's during the same time I am waiting around to hear back on college admissions (aka nothing special to do). But if I had been more concerned with getting a fully working unit I probably would have invested that money into a larger company and went with a smartphone/monthly contract from hell.


So, I was happy with my Pandora and while disgruntled about the current wait it's much more to do with my personal life then having to wait for my replacement Pandora to arrive.
 

Nation.A.List

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boy i'm glad i jumped into the one nubber's wagon, oooo yes baby :D
And I'm looking forward (albeit further than I would have liked) to rubbing my two nubs in your face, if you'll pardon the expression.
 
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Lynceus Glaciermaw

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At the end of the day, I really just think all these companies underestimated what the Pandora would be, and what would be required to see things thru to the end. So many companies are so quick to take funds, and not really be prepared to deliver.


The mould company was the first to hit the quality control wall, and took forever to step it up, and deliver a quality case. The nub guys did the same, and just produced the bare minimum to get the job done, and now we all have to wait while the problem is fixed. Last of course is the board company who I just think figured if the other guys failed, they wouldn't have to do shit in a quick manner. Which at the end of the day was correct.


At this point, I really can't blame the team. Anyone with 2 cents to rub together, can see that all these companies only wanted to do the least amount of work possible, and reap the highest profits they could. The team now has to work twice as hard for the same results, due to these companies poor business practices.


Sadly, this is a worldwide problem, and no one seems to care at the end of the day. If only 4000 units can ever get produced, at least a company went above and beyond to try to deliver a vision and dream to the masses. I'm still holding firm, and wishing the team well. Hopefully these companies can get their shit together, and deliver what was promised from the begining.


Chris

I agree with you completely. The real shame is that the Pandora itself is suffering because of these companies' laziness. And now that they've been sent the message and are finally doing things right, things are taking much longer than they should have. Which really hurts everyone.
 

marktuson

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I agree with you completely. The real shame is that the Pandora itself is suffering because of these companies' laziness. And now that they've been sent the message and are finally doing things right, things are taking much longer than they should have. Which really hurts everyone.
This is what I've been thinking. Considering that these companies, from what I've read on here, don't get paid until the stuff is all made, you'd've thought they'd put a bit more effort in, wouldn't you? I mean, from what I've worked out, the whole project is worth just shy of £1,200,000 - there must be half a million of that in the board and nub production companies (open to correction), so what are they playing at?


Next time, a contract needs to be arranged that reduces the price with each delay.
 

EvilDragon

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No idea, but we're pushing them AND also working on moving to a bigger and better facility for Batch 2... a lot of work, a lot of stress, but we won't give up :)
 

limpopokanoah

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Just keep it up ED. I know I'll still be waiting around patiently. Y'all just try and keep your heads on straight, and don't let those poorly managed companies get you down. Two years is better then never no matter what all of my friends say.


Pandora Forever,


Thomas


And as always thank you for supporting our news cravings.
 

Wintersdark

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It's a rampant problem with manufacturing and production companies these days. It's a race to the bottom: Each underbids the other, then attempts to deliver products within those constraints. Quality suffers as a result, because quality costs. Unfortunately, you cannot choose a slightly more expensive manufacturer and assume you'll get better quality, nor can a manufacturer prove that they will actually provide better quality short of actually producing it. No one gives the higher priced manufacturer a chance, however, because they've likely been burned by higher priced shops that still deliver shit.


It's not an Evil Plot by manufacturers to screw people, though. Each must undercut it's competitors to get business, and the lost revenue then must be made up somewhere.


It's the nature of manufacturing work, then. I've been working in the field (though in different industries within it) for over a decade, and I've watched this happen. It's a gradual process.


This is how it works, how quality is obtained:


1) A production run is set up. Initial product quality is terrible, and is adjusted during the "make ready" process to get a saleable part.


* The time this takes, and the amount of scrap produced in the process, is controlled by the skill of the workers. Obtaining, training, and keeping skilled workers costs money. Lower wages leads to lower worker retention, and training of course is a direct cost. Underskilled workers enormously increase scrap production, even on an otherwise skilled crew: People make mistakes.


* Thus, the definition of "saleable" is very subjective. A product is saleable when while not perfect, it is within established engineering limits. Manufacturers can save costs by broadening those limits - and thus reducing overall product quality.


2) Once a product is "saleable" the workers start saving the product, but continue to work to bring it closer to "spec", to improve the product quality. This too is a direct function of worker skill.


* Note that this, as well as with point 1, happens irregardless of the degree of automation in the manufacturing process: Humans need to tune the machines to run properly, to account for mechanical wear, environmental factors, and any number of other variables.


3) Testing is performed during the production run, of a sample selection of parts. This is usually done at regular, frequent intervals. If a problem arises, workers fix it as quickly as possible. During this time, the production is usually scrapped (unless the part is still deemed "saleable"). As such, worker skill again directly impacts costs - less skilled workers make this process take longer, more scrap is produced (waste materials) and more production time is used (less opportunity for overall production via wasted machine time; increased labour costs for workers; increased overall production time).


4) More testing is performed post-production; either during packaging or during any post-production work such as assembly. This testing typically has wider margins for saleability, because scrapping at this stage generally requires a full restart of the manufacturing process. The setup time/waste is the largest overall cost to the manufacturer, so they are very reluctant to re-produce goods at this stage.


In order to reduce costs, then, manufacturers can choose:


* Reduce wages. This directly impacts worker skill, which reduces production and quality.


* Produce faster. This requires, for a given level of worker skill, laxer quality control specifications. Machines are already running as fast as they can while producing a saleable product (it's senseless to do otherwise), so the only way you can get more products out the door faster is by declaring a part saleable earlier in the makeready process, or by keeping more products during the run that have minor problems.


* Use cheaper materials. Cheaper materials are cheaper for a reason. 'Nuff said.


This constant undercutting, then, results in decreased quality. It's our own fault, though: It's a fact of most business, "Fast, cheap, or quality. Choose two." People have voted with their wallets every single time: Fast and cheap. So, that's what happens.


Unfortunately, then, when you are looking to have a product produced, Fast and Cheap is the assumption. You could in fact discuss with the manufacturer that high quality is extremely important to you, and that time is not critical - your product will take substantially longer to produce, but be of higher quality. However, no one does this. Likewise, you could say that quality is critical, and you need it ASAP, but be prepared to pay a high premium for this. Again, almost no one does this. I've seen both of these happen, and they have worked, but always at the cost mentioned.


And that's our manufacturing lecture for the day.
 

tsh

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...


And that's our manufacturing lecture for the day.
Well said.


My 0.03€ would be to think very carefully about the risks of changing an arrangement which does seem to sort of work. Closer to home and better supervision might be a factor, but don't assume anyone else would have treated you much better.
 

Wintersdark

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Well said.


My 0.03€ would be to think very carefully about the risks of changing an arrangement which does seem to sort of work. Closer to home and better supervision might be a factor, but don't assume anyone else would have treated you much better.

This. Once a given manufacturer understands your requirements, they'll work very hard to continue to provide that. They may well charge you more in the future than they did initially, but if they in the future do meet requirements and commitments, then don't be too fast to drop them for someone else who promises better. Not until the someone else has proven they can do so - and make sure that the new manufacturer is aware that you're still using the old one until you are satisfied that the new one can meet it's commitments.
 
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