Nubs and a Schedule (2010-11-04)


Think MWeston gave them a green light within the past ten days/two weeks. Not researching, check your facts, this ain't Fox News.

Referring to the populated boards (minus nubs), not the nubs. Remember how the board company claimed all 3000 boards would be finished on the 18th? Then weren't? That deadline. I had, in fact, checked my ... well, facts ... . Did you follow the link I'd included?
 
I wasn't referring to boards. I was talking about nubs. Boards aren't going anywhere till they get nubbed, so maybe they want to be nubbing and building at the same time rather than having 3000 boards hanging out. I'm looking for forward progress here and basically we are still waiting on nubs. Once the Texas Slowdown gets them, then we'll see how slow they are or more likely where they are since that will be the next "hurdle". Good thing there is no Chinese New Year in Texas, but Thanksgiving is coming up so lets hope things get moving in the air before all that Santa poop starts flying around.


Peace & Pandora,


Link
 
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I wasn't referring to boards. I was talking about nubs. Boards aren't going anywhere till they get nubbed, so maybe they want to be nubbing and building at the same time rather than having 3000 boards hanging out. I'm looking for forward progress here and basically we are still waiting on nubs. Once the Texas Slowdown gets them, then we'll see how slow they are or more likely where they are since that will be the next "hurdle". Good thing there is no Chinese New Year in Texas, but Thanksgiving is coming up so lets hope things get moving in the air before all that Santa poop starts flying around.

They are doing this.


Check the current status page for a pretty detailed timeline :)


They are populating boards while testing others and while putting nubs on :)
 
They are doing this.


Check the current status page for a pretty detailed timeline :)


They are populating boards while testing others and while putting nubs on :)

Hmm. I hadn't looked at that closely enough before, I guess. Then I'll ask the question a different way. Why are they *still* testing the first 1000 boards Nov 1st -12th when they told us that "Over 1000 boards have already been tested (well, except for the nubs)." Similarly, why are they populating the second set of boards Oct 18th - Nov 11th when they similarly said that "Over 2000 boards are finished with SMT populating." and "The last 1000 boards are half finished (SMT populating only on one side yet)."???


Now that't is't one of those deadlines, do we have any pictures of a larger set of boards?
 
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Hmm. I hadn't looked at that closely enough before, I guess. Then I'll ask the question a different way. Why are they *still* testing the first 1000 boards Nov 1st -12th when they told us that "Over 1000 boards have already been tested (well, except for the nubs)." Similarly, why are they populating the second set of boards Oct 18th - Nov 11th when they similarly said that "Over 2000 boards are finished with SMT populating." and "The last 1000 boards are half finished (SMT populating only on one side yet)."???

THAT is something I also would love to know. The "2000 boards are finished" came from their boss, who sometimes reminds me of a car salesman.


The schedule came from one of the guys from the production team, so it sounds more accurate and plausible for me.

Now that't is't one of those deadlines, do we have any pictures of a larger set of boards?

Not yet, hope to get some soon.
 
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THAT is something I also would love to know. The "2000 boards are finished" came from their boss, who sometimes reminds me of a car salesman.


The schedule came from one of the guys from the production team, so it sounds more accurate and plausible for me.

Was he the one who made the original promise that they would all be done by Oct 18th? Because I look at that timeline, and see "Third 1000 PCBs: Production: Nov. 5th - Nov 30th" which is almost a month and a half later than originally promised (*if* they keep on schedule). You said that there would be repercussions and/or reparations if they didn't make the 10/18, and when you saw what they did have, your response was "well, OK, maybe; they're kind of close". Now they clearly weren't anywhere close. What are they going to do in compensation?
 
Was he the one who made the original promise that they would all be done by Oct 18th? Because I look at that timeline, and see "Third 1000 PCBs: Production: Nov. 5th - Nov 30th" which is almost a month and a half later than originally promised (*if* they keep on schedule). You said that there would be repercussions and/or reparations if they didn't make the 10/18, and when you saw what they did have, your response was "well, OK, maybe; they're kind of close". Now they clearly weren't anywhere close. What are they going to do in compensation?

ED: Is everything going according to schedule? According to the status update, the next batch of 1000 Pandoras are scheduled to ship on the 24th. I hope that here isn't a 2 month delay! I'm in the 850-950 range in the 2nd batch (or 650?, I've lost the email)
 
Benji,


While I understand your concern, does it really matter how many manufacturerd boards ARE done at this point? 100 Nubs are done (is what I gathered) and enroute, which is 50 boards that these can be attached to. So once those boards have nubs, this is a days of work for Village Hall. Mass production has started on more nubs. What do you want from the board company in all reality? Give it a break, even if all 3000 boards were done, they are not done til they are nubbed. There are better things ED could be doing than asking the board company about reparations and repurcussions as far as this project is concerned at this point in the game in my opinion. The nub company failed here, delivering an untested unreliable product that ruined boards and caused a good bit of RMA Pandoras. The nub folks are trying to make that right. Board folks have not been 100% timely but boards aren't failing and they can't finish without nubs.


Have you considered for a minute that when this all started that the board people were supposed to manufacture the boards and assemble the Pandoras too. That changed, how do we not know the PCB company is losing money now that they aren't putting the Pandora's together? Hence the priority shift and really, there are no nubs yet.


My question to ED is what is the status of cases for Batch2?


Peace & Pandora,


Link
 
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Benji,


While I understand your concern, does it really matter how many manufacturerd boards ARE done at this point? 100 Nubs are done (is what I gathered) and enroute, which is 50 boards that these can be attached to. So once those boards have nubs, this is a days of work for Village Hall. Mass production has started on more nubs. What do you want from the board company in all reality? Give it a break, even if all 3000 boards were done, they are not done til they are nubbed. There are better things ED could be doing than asking the board company about reparations and repurcussions as far as this project is concerned at this point in the game in my opinion. The nub company failed here, delivering an untested unreliable product that ruined boards and caused a good bit of RMA Pandoras. The nub folks are trying to make that right. Board folks have not been 100% timely but boards aren't failing and they can't finish without nubs.


Have you considered for a minute that when this all started that the board people were supposed to manufacture the boards and assemble the Pandoras too. That changed, how do we not know the PCB company is losing money now that they aren't putting the Pandora's together? Hence the priority shift and really, there are no nubs yet.


My question to ED is what is the status of cases for Batch2?


Peace & Pandora,


Link

Link,


Of course it matters. Because if they told us they had 2000 3 weeks ago and didn't *actually* have them done, why should we believe it if they tell us that now?


More than that, it's because we have a signed agreement saying that they would be complete by the 18th. The whole point of doing that was to get the board company in gear, and have some penalty if it wasn't ready. So that they *would* be accountable, and give us something if they didn't meet their promised expectations, which they hadn't been doing to date. They didn't so OPT should get something in return - otherwise what was the point of the contract?


I don't disagree that the nub company failed equally hard, but if the board company was finished sooner, we wouldn't have to wait an extra couple of weeks in the middle to put the last nubs on the boards. And yes, the board company has failed many times - both to meet the promised speeds, and in the wireless trace issue (remember that?). They also changed their cost estimates for assembly, so it's no wonder that OPT changed their mind on it. Good thing, because they probably would have been slow on that, too.


50 Pandoras is nothing - OPT claims that they can build 200 in a day of work in the village hall, so 50 doesn't cut the queue a whole lot. Sure, they can't do much without the rest of the nubs, but the nubs are useless without the boards. And I'm not convinced that they'll be ready. Which is why I want to know how many are actually built/tested, why their numbers aren't consistent, and what their punishment is going to be, if they don't make this new deadline, either.


I'm also interested in the status of boards/cases for batch 2, but I think the boards will be a bigger issue, and you have to get through the rest of batch 1, first.
 
^


I think punishment of moving to a new company is quite sufficient. I feel that pressuring them for anything other than what is owed is hindering the project short term. Long term, things can be moved to the new company. What are they going to get? Detention? Suspension? No money? I don't see how there can be any punishment other than taking business elsewhere. So by asking for punishment we could get nothing short term is my fear. Once they get nubs, I can see testing and nubbing happening in sequence. How can the boards truly be tested unless there are nubs attached regarding a functional Pandora board ready for assembly into cases?


Since OP is looking at a new company, I wouldn't be surprised if things were already happening behind the scenes to test out their MP board. What is said punishment going to prove to the current company?


What do you want to see happen to the current board company is my ultimate question? That's been my point as well. Where is this signed statement you speak of, I'm not trying to be a jerk just have an open discussion.
 
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^


I think punishment of moving to a new company is quite sufficient. I feel that pressuring them for anything other than what is owed is hindering the project short term. Long term, things can be moved to the new company. What are they going to get? Detention? Suspension? No money? I don't see how there can be any punishment other than taking business elsewhere. So by asking for punishment we could get nothing short term is my fear. Once they get nubs, I can see testing and nubbing happening in sequence. How can the boards truly be tested unless there are nubs attached regarding a functional Pandora board ready for assembly into cases?


Since OP is looking at a new company, I wouldn't be surprised if things were already happening behind the scenes to test out their MP board. What is said punishment going to prove to the current company?


What do you want to see happen to the current board company is my ultimate question? That's been my point as well. Where is this signed statement you speak of, I'm not trying to be a jerk just have an open discussion.

Signed was perhaps too strict a term. But they did have it "in writing" as stated here. Legally binding, and all that jazz. The real point is that OPT then said (several times) that it would be enough to hold them to it, if they didn't make it.


What should they do in return? Unclear. Accept a cheaper price? Partial refund? Devotion of more resources, to complete by a to-be-chosen date, or else be force to a higher discount and/or more resources? IANAL, so I don't know what's typical in this situation. But it is certainly my understanding that most contracts have some sort of penalty associated if either party doesn't meet up with their side of the bargain, including delivery date. Otherwise, there's never an incentive to actually complete - you just say "yeah, yeah, soon!" which isn't untrue.


If the current board company thinks the chances of OPT moving to another company are low, then they've got their head stuck in the sand. They haven't met with any estimates they gave, and have messed up left-and-right (though, of course, still not nearly as badly as the case company). Their only chance is to step up their game, and prove they can do what they promised - which they still haven't shown. Otherwise, it seems pretty clear that their lousy service has pushed OPT away, so I'd be surprised if they could delude themselves into thinking they'll keep OPT as a customer long term. But short term, they've got OPT by the balls, and seem to be doing everything they can to draw it out.
 
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Just out of curiosity, what is the name of the board company?

We don't know. At one point OPT suggested (threatened) that they would release this information, in an attempt to shame the company, but then they didn't actually do so. Perhaps that was enough to make the company step up its game, or perhaps it was all just a show.





Interestingly the twitter post is now gone...
 
That has to be the board company, I mean look at this guy from the front page:


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That HAS to be the carsalesman-like boss ED was talking about
 
Dear God...


If this is the board manufacturer it certainly explains a few things...
 
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