GamesCom, Shoulderbuttons and Heating

[TeDaDeS]

I'll be there tomorrow. Hopefully I don't forget to take pics.

 

[DrHAX]

what if you were to curve the buttons towards the middle and make it so one finger is used? have them be fitted together like puzzle prices so pressing the middle presses both while pressing one or the other is simply clicking up or down

 

[Null]

Because he's not looking at his crystal ball

 

[zonova]

For the record, I would much rather have only 1 shoulder button on each side if it meant that it functioned better or was longer lasting. I'd rather have a very physically robust system than one where keys fall out because we tried to cram in to much. Two sub-par performing shoulder buttons would be very bad, even the semi-usable but squishy shoulder buttons on a massively funded product like the Vita was a turn off for me. Having one set close to perfection would be ideal instead of trying to spend so much time trying to get 2 shoulder buttons to even fit, let alone work smoothly. Just my thoughts. And yes, I'm going off the assumption that we won't be able to make a two-button design as good as a single-button design. That's fairly obvious, considering we've had a lot more experience with single button designs from the Pandora.

 

[ekianjo]

Do we really need four shoulder buttons? We still have six face buttons right?


Could the additional shoulder button area be used for something else? Two shoulder buttons may be enough. Its enough for dreamcast and gamecube (if we get gamecube). Ps1 and ps2? We can remap the buttons?


If four is absolutely required then maybe just two small nibs or pronounced bumps?

It is clumsy to play games like MSG1 with no proper 4 shoulder buttons.

Not that bad with keyboard mappings.

 

[fusion_power]

I restarted the triggers from scratch, based onto the actual Pandora trigger and then added the 2. trigger after these ideas from the ascii sketch. Both buttons are made after the Pandora render pics but I tried to "fit" them into the Pyra renderings from ED where he showed us his ideas of 2 pairs of triggers. Still not that accurate (no idea of the new measurements and PCB position) but you get the idea. Lower button is basicly a shorter Pandora trigger, flush with the case. New button above sticks out a little bit and is of course not flush with the case. Gap between both triggers is 2-3mm, should be thick enough for the case to fill it out.

Both triggers share one hinge with enough space in between for the PCB.

 

[Saber]

I restarted the triggers from scratch, based onto the actual Pandora trigger and then added the 2. trigger after these ideas from the ascii sketch. Both buttons are made after the Pandora render pics but I tried to "fit" them into the Pyra renderings from ED where he showed us his ideas of 2 pairs of triggers. Still not that accurate (no idea of the new measurements and PCB position) but you get the idea. Lower button is basicly a shorter Pandora trigger, flush with the case. New button above sticks out a little bit and is of course not flush with the case. Gap between both triggers is 2-3mm, should be thick enough for the case to fill it out.


Both triggers share one hinge with enough space in between for the PCB.

...and I even like the color.

Nice job.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Do we really need four shoulder buttons? We still have six face buttons right?


Could the additional shoulder button area be used for something else? Two shoulder buttons may be enough. Its enough for dreamcast and gamecube (if we get gamecube). Ps1 and ps2? We can remap the buttons?


If four is absolutely required then maybe just two small nibs or pronounced bumps?

It is clumsy to play games like MSG1 with no proper 4 shoulder buttons.

Not that bad with keyboard mappings.

Well, I said clumsy not impossible.  You can get by but not comfortable/enjoyable with the Q and P or 1 and DEL as L2 and R2.

Looks like Fusion_Power has a nice solution there.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

I restarted the triggers from scratch, based onto the actual Pandora trigger and then added the 2. trigger after these ideas from the ascii sketch. Both buttons are made after the Pandora render pics but I tried to "fit" them into the Pyra renderings from ED where he showed us his ideas of 2 pairs of triggers. Still not that accurate (no idea of the new measurements and PCB position) but you get the idea. Lower button is basicly a shorter Pandora trigger, flush with the case. New button above sticks out a little bit and is of course not flush with the case. Gap between both triggers is 2-3mm, should be thick enough for the case to fill it out.


Both triggers share one hinge with enough space in between for the PCB.

...and I even like the color.

Nice job.

We need Calico Pyras!

 

[ShleeDragon]

MO buttons, MO problems.

 

[levi]

Looks like Fusion_Power has a nice solution there.

I still think ED's solution of not having the bottom shoulder button wrapping around the bottom of the device is preferable since it should mean the device is less fragile in case it falls on that corner. I can't quite forsee how F_P's design would look if the bottom trigger was less tall as needed for that design feature.

 

[lurker]

Would the shoulderbutton layout from the Wii Classic Controller be an option?

Only if we sacrifice all ports :/

Here's an idea:

Cover some of the ports with flaps. With flaps open, you could access the ports. With flaps closed, they would double as extra buttons.

How would you use those port while pressing the buttons at the same time? And how is this technically possible?

You wouldn't. You choose between the port and the button. Which is better than permanent "ports and no buttons" or "buttons and no ports".

As for the possibility, here's some ASCII art:

          flap

       =============---\
                    \--o    hinge
        ----------  _  
        |        | -|-  
--------|  PORT  |-|B|--------
        |        | |T|
  PCB   |        | |N|
        ----------





            ||
          __||__
         /      \
        /  plug  \      ||
        |        |      ||
        ----------      ||
         |      |       ||
         | [][] |       ||
         |      |       ||
         --------       ||
                       / |
                       | |
        ----------  _  o-/
        |        | -|-  
--------|  PORT  |-|B|--------
        |        | |T|
  PCB   |        | |N|
        ----------

 

[Saber]

Looks like Fusion_Power has a nice solution there.

I still think ED's solution of not having the bottom shoulder button wrapping around the bottom of the device is preferable since it should mean the device is less fragile in case it falls on that corner. I can't quite forsee how F_P's design would look if the bottom trigger was less tall as needed for that design feature.

Well, Nintendo uses wrapped shoulder buttons for the 3DS/XL line and whatever they've done with those shoulders has survived innumerable collisions from the children(like my nieces) who use/abuse their devices. It is true what you say about the Pandora triggers being fragile, but if the Pyra's L1 and R1 are redesigned, to be more like corner caps like the XL's but shorter, then typical short depth falls could have little impact on the frame at those two junctions. The caps may even provide minor protection against spills, but we don't know for sure yet.

 

[TrashyMG]

You wouldn't. You choose between the port and the button. Which is better than permanent "ports and no buttons" or "buttons and no ports".

Thanks but no thanks, I rather have the current situation primary button that are okay to press and secondary shoulder buttons that are a tad more awkward to press. 

Fusion-Power's solution looks interesting if ED is willing to check out the feasibility of it. If done properly it shouldn't be fragile like the Pandora's buttons.

 

[lurker]

It's not either-or. You could have the secondary shitty-to-press (but always available) button, and the "flappy" button that's much more convenient (esp. for games), but usable only without stuff connected to the ports.

 

[Letalis Sonus]

Holding the Pandora in my hand, my finger tips are pointing slightly downwards along the backside, so ideally the inner buttons should be as low as possible, that diagonal design is the other way round than what would probably be ideal. I only trigger the original ones on their edge, keeping my finger tips free to move - as long as they go around the corner there is no need to make them that long on the outside. Cutting the current shoulder button vertically in the middle and eventually make the inner one ribbed and sticking out a bit like in those last render pics does seem to be a very comfortable solution, at least for my hands.

 

[comradekingu]

Two buttons that overlap like that makes sense, but how about a wedge shape so that you wiggle up and down with only the one finger?

If you place your finger in the middle of the buttons, and it was shaped like a spoon divided in two, it would be easy to direct force inwards by moving vertically.

That or hitting with the tip as opposed to the middle of the joint on the index finger.

 

[Neelix]

Holding the Pandora in my hand, my finger tips are pointing slightly downwards along the backside, so ideally the inner buttons should be as low as possible, that diagonal design is the other way round than what would probably be ideal. I only trigger the original ones on their edge, keeping my finger tips free to move - as long as they go around the corner there is no need to make them that long on the outside. Cutting the current shoulder button vertically in the middle and eventually make the inner one ribbed and sticking out a bit like in those last render pics does seem to be a very comfortable solution, at least for my hands.

So you're suggesting something more along the lines of this then?


_______________
/
|
|________
| R1 |
|_______/ _____
| _____/ R2 |
| |___________|
|________________

- Neelix

 

[Letalis Sonus]

Yeah, it would probably more comfortable, but I'm not sure if this design is feasible. FWIW, I'd already be content with a normal side-by-side design by just shortening the outer button, it really just needs to expose the corner.

 

[fusion_power]

...and I even like the color.

Nice job.

Thanks. ^^ Colours are of course are only for visual separation of both buttons.

I still think ED's solution of not having the bottom shoulder button wrapping around the bottom of the device is preferable since it should mean the device is less fragile in case it falls on that corner. I can't quite forsee how F_P's design would look if the bottom trigger was less tall as needed for that design feature.

Of course it would not work that way if the bottom trigger is not wrapped like onto the Pandora. That was the basic idea. I don't see it as "design feature" but more as an effective way to place the button as low as possible to maximize it's size. ED's design wastes alot of space so both buttons have to be pretty small to fit.And you so or so shouldn't let your Handheld fall to the ground. And I think a broken button is cheaper to replace than a broken case. There also could be a solution to rubberize the buttons, mainly for grip but also for some extra protection. ^^