Action button labels

[_wb_]

You'd think if someone paid over 500EUR for a device, they'd be able to tell the difference between face buttons and keyboard keys if a game properly documents the controls.

OK. How do you properly document the controls?

Have a help screen that looks like this?

A action button: rotate left

B action button: rotate right

Q keyboard key: quit

A keyboard key: apply effect

B keyboard key: bold

F keyboard key: fit to screen

X action button: zoom out

Y action button: zoom in

H keyboard key: help

X keyboard key: cut

Y keyboard key: yellow

Z keyboard key: undo

Yeah, that looks nice.

 

[milkshake]

Indeed it does

 

[WizardStan]

Lol, doesn't work at all. They are is used for action buttons and keyboard.

Why not? It's probably been 12 years since I could consider myself fluent in French but as a certified "computer nerd" in high school I distinctly recall the difference between keys on a keyboard and buttons in an elevator (for example). Buttons are buttons, keys are keys: just because they both exist at the same time doesn't change that.
Either way, I'm still convinced that people are not generally that stupid and that context is usually sufficient.

 

[Kiga]

"touche" and "bouton" on a device like this can be used for all the buttons. It is VERY ambiguous

Either way, I'm still convinced that people are not generally that stupid and that context is usually sufficient.

I never said that, what I am saying is we don't have to follow labelling of device which haven't a keyboard, the base, the sense of labelling is to chose different label  and I don't see a single reason to keep Latin letters

 

[_wb_]

Indeed it does

No it does not. It looks horrible. Most of that help screen is wasted on words that would be redundant if the explicit disambiguation was not necessary. If you use both the latin-label game keys and the keyboard buttons, explicit disambiguation is necessary just to make it clear which key does what action. And what's the point of having game controls and a keyboard if you don't want to have applications that use both of them at the same time?


Do you really think this looks nice:

A action button: rotate leftB action button: rotate right

Q keyboard key: quit

A keyboard key: apply effect

B keyboard key: bold

F keyboard key: fit to screen

Y action button: zoom in

X action button: zoom out

H keyboard key: help

X keyboard key: cut

Y keyboard key: yellow

Z keyboard key: undo

when it could also look like this:

Π  rotate leftΩ  rotate right

Q  quit

A  apply effect

B  bold

F  fit to screen

Δ  zoom in

χ  zoom out

H  help

X  cut

Y  yellow

Z  undo

 

[milkshake]

why not:

A button: rotate left
B button: rotate right
Q key: quit
A key: apply effect
B key: bold
F key: fit to screen
Y button: zoom in
X button: zoom out
H key: help
X key: cut
Y key: yellow
Z key: undo

I am perfectly happy with this plus if we have something like Gui Hints its hard to go wrong!

 

[Ziz]

(A) apply effect

( B) rotate right

(X) zoom out

(Y) zoom in

Q quit

B bold

F fit to screen

H help

X cut

Y yellow

Z undo

?
Or maybe:

Gamebuttons:

(A) apply effect

( B) rotate right

(X) zoom out

(Y) zoom in

Keyboard:

Q quit

B bold

F fit to screen

H help

X cut

Y yellow

Z undo

 

[milkshake]

indeed

 

[_wb_]

Using only the words "button" and "key" is not enough since all keys are buttons by definition, and all buttons are implemented as keys.
 
Using conventions like [A] for keys and (A) for buttons requires that this convention is generally agreed upon and known by everyone. I don't think we have such a convention at the moment.
 
Anyway, this is not the main issue with Latin letters imo. The main issue is that

C  Y 
A      B
Z  X

will make people who see it for the first time say "WTF! What's the rationale behind that ?!!?", and they would be right. Having those very same labels already on 6 other buttons a few centimeters away does not help, but it's not the main problem.

 

[milkshake]

Using only the words "button" and "key" is not enough since all keys are buttons by definition, and all buttons are implemented as keys.

All keys are a type of button true, but buttons not NOT keys.

 

[_jr_]

For non native English speakers they are. Really. And for some native English speakers they seem to be, too.

 

[Grench]

To my understanding, they're not all the same size.

c Y
A   B
z X

Arranged on buttons it's perfectly clear. You have 4 action buttons and 2 'extras' thrown in to make 6.

Changing them to characters from a mostly dead language simply makes a relatively easy to understand set into a totally illegible mess.

Latin letters function clarity grade: A. Aesthetics may be a B.
Greek letters function clarity grade: D. Aesthetics may be a C.

Function is far more important than form - particularly when that form breaks function.

 

[_wb_]

To my understanding, they're not all the same size.

c Y


A   B


z X


Arranged on buttons it's perfectly clear. You have 4 action buttons and 2 'extras' thrown in to make 6.


Changing them to characters from a mostly dead language simply makes a relatively easy to understand set into a totally illegible mess.


Latin letters function clarity grade: A. Aesthetics may be a B.


Greek letters function clarity grade: D. Aesthetics may be a C.


Function is far more important than form - particularly when that form breaks function.

Here's my opinion:

Latin letters function clarity grade: C. Aesthetics: D. Backwards-compatibility: A. Symbol familiarity: A.

Greek letters function clarity grade: A. Aesthetics: B. Backwards-compatibility: C. Symbol familiarity: B.

 

[Grench]

To my understanding, they're not all the same size.

c Y


A   B


z X


Arranged on buttons it's perfectly clear. You have 4 action buttons and 2 'extras' thrown in to make 6.


Changing them to characters from a mostly dead language simply makes a relatively easy to understand set into a totally illegible mess.


Latin letters function clarity grade: A. Aesthetics may be a B.


Greek letters function clarity grade: D. Aesthetics may be a C.


Function is far more important than form - particularly when that form breaks function.

Here's my opinion:

Latin letters function clarity grade: C. Aesthetics: D. Backwards-compatibility: A. Symbol familiarity: A.

Greek letters function clarity grade: A. Aesthetics: B. Backwards-compatibility: C. Symbol familiarity: B.

Using your new scale:

Latin letters function clarity grade: A. Aesthetics: B. Backwards-compatibility: A. Symbol familiarity: A.

Greek letters function clarity grade: F. Aesthetics: C. Backwards-compatibility: F. Symbol familiarity: F.

Function clarity F because there are no logical 'groups' of symbols within the set.

Aesthetics: C, but only because I'd have felt guilty giving it all Fs.

Backwards-compatibility: F because it's completely broken.

Symbol familiarity: F because they're characters from a near-dead language.  They are only well understood by academics.

 

[Kiga]

Using your new scale:

Latin letters function clarity grade: A. Aesthetics: B. Backwards-compatibility: A. Symbol familiarity: A.

Greek letters function clarity grade: F. Aesthetics: C. Backwards-compatibility: F. Symbol familiarity: F.

Function clarity F because there are no logical 'groups' of symbols within the set.

Aesthetics: C, but only because I'd have felt guilty giving it all Fs.

Backwards-compatibility: F because it's completely broken.

Symbol familiarity: F because they're characters from a near-dead language.  They are only well understood by academics.

We all know that you want:

 

[LEOXD]

Symbol familiarity: F because they're characters from a near-dead language.

I wouldn't call a language that has 12 million native speakers1 and is an official language in multiple countries a near-dead language.

 

[Natsu]

because they are geeky.

2"geeky"4me

1   Y 

A  (2)  B
2   X  (2)

1   Y 

A   2   B (God Ginrai)?
     X  

And if we are changing things anyway with Greek, arrangement shouldn't be a problem. 

Z  Y

X     B

    A C

Z  Y

X  C  B  (God Ginrai)?

    A

 

[Saber]

You'd think if someone paid over 500EUR for a device, they'd be able to tell the difference between face buttons and keyboard keys if a game properly documents the controls.

OK. How do you properly document the controls?

Have a help screen that looks like this?

A action button: rotate left

B action button: rotate right

Q keyboard key: quit

A keyboard key: apply effect

B keyboard key: bold

F keyboard key: fit to screen

X action button: zoom out

Y action button: zoom in

H keyboard key: help

X keyboard key: cut

Y keyboard key: yellow

Z keyboard key: undo

Yeah, that looks nice.

An excellent example of the poorest of documentation, which is the real issue here(and utterly ignoring the fact ED said he wouldn't put something other than Pandora labels on the face buttons due to it rupturing compatibility).

Now, if we repair that mess above we get:

A:   Rotate Left

B:   Rotate Right

X:   Zoom Out

Y:   Zoom In

H key:  Help

X key:  Cut

Y key:  Yellow

Z key:  Undo

Q key: Quit

A key:  Apply Effect

B key:  Bold

F key:  Fit to Screen

Now it looks nice and clear.

 

[Natsu]

Also, another thing about using Greek symbols is that the next name might not even be Greek. It could be name after any mythology.

 

[TrashyMG]

@Kiga, do you have anything new to contribute? stop posting the same damn thing every time someone has an argument against the Greek letters.