Action button labels, again


ZXDunny said:
_jr_ said:
OTOH designing the PYRA according to the opinions of shield fans is probably not a win either.
Click to expand...
Designing the Pyra based on the comments of a bunch of fanatical geeks that have no clue whatsoever about which they speak and have literally zero product design experience is probably not a win for anyone.


D.
Click to expand...
Isn't that the point of the Pyra? A niche device designed by and for a bunch of fanatical geeks?

If we're just going to design an overpriced Nintendo ripoff, then sure, let's just give all buttons a label drawn at random from the set {A, B, C, X, Y, Z, 1, 2, 3, L, R}. After all, why bother with button labels that make sense, if you can also make buttons that look game controller-like!

Here you go: a Pyra layout proposal especially designed for ZXDunny, SONY and SNESFAN:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/d2572f9398fe6357af177ac239b8e0b7
 
Well in that case, let's just do with this :

+     Y

    A    B

_     X

or this one (Shield/Android, PC, Xbox and DC compatible, widely used) :

+     Y

    X    B

_     A

or even this one (current Nintedo style, widely used too) :

+     X

    Y    A

_     B

or maybe go with a N64 style (because why not, heh) :

A     ^

    < C >

B     v

or do a somewhat Genesis/Mega Drive-compatible layout (it is awful in any way) :

Y     C

    B    Z

A     X

As you can see, I'm all about the + and -. I don't think roman numerals would fit to the audience, and I've come to think that neither plain arrows or Unicode keyboard functions as the main markings would be of any good. Let's just use a classic console-like layout and print PageUp, End, etc under these. This way, we'll still know what they do, but we won't lose any potential customer in the process.
 
_wb_ said:
Here you go: a Pyra layout proposal especially designed for ZXDunny, SONY and SNESFAN:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/d2572f9398fe6357af177ac239b8e0b7
Click to expand...
passes the "I don't need to google search to find the button you want me to push" test

passes the "I don't need to google search the finger gymnastics of an ALT code needed to display the character when telling other people what button to push" test

passes the "exaggerate a theoretical problem of a group of people that doesn't actually exist" test

I like it
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ZXDunny said:
Well, the way I see it (and I do understand that people - especially the basement dwellers - are going to just hate this) is that there's a DPad. On the other side of the keyboard is this dominant-looking diamond of four buttons. Now, call me bonkers but I reckon that just shouts "Gaming!" to most folks. With the Pandora we didn't get PgUp/Dn/Home/End on there because that's where those functions should be - we got them because they were available. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe they were labelled "ABXY".
Click to expand...
I'd be fine with ABXY but NSEW  is better IMHO.

Why : There are multiple systems that use a variant of ABXY, this makes it difficult to easily associate button prompts and position.

Personal experience : The game says press A and my thumb goes for the 'Nintendo A' I then remember I'm playing a PC game with an XBox controller and go for the 'Microsoft A', pretty quickly the problem disappears as the game action is associated with button position rather than label.

My guess is that most people know the cardinal points of the compass without concious thought that's why NSEW seems like a better call to me than ABXY.

      N

W        E

      S
 
I have a great idea:

We use αβγδ.

  • If someone wants to talk about these buttons, he just can type "alpha, beta, gamma, delta" instead of copying it from somewhere else like other weird symbols
  • We make it in Meta color. So if pressed with meta it actually produces the symbols αβγδ+- ⇒ good for math guys
  • instead of using Pg up / Pg down / Home / End symbols which are known by just a small number of people, we put it in letters under the buttons. Yes, it isn't backlit. And yes, if we use stickers for this to reduce costs, it will peel off after some time. But until this happens the user has already learned what the button does.
  • The two other action buttons are labled the same way. Because of the same reasons.
The sticker idea can be also used for the shoulderbuttons.

They can be placed next to the screen on the bottom edges with labels, what the shoulderbuttons do.

If they annoy the user, they can be peeled off.

How it would look like: (the stickers can be increased in size if they are too small ofc)

eiZN9Jg.png
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mr_Loon said:
My guess is that most people know the cardinal points of the compass without concious thought that's why NSEW seems like a better call to me than ABXY.
Click to expand...
I'm honestly warming up to this. Documentation can easily refer to them as either "North" or just "(N)", easily done in both ascii and verbal communication, which seems like it would solve the primary concern with using just ABXY. Provided the user has ever seen a compass, like you say (and I'd be surprised if someone didn't have at least some experience of what the cardinal directions are), then "North button" should be plenty of context to know which it is. Even without looking it should be clear that that means it is the "top" button.Unless you're in Australia. Actually, does Australia actually use a South-Up map or is that just movies making a joke?

The only downside I can think of is that it is different. People are used to ABXY, even if it's in different directions for different things.
 
Urben said:
I have a great idea:

We use αβγδ.

  • If someone wants to talk about these buttons, he just can type "alpha, beta, gamma, delta" instead of copying it from somewhere else like other weird symbols
  • We make it in Meta color. So if pressed with meta it actually produces the symbols αβγδ+- ⇒ good for math guys
  • instead of using Pg up / Pg down / Home / End symbols which are known by just a small number of people, we put it in letters under the buttons. Yes, it isn't backlit. And yes, if we use stickers for this to reduce costs, it will peel off after some time. But until this happens the user has already learned what the button does.
  • The two other action buttons are labled the same way. Because of the same reasons.
Click to expand...
And here we go again...
That works... if you happen to be familiar with the Greek alphabet... Tell someone who doesn't know it to "press Delta" and they'll have no idea what you're talking about.

- Neelix
 
Last edited by a moderator:
NSEW does seem like a pretty sane suggestion, actually.

I like it.

Better than all the possible combinations of ABXY

Better that PYRA (RAPY)

more practical than colours

Better than weird symbols nobody recogises

Alpha-beta-gamma-delta seems like a bad idea vs playstation-like greek chars
 
WizardStan said:
Unless you're in Australia. Actually, does Australia actually use a South-Up map or is that just movies making a joke?
Click to expand...
That would be a joke. :) We normally place north at the top of our maps, just like everyone else.

- Neelix
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You can also remap some of the A's to Ä and what not.  brilliant.

I liked the geeky idea of Greek letters:


Φ   Δ

 Π   Ω

Ψ   χ
but I think NSEW also has its own geekiness to it, as well as a very excellent spatial logic.  In the quick-press-button-or-you'll-die events, it's one of the layouts where I could very quickly associate things with.

 

For people who can't (or don't want to) learn the Greek alphabet, or are frightened by Greek letters, I think NSEW is quite nice.  I don't really like NW and SW for the little buttons though.  I'd prefer + and -, I think.
 
Are there some stats with how many people in first world countrys dont know what the first greek letters are?

I dont know if this is very special, but in germany they were part in lower secondary school's math classes. Atleast alpha, beta and gamma.

After all its just an idea. I guess more people know how delta looks like compared to how the ASCI symbol of delete looks like.
 
Hell... I took Greek classes in secondary school... Never had any reason to use it though, and these days I'd have to look up most of the greek letters just to identify them. (especially the lowercase versions)

- Neelix
 
Well okay then nevermind.

Maybe I can still keep up the idea of using Stickers for PageUp/Down, Home & End to solve the weird symbol problem.
 
Maybe we should label them with ASCII control codes? 

:p

Greek is going to end up with lots of people saying "a" "B" "y" and "weird S" though
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

_wb_
  • Poll
Action button labels: poll
8 9 10
Replies
182
Views
22K
WizardStan
WizardStan
Christoph.Krn
Parentheses format for button labels
2 3
Replies
50
Views
7K
rygD
rygD
_wb_
Action button labels
40 41 42
Replies
824
Views
81K
comradekingu
comradekingu
_wb_
  • Locked
  • Poll
Action button labels: poll 2
2 3 4
Replies
65
Views
9K
_wb_
_wb_
_wb_
  • Poll
Action button labels: poll 3 (final poll?)
9 10 11
Replies
203
Views
20K
Saber
Saber
Back
Top