Unofficial Keyboard Layouts


I think it's better to get rid of dedicated ctrl and alt keys.
That is no problem, the problem is the position of the ctrl and alt key if you don’t want to use L1/R1. We could just as well eliminate the start / select button.

Since most people are thumb typers, and that's what the keyboard is optimized for
Is that a fact or an assumption? I am thumb typing too when I have the P1 in my hands and cannot support it on a desk. When I have it lying on my desk, I prefer to type with two hands - it is faster. 

In that case the position of the ctlr and alt key is a bit awkward. Not deal-breaking - I can totally live with the P1 keyboard - but having the alt and ctrl button on the lower row is more intuitive and you don't block the sight on your keyboard if you need to press them.

I am probably affected more than other users, because I am using emacs a lot lately and as you probably know the alt and ctrl keys are pretty essential for emacs users :)
 
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I think the most important thing is that there are enough keys. Then everyone can map them however they want.

Not strictly keyboard layout related, but I would like to be able to exchange the actual physical keys with each other, so it would be nice if they were individual parts instead of one big part. Has anyone tried cutting the Pandora keys apart? Does this work?
 
Has anyone tried cutting the Pandora keys apart?
As far as I know:

Askarus did that with his mod.

He exchanged the Y and the Z key if I remember right

(there is a link for his mod on the first page of this thread)

I m not sure how he did that tho ^^
 
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I think the most important thing is that there are enough keys. Then everyone can map them however they want.
The quality of the keys is even more important than that imo. It it very annoying to have keys that keep on sticking under the surface because the keys are too flat or have a bad construction. There are quite a few small keyboards that have that issue.

P1 keyboard might not have the best 'feel', but keys respond very well - even after a few years of use.  
 
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P1 keyboard might not have the best 'feel', but keys respond very well - even after a few years of use.

I agree, I've seen no sign of wear or fading on the keyboard keys at all in the ~4 years I've had a Pandora by my side.
 
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I'm exploring the idea of placing a keypad between the nubs. It probably won't happen, but it is an interesting exercise nevertheless (because you can never have too many buttons :) ).

Gaming "view"

[Pyr] [Srt] [Sel] [Men] [ 1 ] [ 2 ] [ 3 ] [ ; ] [ ' ] [ / ] [ BS]
^ Joystick1 [ 4 ] [ 5 ] [ 6 ] Joystick2 ( Y )
< + > (.) [ 7 ] [ 8 ] [ 9 ] (.) ( A ) ( B )
V [ 0 ] [Ins] [Del] ( X )
[TAB] [ q ] [ w ] [ e ] [ r ] [ t ] [ y ] [ u ] [ i ] [ o ] [ p ] [SPC]
[Sft] [ a ] [ s ] [ d ] [ f ] [ g ] [ h ] [ j ] [ k ] [ l ] [RET]
[Ctr] [Alt] [ z ] [ x ] [ c ] [ v ] [ b ] [ n ] [ m ] [ , ] [ . ] [ Fn]
  • Pyr: Pyra button - pyra menu overlay
  • Srt: Start
  • Sel: Select
  • Men: Menu - default emulator menu button
Normal press
Code:
  [Pyr] [ ~ ] [ - ] [ = ] [ 1 ] [ 2 ] [ 3 ] [ ; ] [ ' ] [ / ] [ BS]
       Up        Mouse    [ 4 ] [ 5 ] [ 6 ]    Mouse       (PUp)
  Left + Right    (.)     [ 7 ] [ 8 ] [ 9 ]     (.)    (Hom)   (End)
     Down        Motion   [ 0 ] [Ins] [Del]   Buttons      (PDn)
[TAB] [ q ] [ w ] [ e ] [ r ] [ t ] [ y ] [ u ] [ i ] [ o ] [ p ] [SPC]
   [Sft] [ a ] [ s ] [ d ] [ f ] [ g ] [ h ] [ j ] [ k ] [ l ] [RET]
[Ctr] [Alt] [ z ] [ x ] [ c ] [ v ] [ b ] [ n ] [ m ] [ , ] [ . ] [ Fn]
Legend:- Ctr: Left Ctrl, Alt: Left Alt, Sft: Left Shift, BS: backspace, SPC: space, RET: return

Should buttons:

L1: Right Ctrl, L2: AltGr, R2: Right Shift, R1: Right Alt

Mouse Motion and Mouse Buttons function as Pandora 1.

There should be an option to set L1 = left mouse and R1 = right mouse as well. These replace Right Ctrl and Right Alt as these modifiers are less used in regular text input and modifier heavy applications typically use the mouse less making this a fair trade-off. In either configuration all of those buttons are available anyway.

Shifted press

Code:
  [Pyr] [ ` ] [ = ] [ + ] [ ! ] [ @ ] [ # ] [ : ] [ " ] [ ? ] [ BS]
       Up        Mouse    [ $ ] [ % ] [ ^ ]    Mouse       (PUp)
   Left + Right   (.)     [ & ] [ * ] [ ( ]     (.)    (Hom)   (End)
       Down      Motion   [ ) ] [Ins] [Del]   Buttons      (PDn)
[TAB] [ Q ] [ W ] [ E ] [ R ] [ T ] [ Y ] [ U ] [ I ] [ O ] [ P ] [SPC]
   [Sft] [ A ] [ S ] [ D ] [ F ] [ G ] [ H ] [ J ] [ K ] [ L ] [RET]
[Ctr][Alt][ Z ] [ X ] [ C ] [ V ] [ B ] [ N ] [ M ] [ < ] [ > ] [ Fn]
Fn-press
Code:
  [Pyr] [Prn] [NLk] [Pau] [F1 ] [F2 ] [F3 ] [Wfi] [Br-] [Br+] [ BS]
       Up        Mouse    [F4 ] [F5 ] [F6 ]    Mouse       ( Y )
   Left + Right   (.)     [F7 ] [F8 ] [F9 ]     (.)    ( A )   ( B )
       Down      Motion   [F10] [F11] [F12]   Buttons      ( X )
[TAB] [ESC] [ [ ] [ { ] [ ] ] [ } ] [ y ] [ u ] [ i ] [ o ] [ p ] [SPC]
   [Clk] [ | ] [ \ ] [ d ] [ f ] [ g ] [ h ] [ j ] [ k ] [ l ] [RET]
[Ctr] [Alt] [ z ] [ x ] [ c ] [ v ] [ b ] [ n ] [ m ] [ , ] [ . ] [FnL]
  • Wfi: Wifi - enable/disable radio hardware
  • Br-: Brightness Down
  • Br+: Up
  • Pyr: Pyra button - System-wide pyra menu (e.g. kill-apps, etc...)
  • Prn: Print Screen - bound to screenshot app
  • Pau: Pause key - any better candidates?
  • NLk: Num lock - switches keycodes to numeric pad version for 0-9 / * - + . Enter Ins Del
  • Home End PageUp PageDown Left Right Up Down
For most applications this has zero effect, but for those that can bind other actions to it they can bind different effects.
 
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I like the idea - but I would flip the numerics to be like a 10key on a computer keyboard or calculator instead of the phone keypad as they are in the above.
 
I like the idea - but I would flip the numerics to be like a 10key on a computer keyboard or calculator instead of the phone keypad as they are in the above.
I know what you mean, but it becomes a bit weird with the shifted keys (parenthesis far apart) and especially the Fn+number combinations. I.e.:
F07 F08 F09
F04 F05 F06
F01 F02 F03
F10 F11 F12
Breaking the Fn+i = Fi relation (e.g. Mapping F1 to Fn+0, F4 to Fn+1, etc...) is also weird.
<edit>

This could work. Changes:

  • Moved top-row onto keypad in computer ordering (but moved the 0 to the top row).
  • Swapped the Ins / Del keys and -/= keys.This makes the _ and + keys more accessible as they are used more often in combination with shift than ins and del are.
Keypad basically contains the two rows above the qwerty row except for ESC tilde and backspace.
Gaming "view"

Code:
  [Pyr] [Srt] [Sel] [Men] [ 0 ] [ - ] [ = ] [ ; ] [ ' ] [ / ] [ BS]
       ^       Joystick1  [ 7 ] [ 8 ] [ 9 ]  Joystick2     ( Y )
     < + >        (.)     [ 4 ] [ 5 ] [ 6 ]     (.)    ( A )   ( B )
       V                  [ 1 ] [ 2 ] [ 3 ]                ( X )
[TAB] [ q ] [ w ] [ e ] [ r ] [ t ] [ y ] [ u ] [ i ] [ o ] [ p ] [SPC]
    [Sft][ a ] [ s ] [ d ] [ f ] [ g ] [ h ] [ j ] [ k ] [ l ] [RET]
[Ctr] [Alt] [ z ] [ x ] [ c ] [ v ] [ b ] [ n ] [ m ] [ , ] [ . ] [ Fn]
Normal

Code:
  [Pyr] [ ~ ] [Ins] [Del] [ 0 ] [ - ] [ = ] [ ; ] [ ' ] [ / ] [ BS]
       Up        Mouse    [ 7 ] [ 8 ] [ 9 ]    Mouse       (PUp)
  Left + Right    (.)     [ 4 ] [ 5 ] [ 6 ]     (.)    (Hom)   (End)
     Down        Motion   [ 1 ] [ 2 ] [ 3 ]   Buttons      (PDn)
[TAB] [ q ] [ w ] [ e ] [ r ] [ t ] [ y ] [ u ] [ i ] [ o ] [ p ] [SPC]
    [Sft][ a ] [ s ] [ d ] [ f ] [ g ] [ h ] [ j ] [ k ] [ l ] [RET]
[Ctr] [Alt] [ z ] [ x ] [ c ] [ v ] [ b ] [ n ] [ m ] [ , ] [ . ] [ Fn]
Shifted

Code:
  [Pyr] [ ` ] [Ins] [Del] [ ) ] [ _ ] [ + ] [ : ] [ " ] [ ? ] [ BS]
       Up        Mouse    [ & ] [ * ] [ ( ]    Mouse       (PUp)
   Left + Right   (.)     [ $ ] [ % ] [ ^ ]     (.)    (Hom)   (End)
       Down      Motion   [ ! ] [ @ ] [ # ]   Buttons      (PDn)
[TAB] [ Q ] [ W ] [ E ] [ R ] [ T ] [ Y ] [ U ] [ I ] [ O ] [ P ] [SPC]
   [Sft] [ A ] [ S ] [ D ] [ F ] [ G ] [ H ] [ J ] [ K ] [ L ] [RET]
[Ctr][Alt][ Z ] [ X ] [ C ] [ V ] [ B ] [ N ] [ M ] [ < ] [ > ] [ Fn]
Fn-ed

Code:
  [Pyr] [Prn] [NLk] [Pau] [F10] [F11] [F12] [Wfi] [Br-] [Br+] [ BS]
       Up        Mouse    [F07] [F08] [F09]    Mouse       ( Y )
   Left + Right   (.)     [F04] [F05] [F06]     (.)    ( A )   ( B )
       Down      Motion   [F01] [F02] [F03]   Buttons      ( X )
[TAB] [ESC] [ [ ] [ { ] [ ] ] [ } ] [ y ] [ u ] [ i ] [ o ] [ p ] [SPC]
   [Clk] [ | ] [ \ ] [ d ] [ f ] [ g ] [ h ] [ j ] [ k ] [ l ] [RET]
[Ctr] [Alt] [ z ] [ x ] [ c ] [ v ] [ b ] [ n ] [ m ] [ , ] [ . ] [FnL]
 
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The bottom corners of the keyboard are hard to get to with thumb-typing, so I'm putting the less useful keys there.
 
The bottom corners of the keyboard are hard to get to with thumb-typing, so I'm putting the less useful keys there.
Ok, thanks. I suppose we have a very different keyboard usage. Alt is one of my most used keys :D
 
How about something like:

Gaming "view"


Same as 'Normal' since there isn't really a shift-lock to gaming capacity.

Normal


[SPEAKR] [Esc] [Sel] [Men] [ 7 ] [ 8 ] [ 9 ] [Pyr] [Srt] [ BS] [SPEAKR]
^ Joystick [ 4 ] [ 5 ] [ 6 ] Joystick Y
< + > [--..--] [ 1 ] [ 2 ] [ 3 ] [--..--] A + B
V Joystick [ * ] [ 0 ] [ + ] Joystick X
[ q ] [ w ] [ e ] [ r ] [ t ] [ y ] [ u ] [ i ] [ o ] [ p ]
[Sft][ a ] [ s ] [ d ] [ f ] [ g ] [ h ] [ j ] [ k ] [ l ] [RET]
[Ctr] [Alt] [ z ] [ x ] [ c ] [ v ] [ b ] [ n ] [ m ] [ . ] [Spc] [ Fn]

Shifted


[SPEAKR] [Esc] [Sel] [Men] [ { ] [ _ ] [ } ] [Pyr] [Srt] [Del] [SPEAKR]
[^] Joystick [ [ ] [ | ] [ ] ] Joystick ~
[<]+[>] [--..--] [ ( ] [ = ] [ ) ] [--..--] " + '
? Joystick [ / ] [ @ ] [ - ] Joystick \
[ Q ] [ W ] [ E ] [ R ] [ T ] [ Y ] [ U ] [ I ] [ O ] [ P ]
[Sft][ A ] [ S ] [ D ] [ F ] [ G ] [ H ] [ J ] [ K ] [ L ] [RET]
[Ctr] [Alt] [ Z ] [ X ] [ C ] [ V ] [ B ] [ N ] [ M ] [ , ] [Tab] [FLK]


Fn-ed

Code:
[SPEAKR] [Esc] [Sel] [Men] [F01] [F02] [F03] [Pyr] [Srt] [ BS] [SPEAKR]
    !      Joystick        [F04] [F05] [F06]        Joystick      :
  & + #    [--..--]        [F07] [F08] [F09]        [--..--] [Ins]+ `
    %      Joystick        [F10] [F11] [F12]        Joystick      ; 
      [ Ç ] [ ä ] [ é ] [ ö ] [ Ö ] [ ü ] [ Ü ] [ ß ] [ « ] [ » ] 
   [SLK][ Ä ] [ ï ] [ î ] [ ì ] [ Æ ] [ ú ] [ É ] [ é ] [ í ] [RET]
[Ctr] [Alt] [ $ ] [ € ] [ £ ] [ ¥ ] [ ñ ] [ Ñ ] [ ¿ ] [ º ] [Spc] [ Fn]
 
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Why are you wasting space by having the same character with different case on the fn map?

Also, having symbols on the dpad and facebuttons is a *really* terrible idea. Since a shoulder button is mapped to shift, imagine the chaos when trying to play a game...
 
Indeed. Fn-Shift-<key> is also a valid combination. As is Fn-Alt and Fn-Ctrl if you really really need them.
 
A numeric keypad between the nubs is a really interesting idea!

I wonder if it is possible to fit those two extra horizontal keys between the nubs without making the device wider.
 
Has anyone tried cutting the Pandora keys apart?
As far as I know:

Askarus did that with his mod.

He exchanged the Y and the Z key if I remember right

(there is a link for his mod on the first page of this thread)

I m not sure how he did that tho ^^
Has anyone tried cutting the Pandora keys apart?
As far as I know:

Askarus did that with his mod.

He exchanged the Y and the Z key if I remember right

(there is a link for his mod on the first page of this thread)

I m not sure how he did that tho ^^
Easiest thing in the world.

get 2-3 spare keyboard.

Then t hake a razor blade and cut the buttons.

Swap them and that's it.

No glue.

Then go into /home/.pndXmodmap and search for "X" and "Z" and swap the X with Z and the Z with X.

Then search for "slash" and "underscore" and swap them as well (the blue buttons).

:)
 
Easiest thing in the world.

get 2-3 spare keyboard.

Then t hake a razor blade and cut the buttons.

Swap them and that's it.

No glue.

Then go into /home/.pndXmodmap and search for "X" and "Z" and swap the X with Z and the Z with X.

Then search for "slash" and "underscore" and swap them as well (the blue buttons).
Life must be hard for you if that's the easiest thing in the world :p
 
Why are you wasting space by having the same character with different case on the fn map?

Also, having symbols on the dpad and facebuttons is a *really* terrible idea. Since a shoulder button is mapped to shift, imagine the chaos when trying to play a game...
The characters on the fn map are intended to 'fill out' the international keyboard a bit.  There is no fn-shift on this definition as that combination is reserved for shift/caps-lock.  Which, is, as I see now, a flaw in the design.  I need to figure out something else to use as a fn-lock and shift-lock meta-key.

Note - in the versions I posted up the shoulder buttons are not defined.  That was intentional.  Those should be software mapped by the program that is running.  That way they can be used as volume & track selection in audio players, etc...  I have purposely NOT mapped shift or ctrl or any other meta-key to the shoulder buttons.

A quick note on shoulder buttons - please don't make them the physical corners of the device.  That was a bad solution on the Pandora, lets not repeat that.  Make them real buttons on a simple 2-contact set vertical circuit board for each side.  No more flapping case corners, no more stuck shoulder buttons.  Use real buttons like the game pad.  Let them come through holes in the solid back of the case.  Actual, real, buttons.

Indeed. Fn-Shift-<key> is also a valid combination. As is Fn-Alt and Fn-Ctrl if you really really need them.
No, it isn't.  At least not on the keyboards I presented above.  Fn-Shift doesn't exist per say.  

Fn-SLK is intended as shift/caps lock.

Sft-FLK similarly will lock the keyboard in function mode.

So, no, you can't do fn-shift-key.  You can do any combination of alt, ctrl, shift on any button on the set though.  Hmmm...  What it needs is another way to do fn-lock and shift-lock.

Notice that alt, ctrl and shift are closely nested in a triangle.  That is intentional so that you can thumb-mash any combination of them.

A numeric keypad between the nubs is a really interesting idea!

I wonder if it is possible to fit those two extra horizontal keys between the nubs without making the device wider.
Consider the 16:9 screen dimensions on a 5" screen.

Most 16:9 screens that I have seen require relatively thick bezels on the short ends - add 5-10mm to each side for that.  Maybe even more on one side than the other depending on the screen requirements.

No matter how many polls, votes or conversations we have around dimensions, the screen and it's required bezel widths will dictate the minimum width and depth.

My best estimation is that the Pyra is going to be roughly 150-155mm wide compared to the Pandora's 140mm.

Nothing says that the 10 keys between the nubs have to be the same size as the rest of the keys.

Nothing says that the keys (any) have to be the same XY dimensions on the Pyra as they were on the Pandora.

Solving the fn-shift metakey issue...

How does everyone feel about using something like:

sft+alt+ctrl = sftlock  <- may have some issues as this is a possible combination on a DOS keyboard.

fn+alt+ctrl+sft = sftlock <- possible combination using button-mashing IF the keyboard can do a 4 button press.

fn+alt+ctrl = fnlock

fn+sft+alt = mode 4 keyboard map?

fn+alt+ctrl = mode 5 keyboard map?

fn+pyr = back to default map -now-?

What kinds of and how many meta-fn-shift-key combinations do we need?
 
Easiest thing in the world. get 2-3 spare keyboard. Then t hake a razor blade and cut the buttons. Swap them and that's it. No glue. Then go into /home/.pndXmodmap and search for "X" and "Z" and swap the X with Z and the Z with X. Then search for "slash" and "underscore" and swap them as well (the blue buttons). :)
Ah well... no biggie then =D just slicing and dicing the keymat into pieces...

I should have kept my old one which already had an problem with the dpad.

Thank you for info askarus =)

EDIT :

This picture might be in use for someone to simply visualize his ideas about the keyboardlayout discussed here

If you want me to I can generate a version with more or less buttons. ^^

http://imageshack.us/a/img801/3308/jbvy.png
 
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