Unofficial Keyboard Layouts


That said, I reckon having silk screen printing indicating what buttons do what would make the Pandora a little more newbie friendly. COULD, please.
Yes, but if we silkscreen on the case, then that enforces the default keymaps even more. Plus, there's such a thing as too much text. I don't know if I want to see all this extra text around my action buttons. 

I agree Binky and besides the Spacebar is surely one of the most used keys, so shrinking it down to a single portion, which gains us one more button, doesn't seem like a good idea unless it's moved to an occupied edge spot.
Why can't you just map both buttons to space so if you hit either one you get a space? You and Binky get a trivial compromise, and everyone else gets an extra button, and the flexibility to put the space button wherever they want it.
I know that sounds logical. But let me ask you this: What if the keyboard you use with your computer had 6 space keys instead of one spacebar? It would be frustrating and harder to use, wouldn't it?

-God Ginrai
 
Updated the first post.

I hope it satisfies most of the requirements from everyone. :)
 
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That said, I reckon having silk screen printing indicating what buttons do what would make the Pandora a little more newbie friendly. COULD, please.
Yes, but if we silkscreen on the case, then that enforces the default keymaps even more. Plus, there's such a thing as too much text. I don't know if I want to see all this extra text around my action buttons.
Originally, the Pandora was supposed to have blue & white silk screened labels for all of the non-qwerty keys. Craig was lamenting how expensive it was to print those on the cases and how it was causing months of delay and several of us told him to just skip the labels.

I'm not opposed to printing labels on the case from an aesthetics perspective. But be aware that shipping to the printer, unpackaging, mounting each plastic case base into a screen printing machine, printing, drying, re-packaging, shipping to the device assembler when all combined winds up being a significant expense. Then 6 months into use, half of the symbols printed will be only half-readable as they get worn and scratched off. They're just paint after all.

It might actually be more cost effective to simply put indented labels into the mold.
 
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That said, I reckon having silk screen printing indicating what buttons do what would make the Pandora a little more newbie friendly. COULD, please.
Yes, but if we silkscreen on the case, then that enforces the default keymaps even more. Plus, there's such a thing as too much text. I don't know if I want to see all this extra text around my action buttons.
Originally, the Pandora was supposed to have blue & white silk screened labels for all of the non-qwerty keys. Craig was lamenting how expensive it was to print those on the cases and how it was causing months of delay and several of us told him to just skip the labels.

I'm not opposed to printing labels on the case from an aesthetics perspective. But be aware that shipping to the printer, unpackaging, mounting each plastic case base into a screen printing machine, printing, drying, re-packaging, shipping to the device assembler when all combined winds up being a significant expense. Then 6 months into use, half of the symbols printed will be only half-readable as they get worn and scratched off. They're just paint after all.

It might actually be more cost effective to simply put indented labels into the mold.
I don't remember the silkscreen that we were going to have involving labels for the gaming controls.

I don't mind silkscreen for things that are unlikely to change, (WiFi indicator, etc.) however I don't want all that text around my action buttons. As for indentions, I dislike that idea even more. That is more permanent than the text, and changes the feel of the device. The surface around the gaming controls should be flat so that it isn't bothersome while gaming.

-God Ginrai
 
 
I agree Binky and besides the Spacebar is surely one of the most used keys, so shrinking it down to a single portion, which gains us one more button, doesn't seem like a good idea unless it's moved to an occupied edge spot.
Why can't you just map both buttons to space so if you hit either one you get a space? You and Binky get a trivial compromise, and everyone else gets an extra button, and the flexibility to put the space button wherever they want it.
I know that sounds logical. But let me ask you this: What if the keyboard you use with your computer had 6 space keys instead of one spacebar? It would be frustrating and harder to use, wouldn't it?
Yes, it would be worse. But not much. With a desktop keyboard you can buy any keyboard you want and you have lots of choice, so there is absolutely no reason to compromise on this.

But with a Pandora you have only one version which needs to fit everyone, so it makes a lot more sense to make some compromises.

"Works not at all for p people unless they completely change their typing style." is more important than "Works a little better for 1-p people unless they are okay with adjusting a little in which case it would be even less than a 'little'." if we have a p which isn't really tiny, and I think it p isn't tiny. I guess it might be 0.2 or even bigger.
 
I agree Binky and besides the Spacebar is surely one of the most used keys, so shrinking it down to a single portion, which gains us one more button, doesn't seem like a good idea unless it's moved to an occupied edge spot.
Why can't you just map both buttons to space so if you hit either one you get a space? You and Binky get a trivial compromise, and everyone else gets an extra button, and the flexibility to put the space button wherever they want it.
I know that sounds logical. But let me ask you this: What if the keyboard you use with your computer had 6 space keys instead of one spacebar? It would be frustrating and harder to use, wouldn't it?
Yes, it would be worse. But not much. With a desktop keyboard you can buy any keyboard you want and you have lots of choice, so there is absolutely no reason to compromise on this.But with a Pandora you have only one version which needs to fit everyone, so it makes a lot more sense to make some compromises.

"Works not at all for p people unless they completely change their typing style." is more important than "Works a little better for 1-p people unless they are okay with adjusting a little in which case it would be even less than a 'little'." if we have a p which isn't really tiny, and I think it p isn't tiny. I guess it might be 0.2 or even bigger.
Typing style honestly doesn't even matter. You type completely differently with your thumbs than on a computer keyboard. The only reason people would want Dvorak on a device like this is because it is familiar, not because of any sort of typing style. Mobile device keyboards are so different from each other that you can't have a true typing style like you do on a standard keyboard.

Plus, if we think about backwards-compatibility, making the space smaller would ruin a lot of emulators and maybe even some games that use it as a big menu button. The idea of these menus is you hit it quickly to pause the action. However, if the button is smaller and therefore harder to hit with precision, it becomes a problem.

-God Ginrai
 
I guess we have different definitions of typing style. In my definitions this includes everything about your typing which would need training to change - that is also dvorak/qwerty etc.

I think after only a little time to adjust you hit a normal size space key as fast as a double wide one - after you have adjusted to the layout you also hit exactly the center of a wider space bar (with a space bar which isn't that big anyway. Obviously doesn't apply to desktop sized keyboards).

I think we shouldn't just cater to the needs of people with a serious lack in fine motor skills (hard to translate. The ability to move fast and precise).
 
I think after only a little time to adjust you hit a normal size space key as fast as a double wide one - after you have adjusted to the layout you also hit exactly the center of a wider space bar (with a space bar which isn't that big anyway. Obviously doesn't apply to desktop sized keyboards).
It's not a matter of speed, it's a matter of accuracy. While playing games, your thumb will be on the ABXY buttons. When you quickly move off of it to hit the spacebar, you will be doing something already out of the ordinary to hit the space par from that position. And since it is smaller, it would be more likely to be missed. And since it is trapped in a mindfield of other keys, it's more likely your miss will also result in unwanted keystrokes.

For example: On a normal keyboard I have confidence in my ability to use my numpad, but I don't believe I'll be able to hit the 6 key on my numpad moving my hand from my mouse to my numpad and back quickly. Spacebar, I could do, since it is bigger.

-God Ginrai
 
... conveniently removing the last sentence of my post from the quote, which would have made clear that I'm talking about "fast and precise". Speed and accuracy are more or less inversely proportional to each other, their product being how good you are (in respect to a certain movement). Lets call it p. So let me rephrase:

I think after only a little time to adjust you hit a normal size space key as good (i.e. same p) as a double wide one - after you have adjusted to the layout you also hit exactly the center of a wider space bar (with a space bar which isn't that big anyway. Obviously doesn't apply to desktop sized keyboards).
Sure I might make mistakes and express myself slightly unclearly because I don't speak English that well (that's also why I resort to maths even more often in English than in my native language), but I think you aren't even trying. That's also what I thought in that other thread where I'm not going to answer again because it's/you're just not worth the effort.
 
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... conveniently removing the last sentence of my post from the quote, which would have made clear that I'm talking about "fast and precise".
Honestly, I left your last sentence out because it reads as: "anyone who can't do this is incompetent". If you want to chalk that up to English not being your native language, that's fine. But do not chastise me for leaving out what reads as an insult.

-God Ginrai
 
... conveniently removing the last sentence of my post from the quote, which would have made clear that I'm talking about "fast and precise".
Honestly, I left your last sentence out because it reads as: "anyone who can't do this is incompetent". If you want to chalk that up to English not being your native language, that's fine. But do not chastise me for leaving out what reads as an insult.

-God Ginrai
Yes, it can be taken as an insult. I'm not denying that. I knew that when I wrote it, though it wasn't meant to be one (I wasn't trying to be nice either, just neutral, writing what I think is fact). But I wouldn't use "incompetent", at least in my language that word has a slightly different meaning, it's more in the direction of "didn't spend the effort to learn", but what I meant is "can't learn".

It's still valid up to a certain point, no matter whether it offends you.

I think it's a very small group which actually can't learn to hit a certain key of the size of the Pandora's standard (non space) keys fast and precisely. Mostly people are just lazy and want to keep everything the way they know it, no matter whether another way would be better (that's actually not just true for banal stuff like this, this is a basic human tendency which can be found practically everywhere).
 
I've been sceptical about giving tab its own key. But I've runned a program to record how often I press keys, and...


A total of 37419 keys were pressed
2098 minutes has passed
Most used keys:
Key "LALT" was pressed 4185 times (11.184157%)
Key "Tab" was pressed 3547 times (9.479142%)
Key "SPACE" was pressed 1914 times (5.115048%)
Key "1" was pressed 1476 times (3.944520%)
Key "2" was pressed 1436 times (3.837623%)
I'll agree to tab needing to be easy to press :p
 
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Those kind of statistics are pretty useful to decide on priorities. Are there any such statistics available averaged over several people and language groups?
 
That's a nice piece of code.


I'd like to have Tab as a single press key
 
That's a nice piece of code.

I'd like to have Tab as a single press key
I'm fine with Tab as a single press key. At the same time, I didn't find the Fn+Space combo to be too bad. I was able to roll my thumb on it like it was one button press.

-God Ginrai
 
I was able to roll my thumb on it like it was one button press.
Agreed. Fn-space just feels so intuitive as well, I might be inclined to say that I don't want a dedicated tab button, and I use tab completion all the time.Not that I wouldn't like or use a dedicated tab button, but given the choice between a dedicated button, vs using fn-space and using that button for pretty much anything else, I would choose fn-space and anything-but-tab button.
 
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