Unofficial Keyboard Layouts

[Grench]

Finger width and restricted space still means the number of keys is going to be a compromise, 105 keys isnt going to fit any which way its done.

I favour the keys that are in use the most.  A-Z+øæå space . , enter shift ctrl and alt. If that isnt good the typing experience for just about everyone is going to suffer accordingly.

The Pyra will be at most 150-160mm wide. It is handheld, not desktop oriented. As with the Pandora, it will still be a thumb-oriented keyboard.

As for the electrical side of things any option is fine. 

Buckling spring/spring/ switches are rated at 50million+, hall effect sensors to go beyond that, but its still better than domes of any kind. 5 mill guaranteed cycles is the top end for something that will fit. (that i could find)

I'm not sure if I care that it's only rated at 5 million cycles. A rubber dome keymat like the one in the Pandora is <$10 and swaps out easily. 10 minutes and a screwdriver and you have a whole new keyboard.

Its about typespeed and feel, and as such, maybe a luxury, but then again an onscreen keyboard is the extension of skimping on input devices.

Typespeed and feel? On a handheld device?
The Pandora's, and by extension the Pyra's PRIMARY usage case is handheld. Not desktop.

Once you set it on a desktop and make an attempt at anything resembling touch typing, it is a usage case exception. If your intention is to hammer out a novel on the device, get a USB keyboard and plug it in.

For the designed purpose, handheld on the go game playing and moderate thumb typing, the hard capped rubber dome keyboard from the Pandora was spot on.

 

[comradekingu]

Yes on a handheld, a handheld that isnt taking into account human hands isnt much of a handheld. There are good options and there are bad ones, intended for the space constraint. Opting for a worse one just because there is a battery attached doesn't make sense.

5Million is a whole lot, you find worse options rated at 5k and less.

Unless you factor in space that hasnt been added yet,( and is unlikely to, given the battery width and display quotations), +1 number of keys is still detrimental to a number of keys more easily used for typing.

Since there arent 105 keys on the board, obviously that is a consideration already accounted for, but i think the threshold is at a number of keys that everyone has use for, within the space good keys require.

 

[Grench]

Yes on a handheld, a handheld that isnt taking into account human hands isnt much of a handheld. There are good options and there are bad ones, intended for the space constraint. Opting for a worse one just because there is a battery attached doesn't make sense.

Normal human hands have 5 digits. On a desktop keyboard they're all used (if you're doing it right).

This is a hand-held thumbs-type device. Six of the 10 fingers are supporting the device in the air. Two fingers are stabilizing it from the back side where the trigger buttons are. The ONLY digits to be concerned with actually using this keyboard are the thumbs.

It is a thumb keyboard. Thumbs are fine with collapsing domes. Spending 10 times more money on a feature to satisfy a non-standard usage case is asinine.

 

[Granitehead]

Actually a better keyboard would also help while thumb typing, something which you seem to forget all the time.

In my opinions you are just making arguments up which don't really fit at all. How is 'better keyboard -> you must be touch typing' a logical conclusion?

I just dislike the current keyboard no matter which fingers I use to type. I've written a long post about why I don't like it too, in an other keyboard thread I think, but I don't remember someone bothering to comment.

 

[b_o_b]

The Pyra will be at most 150-160mm wide. It is handheld, not desktop oriented. As with the Pandora, it will still be a thumb-oriented keyboard.

 

The Pandora's, and by extension the Pyra's PRIMARY usage case is handheld. Not desktop.

Once you set it on a desktop and make an attempt at anything resembling touch typing, it is a usage case exception. If your intention is to hammer out a novel on the device, get a USB keyboard and plug it in.

Based on the amount of desktop and productivity releases I have to disagree the Pandora is just a handheld. At least my use of the Pandora is currently mainly desktop - productivity oriented. Maybe I am the exception, but the Pandora is sold as a - and I quote - 'complete pocketable Mini-Linux-PC'.

I have had a chat a few days ago on IRC with an emacs user - a guy who wrote extensions for emacs - who was interested in the Pandora before but didn't buy it because of the awkward keyboard. 

This might be just 'anecdotal evidence' but I think there is a demand for a good and as standard as possible keyboard.

Also keep in mind not everyone is thumb typing. When I am typing the pandora lies on my desk and I type with 4 fingers. I have seen comments from users that don't thumb type as well. It is not that uncommon.

I would love to see a Pyra with a decent keyboard and an optional docking station.

 

[Binky]

the Pyra's PRIMARY usage case is handheld

my use of the Pandora is currently mainly desktop

I think we have two conflicting definitions of 'desktop' here.

1. A device used why on the surface of a desk
2. A device with applications commonly associated with (Screen+keyboard+mouse) computing setups in offices

--

Personally, I primarily use my pandora while holding it in my hands, but running 'desktop' software.

 

[b_o_b]

I think we have two conflicting definitions of 'desktop' here.

Desktop is indeed a widely used term. Not sure if what I consider desktop is correct but I mean: running a DE - desktop environment - on my Pandora and currently using mainly desktop/productivity software - so no games. And bonus - it is also placed on a desk. So I consider my use kinda sorta desktop-ish    

 

[Caine]

Based on the amount of desktop and productivity releases I have to disagree the Pandora is just a handheld. At least my use of the Pandora is currently mainly desktop - productivity oriented. Maybe I am the exception, but the Pandora is sold as a - and I quote - 'complete pocketable Mini-Linux-PC'.

My primairy use-case for the Pandora is pocketable Emacs. The games are an awesome bonus.

 

[Saber]

Added a second(improbable?) six action button Pyra layout to the first post. B)

Setup like this. Link

We'd have to displace or remove the right nub.  :mellow:  

FYI, I'll be uploading a third(unusual) Pyra layout tomorrow. 

 

[Natsu]

We'd have to displace or remove the right nub.  :mellow:

FYI, I'll be uploading a third(unusual) Pyra layout tomorrow. 

Not really. The buttons aren't as big. You may have to move the buttons a bit.

 

[_wb_]

Here's a layout with 7 action buttons (the 7th one, Ins, is optional, it can be removed with Ins at Fn+Del)

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/4116952e6e58607f0397db8cd44668a0

Not sure about how to make 3 buttons for Ctrl and Alt work -- normally there is only a left and right one, and we already need those for Start/Select and the shoulder buttons.

 

[comradekingu]

I dont see why either definition of desktop makes it easier to forego good switches. The ones i suggested use rubber domes, which i guess grench overlooked. I dont understand how thumbs are somehow less perceptible to a bad typing experience.

Edit: I figured out at lest to the extent of showing, how the layout editor works

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/3f40a1cef45bffdf39c4786909dd0742

 

[Tenka]

I believe that if the leading reason six face buttons are wanted is to more comfortably emulate systems with six face buttons, then they should definitely be in the same orientation that every one of those systems had them in, or it defeats the purpose of comfortably playing those games the same way.

Whoops, too many threads at once.  This post was meant for another.

 

[Saber]

Added a third and unconventional six button layout to the first post.

 

[levi]

Edit: I figured out at lest to the extent of showing, how the layout editor works

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/3f40a1cef45bffdf39c4786909dd0742

What is 'QQ'? And 'Rage', 'Lel'?

 

[Natsu]

Added a third and unconventional six button layout to the first post.

I like it.

 

[comradekingu]

Rage drops your internet connection, hit QQ to forfeit or do the lel macro.

Did some improvements upon feedback

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/57abd8dda49db9c72a449042931d0fc8    

And one from urjaman

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/4d3002b913fc3032f7fb23241fc0db1d

The typewriter layout http://www.mayowynnebaxter.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Old-Typewriter.jpg  is my favourite

A 11 wide ASDF row and op+1  And everything around catered to make those work.

 

[_wb_]

Here's a layout:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/d61aad10e1a89de33e5224f26e9cafb0

The keys have the same width as the Pandora keys. All symbols from a normal US keyboard and a normal German keyboard are present (with the exception of the accent keys for acute, grave and circumflex). It has two shift buttons -- I personally don't use either of those (I prefer the shoulder buttons), but some people, including ED, want to have a shift button on the right too.

 

[Granitehead]

I still think we should get rid of that double wide space button. Keep it possible to remap everything.

The edges (two times 1/2 empty, two times 3/2 wide buttons) are okay if you absolutely can't have 1/2 buttons, but I still think 1/2 buttons would be better use of the space.

 

[Natsu]

Here's a layout:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/d61aad10e1a89de33e5224f26e9cafb0

The keys have the same width as the Pandora keys. All symbols from a normal US keyboard and a normal German keyboard are present (with the exception of the accent keys for acute, grave and circumflex). It has two shift buttons -- I personally don't use either of those (I prefer the shoulder buttons), but some people, including ED, want to have a shift button on the right too.

Yeah, pretty much what I tried to do.