Unofficial Keyboard Layouts

[WizardStan]

How would you do a shift-F9 without turning on the caps-lock?

R2+Fn+9. It is a common problem, also present on the Pandora 1.

Not a problem, shift-fn-<XXX> doesn't trigger caps lock, provided the shift button is actually pressed first. shift-fn-";" is required in dosbox in order to get the ":" character and it works just as well for the Fx keys. If you accidentally hit fn-shift-<XXX> then you have a problem.

 

[Caine]

Not a problem, shift-fn-<XXX> doesn't trigger caps lock, provided the shift button is actually pressed first. shift-fn-";" is required in dosbox in order to get the ":" character and it works just as well for the Fx keys. If you accidentally hit fn-shift-<XXX> then you have a problem.

Ah yes, that makes sense
I stand corrected.

 

[Tenka]

I wish I never had to hold down two function keys at the same time for a combination normally only requiring one.

 

[DAP]

1) no half width keys

2) no keys wider than 1.5 of standard

3) no more than two 1.5 width keys per row (on the ends)

4) no extra space between any pair of keys

Why?

Because the double wide space key is what prevents a dvorak keymap on the Pandora.A uniform array of keys is much more flexible, any key can be used for any purpose, no dedicated space bar or return key.

It allows more keys on the keyboard.

You can find all the letter keys easily with you fingers, are you really so fumble fingered as to need a double wide key for space or return?

 

[_wb_]

Central space bar is an interesting idea - it might feel a bit weird to new users, but it makes sense to put the most useful keys within easy reach.

Normal computers and typewriters only have it where it is because its in easy reach of one's thumbs.

On a handheld, at least in my opinion, central keys are harder to hit than the ones at the edges. It's much easier to hit Fn on the current Pandora than, say, the Pandora button.

I think the current spacebar layout on the Pandora works pretty well.

 

[Grench]

Not a problem, shift-fn-<XXX> doesn't trigger caps lock, provided the shift button is actually pressed first. shift-fn-";" is required in dosbox in order to get the ":" character and it works just as well for the Fx keys. If you accidentally hit fn-shift-<XXX> then you have a problem.

Ah yes, that makes sense
I stand corrected.

Doesn't that then turn on function lock? Shift-fn = fnlk?

 

[WizardStan]

Doesn't that then turn on function lock? Shift-fn = fnlk?

Not on the P1. Function lock is fn-fn. Fn is a sticky key so you can do that.

 

[God Ginrai]

I think the current spacebar layout on the Pandora works pretty well.

Agreed, although I wish the keymat had something solid between the spacebar and the two switches so it felt like pressing one key rather than two.

-God Ginrai

 

[levi]

Eh? There are no raised switches under the Pandora space bar - while there are two contact points you can't feel them. What you can feel is the two sides of the space bar button collapsing at slightly different times - with smaller, more square buttons the whole button edge tends to collapse as one structural collapse, while the space bar can partially collapse on one side as you apply more pressure on that side, before finally coming down on both sides as you press down fully.


We don't know yet how the Pyra keyboard will be constructed. If it uses a similar oblong rubber collapsing element as the pandora, it will feel similar. If it uses two distinct collapsible contacts the way it collapses may feel even more obviously one-sided than the Pandora's space bar does. Full-sized computer keyboards typically use a hinge mechanism to ensure that pressure at one side of the bar brings down the other, and a single contact in the middle, but that's as much about ensuring that the movement onto the keyswitch is vertical, and that the space bar cannot become entangled with its neighbouring keys than it is pressed and released than it is about disguising the single point of contact.

 

[comradekingu]

I made a post concerning switches, with my fav ones listed. When you consider the real compromises and tradeoffs its easier to make a good layout that actually works.

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/15368-switches-for-pyra-keyboard/?p=304698

 

[Caine]

Central space bar is an interesting idea - it might feel a bit weird to new users, but it makes sense to put the most useful keys within easy reach.

Normal computers and typewriters only have it where it is because its in easy reach of one's thumbs.

 On a handheld, at least in my opinion, central keys are harder to hit than the ones at the edges. It's much easier to hit Fn on the current Pandora than, say, the Pandora button.

I think the current spacebar layout on the Pandora works pretty well.

Yes, this is a very valid point. If I play around with the idea on my Pandora, I notice that a central place does make me type faster as I can easily use both hands, but it doesn't feel more natural and my right hand automatically wants to move to the lower right.
Ok, new attempt (apologies for spamming many ideas):

Legend:

• Green buttons are default in-game bindings for buttons (Menu = emulator/game menu, Pyra = system wide overlay menu)
• Blue buttons are the Fn combinations
• As few Fn combinations as possible to allow for maximum configurability for international layouts (Both Fn and Meta (user bindable) combinations are possible)
• Most regular keyboard keys directly accessible without needing combinations and on or close to regular position
• Symmetric keyboard layout divides keys evenly between left and right hand
• Dedicated mouse buttons to simplify mouse clicks instead of using the right nub (which now does scrolling)
• NumPad can be flipped to adhere to normal PC order instead of phone layout (no strong preference from me)
• Only one key wider than Pandora 1 and only slightly deeper (top number row replaced by ESC row, additional row between nubs)

<edit>Ah dang it. Dvorak doesn't really map.</edit>
<edit2>Potential layout for Qwerty / Dvorak / Colemak

The space and enter positions feel a bit odd like this, but it would support more layouts while keeping a relatively small form factor.

</edit2>

 

[comradekingu]

The nubs also are button evens from what ive understood, meaning they can each be clicked.

With a 13 wide keyboard you get fewer options for switches.

 

[WizardStan]

The nubs also are button evens from what ive understood, meaning they can each be clicked.

Only when centred. They wouldn't make very good mouse buttons.

 

[bzar]

^ What the nub clicks could do is change nub modes? Mouse buttons/scroll for one?

 

[Caine]

^ What the nub clicks could do is change nub modes? Mouse buttons/scroll for one?

I would just reserve them for gaming purposes.

 

[Grench]

I would be inclined to swap enter and space on that layout.

The outside corners on a thumb keyboard are where the accidental key presses will happen.  Accidentally hitting space with your palm is rarely deleterious.  Enter is usually a bigger 'oops' moment.

Or possibly swap Enter with | \?  I know it's less traditional, but I could see pipe | and backslash \ living next to ? and slash / pretty easily.

I'm just not comfortable with Enter being on that outside corner.

 

[_wb_]

I'm still not convinced that the numeric keypad between the nubs is a good idea. Those keys would be rather hard to reach. You don't get the benefit of being able to use muscle memory when you're used to typing numbers on a numeric keypad with your right hand, because you'll probably not use it like that (at least not while using it as a handheld). Either the order is like phones (1 2 3 on the top row), but then it's not like a normal numeric keypad, or it is like a normal keypad (7 8 9 on the top row) but then the F-x keys have a strange order. Either way, you don't get the normal QWERTY positions for symbols, and the F-x keys are grouped by three which is strange (usually they're grouped by four). Moreover, START/SELECT/PYRA have to be moved to a weird spot.

Don't get me wrong, I still think it's a very refreshing and original idea to put a numeric keypad between the nubs. But it also has a number of disadvantages that may outweigh the advantages.

 

[_wb_]

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/e0ed8fe08a9567fcec8dcf1a19272efe

In this proposal, there are 8 action buttons, 4 main ones like the ones we had before, and 4 smaller ones that map to insert, delete, backspace and enter.

By mapping backspace and enter to action buttons, we can get rid of the rightmost column of keys, in other words, the width of the keys can be increased. In the proposal above, the main letter and number keys are wider than the punctuation mark keys -- I'm not sure if that is a good idea, but I think it's an interesting idea to toy with.

In the layout above, the keys can be about the same width as on the current Pandora. But it's a much more complete keyboard where most of the core keys are in their normal position.

In fact, since most keys are in their normal positions now, there will be much less need to use Fn combinations: in this layout, it's only needed for ESC and the F-keys. So maybe Fn no longer needs to be that easy to reach, and can be moved e.g. to the left of Z, to make the space bar a bit wider and easier to reach. Like this: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/e36a2affce22580765e0e0ed6abfe2fe

 

[WizardStan]

Something about these 3/4 width keys feels... funny. I may just be too used to the Pandora keyboard and all they similarly need is getting used to. Hmm...

 

[comradekingu]

As much as a full layout is good for adaptability from regular into more of the same, and coding, the current layout looks good, and it has even spacing on the PCB.

Also, including more keys takes away usability because you have to use smaller keys.  11 wide is about all that a feasible good key width can accommodate in total.

I updated: http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/15368-switches-for-pyra-keyboard-updated-13-jan/?p=304698