Testing alternative Layouts that require single-width space. INTL layout vs Big Space, and other key

[Saber]

No comments on my proposal to call the extra action buttons IN and OUT?
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/23ba7b54b7f5b28037dc95a2381d880b


With Meta they should map to keypad + - (although this does not need to be on the label), so you can use them for zooming shortcuts like Ctrl-+/- and Ctrl-Alt-+/- (and of course programs like PIV and any game that involves zooming could use those buttons for that). Also, IN resonates with the primary function Insert, and it's not a far stretch from OUT to Delete.

At first I wasn't sure what IN and OUT were. Besides Meta, do you have any ideas on what we can call the new "Fn" key? You're much more familiar with Linux and coding so anything come to mind? Some sort of glyph that echos the word punctuation?

 

[comradekingu]

I think puzzle is a good name for meta, and then having it be a puzzle piece. Makes sense.  Since you puzzle together a command.

Then you label the meta-functions with a puzzle piece that fits with the one on the "meta" button.

Isnt the pyra-button the same as super  (windowsbutton) ?

Wb: caps lock on shift isnt a bad idea. But you should get tab on the left and shift on the right. Think about when you use shift. The left hand should be occupied with finding the next button while the right is busy with dot enter and then holding shift.

 

[Saber]

I think puzzle, and then having it be a puzzle piece. Makes sense.  Since you puzzle together a command.

Then you label the meta-functions with a puzzle piece that fits with the one on the "meta" button.

I kind of like the dragon ED has on his webshop page.

We could go with an electric blue flame identical in color to the punctuation symbols.

 

[_wb_]

Make it the Pyra logo and call it the Pyra key/modifier. And let the color be flame red.

 

[Saber]

Make it the Pyra logo and call it the Pyra key/modifier. And let the color be flame red.

What if the base of it was blue(same color as punctuation marks on the keycaps) and the outer region of the flame was red. Turn it on it's side with the flame tip pointing toward the Space key or up diagonally Northwest towards the other keys? Half serious about this.

Found this neat wallpaper while I was looking for a flame pic

at 1600x1200:

http://www.wallpaperhere.com/Fractal_Wolf_94513/download_1600x1200

 

[comradekingu]

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/eeadea4ae921d297dae23d6e515dc8f1

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/be8eca05fcf834604b7830b191d68cf2  dont know if doing like this on P+1 breaks the 3 prints per letter rule (edit: cleaned up formatting)

The shift+ side of the number row is the same standard US one, but i loaded the AltGR+ one with the missing keys.  There is no § and ½ for example, only the things thought to be useful.

Shift is on the ergonomical side which means this is a 3+(1) layout, where you can assign shift to somewhere else if you want a true +4

Everything that is in plain view should cover everyone at the basic level. Exchanging the P+2 L+2 coding cluster is the only change to adding a regional layout.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/eb6209750d77e16646d6fbb090fa6322 Example, German layout. Changing to it just makes the +4 buttons behave differently.

TY to Caine for fruitful discussion on PM:

No longer able to toggle hdmi on/off, since it doesn't use a lot of battery a standard state of off for those who never use it, and on for those who do, which you can change in-session in the panel-tray.

[1] [2] [power] [3] [4]

[1] = BT                   On/Off
[2] = WiFi                 On/Off
[3] = 3G                   On/Off                                                               
[4] = Brightness       Low/Medium/High

No metas, just press button and get required action, easy and simple.

3G and WiFi are together since you typically use one or the other.

Edit2: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/b67ad8508e0a6f55680968fda6b3c740   Made the buttons similar to what the actual layout will have to look like.  Its evident that the meta shape is too much visually. Instead a pure colour-coding can be used.  Red, fire, F-row, discuss?

 

[DAP]

I see no reason we would need to shorten the spacebar

The one thing that MUST happen is to shorten the space bar.

If you don't shorten the space bar, many alternate keymaps do not work. The example of this that affects me directly is Dvorak, it can't be done on the Pandoras keyboard, and this prevents me from using Pandora for anything that requires text entry.

 

[bzar]

The whole point of two shifts on the keyboard is that you can safely remap them however you want, because everyone knows that L1 is all the shifts a power user needs. Having double shift as a default makes it look nice and user friendly though.

That could actually work.

 

[_wb_]

@comradekingu: your latest proposals all have Meta and AltGr, which is too much if you ask me. Also you don't have L1=Shift, which hurts backwards compatibility. In fact, you don't have Shift on any shoulder button. That is a huge step backwards for me.

Nothing changed, just improved the label positions a bit:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/28672ef68dae4be3d34b23f20c0335f5

 

[comradekingu]

(edit: hehe, i had your layout open, stealing with both hands, when you posted inb4 me as i submitted this post)

Having two shifts makes it look like someone applied 10-finger typing logic to make a two thumb keyboard.

When one is redundant, being able to remap it is a secondary concern to shipping buttons that don't do anything useful.

The reason you "shorten" the space is you never extend it in the first place, not because it provides additional benefits.

When these are controlled by the right hand to ability, increasing buttonsize and shipping duplicated buttons takes away from functionality.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/6af51e5f774631a0087a73aeab9458ff

Space is now more centrally located.  You can go from comma to space, and from dot to enter.

Logically shift should be right on top of enter too, but that conflicts with a straight implementation of  +3   in  P+1  L+2  as is the case with german.

Added labels back on column-keys.    Is it just going to be the same as pandora here, or is there something better to do?

We got to ask ourselves what buttons the user wants to remap, and its the +4 first and foremost.  Im ok with having shift as a shoulder then, because it makes

a straight plug-in +4 layout possible.  (without having to remap also the functionality you take away)

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/60fa7107892c9323d34b06309fdad3ef

 

[rygD]

And why Caps lock on Tab?
It's the least important key for me (The most annoying one as I often press it accidentally).

You are not alone.  I would be fine if I never encountered another Caps Lock key.

 

[Saber]

Updated again. This time there are two versions, one with fewer changes and the other a more radical approach.

Version 1

Version 2

The detailed explanation for both can be found here.

 

[Glyph Reader]

Slightly on-topic question: Does anyone really use CAPS LOCK?  Am I just someone that doesn't like that key?

-Glyph Reader

 

[_wb_]

I NEVER USE CAPS LOCK BUT I GUESS IT IS USEFUL FOR SCREAMING

 

[Caine]

TY to Caine for fruitful discussion on PM:

No longer able to toggle hdmi on/off, since it doesn't use a lot of battery a standard state of off for those who never use it, and on for those who do, which you can change in-session in the panel-tray.

Ehhh... you're welcome. Though I more or less conclude exactly the opposite from that discussion

 

[_wb_]

Something like this is what I had in mind (but perhaps with the ◆ Meta replaced with [pyralogo] Pyra)

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/07c793fdec592dcc7022cb1e50a80f87

 

[comradekingu]

(edit: Down with caps lock! N-N NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO )

Nice ideas wb. Updating firstpost with that.

I was alerted to the how the column-keys are hard to reach when you have small hands.  If we think of them as windsheild wipers with respect to their position, the button next to power is the least accessible.

Therefore the button we dont duplicate on either shoulders or the keyboard itself, should be within reach.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/6b2a76d57438e3540d298904aec0c131

Edit: From the PCB layout it seems like start/alt top   Select/ctrl mid and Pyrabutton most central at the bottom.

 

[_wb_]

Why do you insist on five modifier keys? I think 4 is plenty, if anyone wants more they can remap one of the redundant shift keys to it, but 4 (Shift, Meta, Alt, Ctrl) is enough and a number that conveniently corresponds to the number of shoulder buttons.

 

[comradekingu]

I dont insist, but having more breaks the least amount of conventions, ( because you dont give up third or fourth level input https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altgr )

and it opens up more possibilites.  I know less is convenient to the given restrictions, but it is also an arbitrary number. Im trying to make sense of it, not claiming i do. And while your proposal makes a lot of sense for what it is, there are other possibilities to explore.

 

[rygD]

Since it is being discussed here, and Saber mentioned it in the other keyboard thread, I want to talk about the Pyra key a bit.  As I understood it the Pyra key was going to be super like it was on Pandora.  On my Pandora this is probably my single most used key.  Are most people ok with getting rid of it?

For meta maybe we could have a sideways or "tilted Pyra" key so that we have something similar to the old open and closed apple keys.

I still need to look at changes in both threads and get caught up for the day.