Testing alternative Layouts that require single-width space. INTL layout vs Big Space, and other key

[levi]

If we've got as far as boiling down to axoims that the designers can't agree on, as Kingu seems to have, then those can be posed as poll questions (if anyone disagrees with them), and then we could use them to decide which designer is right, and which is barking up a lonely tree. I don't think we should be voting on complete layouts, as that will only inspire this conversation over again (and again), though we could link the axioms to concrete designs as an example, for those who read past the poll before voting.


Personally I sometimes need unusual characters in the shell as some of my music files come from around the world and use odd characters, though I can often avoid typing them via tab completion. It doesn't matter to me if it's a slow operation like the current two-key compose solution of Pandora, as well as the compose solution is labelled (and for that use, I tend to prefer a compose solution rather than a dedicated key, as I don't really think of crossed-out o as a distinct character, but as an o with a slash through it). I suppose I should also say that I evidently don't use them much at all, as on this netbook I don't have a permanently configured compose button. I do know how to set one up though, so it would be nice if I didn't have to type 'crossed-out o' up there, but it's a faff I couldn't be bothered with here.


So in short, I don't really need dedicated 'foreign' letters when in the shell, and not at all when coding, but having some built-in way to get them should I ever really need them might be nice to have.

 

[WizardStan]

I'm not really liking the position of the DEL button, but I honestly can't think of a better place for it other than the original proposal to put INS and DEL as the new +/- action buttons, but then where to put the needed + and - characters. You may have the best possible compromise.

 

[Grench]

Like we discussed on IRC, it's perhaps time to conclude and maybe start a poll in a new thread to vote amongst the current generation of proposals.

Here is a summary of my proposal:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/d0ffb999582eadef7871f5ab542a77fd

Looks great with one glaring and unacceptable exception.  You have used characters on your keypad that are not present in the extended ASCII character set.  What is it with the Greek crap again?  I thought that was long settled 'No, God no, burn it with fire' done?

Stick with characters on keys that can be found in this list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_ASCII#mediaviewer/File:Table_ascii_extended.png

That layout is so close - then you have to go and ruin it with the Greek crap again.

 

[slaeshjag]

Extended ASCII can go fuck itself. We don't live in 1981, systems can handle unicode now.

 

[_wb_]

Extended ASCII can go fuck itself. We don't live in 1981, systems can handle unicode now.

Actually it's more likely that something handles Unicode correctly than that the Extended ASCII set is the one you want it to be. There are many ways to extend 7-bit ASCII into 8-bit.

Anyway, the physical labels of the action buttons are an orthogonal concern that is better discussed separately. It's mostly an æsthetical matter. Like we can discuss whether we put ↹ or "Tab" or both on the Tab key.

The main thing to discuss now is the default behavior of the keys. Home/End/PgUp/PgDn for the four main action buttons is not controversial. There are many opinions on how to call them and what letter/icon/image to put on the key label, but everyone agrees that they should map to Home/End/PgUp/PgDn.

For most of the other keys, there is less agreement on what they should map to. So let's finalize the functions of the keys first, we can discuss the looks of the labels later.

 

[benoitb]

I don't understand the question in the poll so I didn't answer.

I am used to writing on the french azerty layout, on a keyboard with or without an azerty labeling. What I mean is I won't be mad if the keyboard is qwerty without any access to accentuated letters, I can blind tape azerty.

It is not reasonnable to write french text without direct access to these : é ' è à ç , .

I don't want to have to type 2 or 3 keys each time I need to input one of those. Typically I can be on qwerty when on a shell, typing URLs, gaming, etc... but I'll switch to azerty to write real text in french (email, chat, forum, blog, etc..).

I guess my conclusion would be that I would like it to be easy to switch between layouts

Also, would it be possible to have a sort of IME with some powerful software that directly converts "Un garcon est alle au chateau" to "Un garçon est allé au château" ? I think Blackberries can do this automagically with their hardware keyboards. That would allow us to keep a simple qwerty layout.