Testing alternative Layouts that require single-width space. INTL layout vs Big Space, and other key
- Thread starter comradekingu
- Start date
comradekingu
Glowing ember
I strongly prefer a device that sells as many units as possible. Try it with single width spacebar. On the pandora i can type blind and hit the spacebar on the left side every time.
Lets say its unusable for you with single width space, if you are so inclined, its easier to add a double-width spacebar by filing off one divider, than vice versa.
Edit: I didnt even need to get into those layouts to make the pouint. 10 most populous nations of europe listed in firstpost with corresponding layouts. Only UK is the exception.
Lets say its unusable for you with single width space, if you are so inclined, its easier to add a double-width spacebar by filing off one divider, than vice versa.
Edit: I didnt even need to get into those layouts to make the pouint. 10 most populous nations of europe listed in firstpost with corresponding layouts. Only UK is the exception.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2010
- Messages
- 11,418
Wondering if there could be room to fit an extra key, but make the spacebar just slightly bigger than a single key width. Perhaps the size of a key and a half or quarter... Just looking for compromises here before it's too late to make changes.
Tweaked my proposal a bit:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/31078ff6b6871efc0be3258e7ed0c565
Got rid of some of the exotic diacritics because they're probably not useful anyway. Moved the position of some of the diacritics to make more sense (so their most common uses are double taps):
- ring (◌̊) is now at A so Å is easy to type (as in Ångström)
- háček (◌̌) is now at Z so Ž is easy to type (as in Žižek)
- tilde (◌̃) is now at N so Ñ is easy to type (as in El Niño)
- cedilla (◌̧) is now at C so Ç is easy to type (as in façade)
- bar (◌̷) is now at L so Ł is easy to type (as in the Polish złoty)
The diacritics that are typically put on different letters without a clear "most common" one, cannot have a useful double-tap location, so they are in somewhat arbitrary locations:
- macron (◌̄) is at M
- diæresis (◌̈) is at D
- grave (◌̀) is at G
- circumflex (◌̂) is at S (putting it close to the other French accents)
- acute (◌́) is at F (next to grave)
- hook (◌̡) is at J (because it looks like a J, in fact some would say that "J" is just "I" with hook)
- oginek (◌̨) is at H (next to hook, since oginek is a kind of reverse hook)
I got rid of the breve, underdot and overdot, because I think they're too rarely used. I also got rid of the µ for the same reason (it's easy enough to remember that you can get that symbol with Compose-M-U).
So now there are four letter keys (K,X,V, B) without any Meta label, to be mapped by the user to whatever they want.
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/31078ff6b6871efc0be3258e7ed0c565
Got rid of some of the exotic diacritics because they're probably not useful anyway. Moved the position of some of the diacritics to make more sense (so their most common uses are double taps):
- ring (◌̊) is now at A so Å is easy to type (as in Ångström)
- háček (◌̌) is now at Z so Ž is easy to type (as in Žižek)
- tilde (◌̃) is now at N so Ñ is easy to type (as in El Niño)
- cedilla (◌̧) is now at C so Ç is easy to type (as in façade)
- bar (◌̷) is now at L so Ł is easy to type (as in the Polish złoty)
The diacritics that are typically put on different letters without a clear "most common" one, cannot have a useful double-tap location, so they are in somewhat arbitrary locations:
- macron (◌̄) is at M
- diæresis (◌̈) is at D
- grave (◌̀) is at G
- circumflex (◌̂) is at S (putting it close to the other French accents)
- acute (◌́) is at F (next to grave)
- hook (◌̡) is at J (because it looks like a J, in fact some would say that "J" is just "I" with hook)
- oginek (◌̨) is at H (next to hook, since oginek is a kind of reverse hook)
I got rid of the breve, underdot and overdot, because I think they're too rarely used. I also got rid of the µ for the same reason (it's easy enough to remember that you can get that symbol with Compose-M-U).
So now there are four letter keys (K,X,V, B) without any Meta label, to be mapped by the user to whatever they want.
comradekingu
Glowing ember
Very nice compromise, that is actually usable.
I would however put p+1 and l+2 since that is more german friendly. as per
{backcolor:"#444444"},
[{c:"#333333",t:"#ffffff",w:2,h:0.5,w2:1,h2:1},"L1\n\n⇧Shift",{x:9,w:2,h:0.5},"⎈ Ctrl\n\nR1"],
[{y:-0.5,w:2,h:0.5},"L2\n\n◆ Meta",{x:9,w:2,h:0.5},"⎇ Alt\n\nR2"],
[{y:-0.5,x:2.6,c:"#111111",h:0.8},"Esc\n\n\nWifi",{x:0.10000000000000009,h:0.8},"~\n`\n\n3G",{x:0.8999999999999995,c:"#88ff88",t:"#111111",a:7,f:8,w:2},"POWER",{x:0.9000000000000004,c:"#111111",t:"#ffffff",a:4,f:3,h:0.8},"☀▼\n\n\nBT",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"☀▲\n\n\nHDMI"],
[{y:0.3999999999999999,x:9.9,a:0,f:8,f2:6,w:0.9,h:0.9},"⎀\n\n\n+"],
[{y:-0.8999999999999999,x:5.6,f:5,w:2,h:0.7},"\n\n\n\nAlt\n\n⎇\nSTART",{x:3.4000000000000004,a:7,f:9},"Y\n\n\n\nPgUp"],
[{x:5.6,a:0,f:5,w:2,h:0.7},"\n\n\n\nCtrl\n\n⎈\nSELECT",{x:2.4000000000000004,a:7,f:9},"A\n\n\n\nHome",{x:1},"B\n\n\n\nEnd"],
[{x:5.6,a:0,f:5,w:2,h:0.7},"\n\n\n\nMeta\n\n◆\nPYRA",{x:3.4000000000000004,a:7,f:9},"χ\n\n\n\nPgDn"],
[{y:-0.7999999999999998,x:9.9,a:0,f:3,f2:9,w:0.9,h:0.9},"⌦\n\n\n-"],
[{y:0.2999999999999998,x:0.6,a:4,f2:3,h:0.8},"\n\n!\nF1\n\n\n1",{x:0.10000000000000009,h:0.8},"\n\n@\nF2\n\n\n2",{x:0.10000000000000009,h:0.8},"\n\n#\nF3\n\n\n3",{x:0.10000000000000009,h:0.8},"\n\n$\nF4\n\n\n4",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n%\nF5\n\n\n5",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n^\nF6\n\n\n6",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n&\nF7\n\n\n7",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n*\nF8\n\n\n8",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n(\nF9\n\n\n9",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n)\nF10\n\n\n0",{x:0.09999999999999964,a:7,f:6,f2:1,h:0.8},"⌫\nBackspace"],
[{y:-0.09999999999999964,c:"#ffffff",t:"#111111",a:4,f:3,f2:5,h:0.8},"\n\n\n²\n\n\nQ",{x:0.10000000000000009,h:0.8},"\n\n\n³\n\n\nW",{x:0.10000000000000009,a:0,h:0.8},"\n\n\n€\n\n\nE",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n=\n\n\nR",{x:0.10000000000000053,h:0.8},"\n\n\n_\n\n\nT",{x:0.09999999999999964,a:4,h:0.8},"\n\n\nß\n\n\nY",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\nÜ\n\n\nU",{x:0.10000000000000053,h:0.8},"\n\n\nÄ\n\n\nI",{x:0.10000000000000142,h:0.8},"\n\n\nÖ\n\n\nO",{x:0.09999999999999964,a:0,h:0.8},"\n\n\n§\n\n\nP",{x:0.09999999999999964,c:"#111111",t:"#ffffff",f2:3,h:0.8},"{\n[\n\nF11",{x:0.09999999999999964,a:5,f2:5,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\nEnter\n\n↵"],
[{y:-0.10000000000000053,x:11.6,a:0,f2:3,h:0.8},"}\n]\n\nF12"],
[{y:-1,x:0.6,c:"#ffffff",t:"#111111",f2:5,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̊\n\n\nA",{x:0.09999999999999987,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̂\n\n\nS",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̈\n\n-\nD",{x:0.10000000000000009,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌́\n\n+\nF",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̀\n\n\nG",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̨\n\n\nH",{x:0.10000000000000053,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̡\n\n\nJ",{x:0.10000000000000142,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\n\n\nK",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̷\n\n\nL",{x:0.09999999999999964,c:"#111111",t:"#ffffff",f2:3,h:0.8},":\n;\n\"\n'"],
[{y:-0.09999999999999964,a:5,f:9,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\nShift\n\n⇧",{x:0.10000000000000009,c:"#ffffff",t:"#111111",a:0,f:1,f2:5,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̌\n\n\nZ",{x:0.10000000000000009,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\n\n\nX",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̧\n\n\nC",{x:0.10000000000000053,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\n\n\nV",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\n\n\nB",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̃\n\n\nN",{x:0.10000000000000053,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̄\n\n\nM",{x:0.10000000000000142,c:"#111111",t:"#ffffff",a:4,f:3,h:0.8},"<\n,\n|\n\\",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},">\n.\n?\n/",{x:0.09999999999999964,a:5,f:8,f2:1,h:0.8},"↹\n\n\n\nTab",{x:0.09999999999999964,f:9,f2:2,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\n\n\nSPACE"]
[{c:"#333333",t:"#ffffff",w:2,h:0.5,w2:1,h2:1},"L1\n\n⇧Shift",{x:9,w:2,h:0.5},"⎈ Ctrl\n\nR1"],
[{y:-0.5,w:2,h:0.5},"L2\n\n◆ Meta",{x:9,w:2,h:0.5},"⎇ Alt\n\nR2"],
[{y:-0.5,x:2.6,c:"#111111",h:0.8},"Esc\n\n\nWifi",{x:0.10000000000000009,h:0.8},"~\n`\n\n3G",{x:0.8999999999999995,c:"#88ff88",t:"#111111",a:7,f:8,w:2},"POWER",{x:0.9000000000000004,c:"#111111",t:"#ffffff",a:4,f:3,h:0.8},"☀▼\n\n\nBT",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"☀▲\n\n\nHDMI"],
[{y:0.3999999999999999,x:9.9,a:0,f:8,f2:6,w:0.9,h:0.9},"⎀\n\n\n+"],
[{y:-0.8999999999999999,x:5.6,f:5,w:2,h:0.7},"\n\n\n\nAlt\n\n⎇\nSTART",{x:3.4000000000000004,a:7,f:9},"Y\n\n\n\nPgUp"],
[{x:5.6,a:0,f:5,w:2,h:0.7},"\n\n\n\nCtrl\n\n⎈\nSELECT",{x:2.4000000000000004,a:7,f:9},"A\n\n\n\nHome",{x:1},"B\n\n\n\nEnd"],
[{x:5.6,a:0,f:5,w:2,h:0.7},"\n\n\n\nMeta\n\n◆\nPYRA",{x:3.4000000000000004,a:7,f:9},"χ\n\n\n\nPgDn"],
[{y:-0.7999999999999998,x:9.9,a:0,f:3,f2:9,w:0.9,h:0.9},"⌦\n\n\n-"],
[{y:0.2999999999999998,x:0.6,a:4,f2:3,h:0.8},"\n\n!\nF1\n\n\n1",{x:0.10000000000000009,h:0.8},"\n\n@\nF2\n\n\n2",{x:0.10000000000000009,h:0.8},"\n\n#\nF3\n\n\n3",{x:0.10000000000000009,h:0.8},"\n\n$\nF4\n\n\n4",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n%\nF5\n\n\n5",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n^\nF6\n\n\n6",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n&\nF7\n\n\n7",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n*\nF8\n\n\n8",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n(\nF9\n\n\n9",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n)\nF10\n\n\n0",{x:0.09999999999999964,a:7,f:6,f2:1,h:0.8},"⌫\nBackspace"],
[{y:-0.09999999999999964,c:"#ffffff",t:"#111111",a:4,f:3,f2:5,h:0.8},"\n\n\n²\n\n\nQ",{x:0.10000000000000009,h:0.8},"\n\n\n³\n\n\nW",{x:0.10000000000000009,a:0,h:0.8},"\n\n\n€\n\n\nE",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n=\n\n\nR",{x:0.10000000000000053,h:0.8},"\n\n\n_\n\n\nT",{x:0.09999999999999964,a:4,h:0.8},"\n\n\nß\n\n\nY",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\nÜ\n\n\nU",{x:0.10000000000000053,h:0.8},"\n\n\nÄ\n\n\nI",{x:0.10000000000000142,h:0.8},"\n\n\nÖ\n\n\nO",{x:0.09999999999999964,a:0,h:0.8},"\n\n\n§\n\n\nP",{x:0.09999999999999964,c:"#111111",t:"#ffffff",f2:3,h:0.8},"{\n[\n\nF11",{x:0.09999999999999964,a:5,f2:5,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\nEnter\n\n↵"],
[{y:-0.10000000000000053,x:11.6,a:0,f2:3,h:0.8},"}\n]\n\nF12"],
[{y:-1,x:0.6,c:"#ffffff",t:"#111111",f2:5,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̊\n\n\nA",{x:0.09999999999999987,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̂\n\n\nS",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̈\n\n-\nD",{x:0.10000000000000009,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌́\n\n+\nF",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̀\n\n\nG",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̨\n\n\nH",{x:0.10000000000000053,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̡\n\n\nJ",{x:0.10000000000000142,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\n\n\nK",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̷\n\n\nL",{x:0.09999999999999964,c:"#111111",t:"#ffffff",f2:3,h:0.8},":\n;\n\"\n'"],
[{y:-0.09999999999999964,a:5,f:9,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\nShift\n\n⇧",{x:0.10000000000000009,c:"#ffffff",t:"#111111",a:0,f:1,f2:5,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̌\n\n\nZ",{x:0.10000000000000009,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\n\n\nX",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̧\n\n\nC",{x:0.10000000000000053,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\n\n\nV",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\n\n\nB",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̃\n\n\nN",{x:0.10000000000000053,h:0.8},"\n\n\n◌̄\n\n\nM",{x:0.10000000000000142,c:"#111111",t:"#ffffff",a:4,f:3,h:0.8},"<\n,\n|\n\\",{x:0.09999999999999964,h:0.8},">\n.\n?\n/",{x:0.09999999999999964,a:5,f:8,f2:1,h:0.8},"↹\n\n\n\nTab",{x:0.09999999999999964,f:9,f2:2,h:0.8},"\n\n\n\n\n\nSPACE"]
Having brackets on the keys is better than stars, because brackets are only used for coding{[?]}, and coding is very anglo-centric. Meaning öäü is never used there, so its a clean swap back and forth where you wont need both at the same time.
Last edited by a moderator:
P+1 and L+2 (i.e. swapping Enter and "]") is an easy switch, like swapping Y and Z which Germans like Askarus would also do to get QWERTZ instead of QWERTY.
Very nice compromise, that is actually usable.
I would however put p+1 and l+2 since that is more german friendly. as per
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/946677af5b90cc64c33e75c7a32ef834
Then you encourage not using inline-brackets too, which i like better.
Having brackets on the keys is better than stars, because brackets are only used for coding{[?]}, and coding is very anglo-centric. Meaning öäü is never used there, so its a clean swap back and forth where you wont need both at the same time.
As a default layout, I prefer to have my [ and ] next to one another, because putting pairing brackets ( ) < > { } [ ] next to one another makes sense.
Edit: update for less clutter: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/182161fcc0a50deb7b691093e9625511
Last edited by a moderator:
Grench
Forum Addict!
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2008
- Messages
- 6,629
Looks good. Just to clarify...P+1 and L+2 (i.e. swapping Enter and "]") is an easy switch, like swapping Y and Z which Germans like Askarus would also do to get QWERTZ instead of QWERTY.
Very nice compromise, that is actually usable.
I would however put p+1 and l+2 since that is more german friendly. as per
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/946677af5b90cc64c33e75c7a32ef834
Then you encourage not using inline-brackets too, which i like better.
Having brackets on the keys is better than stars, because brackets are only used for coding{[?]}, and coding is very anglo-centric. Meaning öäü is never used there, so its a clean swap back and forth where you wont need both at the same time.
As a default layout, I prefer to have my [ and ] next to one another, because putting pairing brackets ( ) < > { } [ ] next to one another makes sense.
Edit: update for less clutter: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/182161fcc0a50deb7b691093e9625511
Space is the key bottom right?
Left game pad is used for up,down,left,right cursor navigation. Does it get any alternate uses under shift, meta or other?
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2010
- Messages
- 11,418
I don't think any of the game buttons should have modifiers, just could get kind of odd during game play and could complicate key binding in some situations..
Last edited by a moderator:
Dpad and ABXY do not have different meaning with Shift or Meta. The two new game buttons do have a different meaning with Meta: Ins and Del become + and -. So to zoom in/out in a browser it would be Ctrl-plus/minus which is R1+R2+(those new game buttons).
comradekingu
Glowing ember
How about http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/a019411b78503300c537f1c6e6378c3a
It ties into what the user already knows, and it presents the user with what all users need. What they already have in their brains, which doesnt coincide with something that conflicts with that idea on the keyboard. Open space.
Only follow what is the most basic /established conventions and is the lowest common denominator.
I can for example upload a Norwegian config, and WB can make a dutch one, maybe wb wants to also share his coding setup
Also works as a cheetsheet to have handy or print out if you want to establish a habit.
Some paradgims are reccomended, like F-row on QWERTY with Meta to enable.
Then people can have Meta shift/ L1 L2 Ctrl alt R1 R2 or whatever they see fit. And Media controls on L1L2R1R2 that also work to answer calls when the lid is closed.
You could load a full setup, or keep adding as you go.
Compare the old pandora layout to http://crackberry.com/sites/crackberry.com/files/styles/large_wm_brw/public/article_images/2014/06/passport_hands_on_2.jpg?itok=uMM5cF4o
The latter will sell more units every time, but its just short of making sense. Taper the buttons so that its not a toy, add some modifiers, and a number row, and some buttons to make it not only for americans.
The basic typewriter is what never changes.
It ties into what the user already knows, and it presents the user with what all users need. What they already have in their brains, which doesnt coincide with something that conflicts with that idea on the keyboard. Open space.
Only follow what is the most basic /established conventions and is the lowest common denominator.
- Good for beginners because it is simple.
- Good for pros since they already know where things are/should be, according to them.
- Good for design since it is a pleasant aesthetic.
I can for example upload a Norwegian config, and WB can make a dutch one, maybe wb wants to also share his coding setup
Also works as a cheetsheet to have handy or print out if you want to establish a habit.
Some paradgims are reccomended, like F-row on QWERTY with Meta to enable.
Then people can have Meta shift/ L1 L2 Ctrl alt R1 R2 or whatever they see fit. And Media controls on L1L2R1R2 that also work to answer calls when the lid is closed.
You could load a full setup, or keep adding as you go.
Compare the old pandora layout to http://crackberry.com/sites/crackberry.com/files/styles/large_wm_brw/public/article_images/2014/06/passport_hands_on_2.jpg?itok=uMM5cF4o
The latter will sell more units every time, but its just short of making sense. Taper the buttons so that its not a toy, add some modifiers, and a number row, and some buttons to make it not only for americans.
The basic typewriter is what never changes.
Last edited by a moderator:
Good for design, but hell if you want to type symbols. Even I still occasionally have to take a look at the Pandora labels to type some of the symbols, and I consider myself to be a good blind typer on the Pandora keyboard.
No, elegant design and "not scaring beginners" are no good reasons to omit labels. And for pros who want to change mappings, I don't think it matters that much either.
No, elegant design and "not scaring beginners" are no good reasons to omit labels. And for pros who want to change mappings, I don't think it matters that much either.
HamishTPB
Member
EDIT: Post removed.
Last edited by a moderator:
comradekingu
Glowing ember
With beginner im thinking of the person who thinks: "is this something i can use" Meet that demand first and foremost.
The reason you have to look at the pandora is if you cant align your fingers with your mental map of the keys. The reason you cant input symbols easily on a pandora when looking at the keyboard is because they are in non-default positions for everyone.
We could do a new vote on layouts, but i would prefer to actually test to see what works. Especially considering click on both nubs is new and there are 4 shoulders.
So consensus is intl layout brings in more buyers, which is good for everyone.
In the same token anyone could use a keyboard without many symbols on it, anyone. There is a whole lot more of mums and casuals out there than there are gurus.
And with more people, all of a sudden it opens up possibilities of more keymat layouts. Or even custom layouts.
Edit: We only managed to find a way to input language correctly, symbols is, albeit important, a lesser issue.
The reason you have to look at the pandora is if you cant align your fingers with your mental map of the keys. The reason you cant input symbols easily on a pandora when looking at the keyboard is because they are in non-default positions for everyone.
We could do a new vote on layouts, but i would prefer to actually test to see what works. Especially considering click on both nubs is new and there are 4 shoulders.
So consensus is intl layout brings in more buyers, which is good for everyone.
In the same token anyone could use a keyboard without many symbols on it, anyone. There is a whole lot more of mums and casuals out there than there are gurus.
And with more people, all of a sudden it opens up possibilities of more keymat layouts. Or even custom layouts.
Edit: We only managed to find a way to input language correctly, symbols is, albeit important, a lesser issue.
Last edited by a moderator:
Grench
Forum Addict!
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2008
- Messages
- 6,629
Mmm... no. Having a over-abundance of odd-to-would-be-purchaser symbols may actually be a detractor to would be purchasers.
Why?
Chekhov's gun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun
If people see a highly complex keyboard with a bunch of symbols they do not recognize prominently displayed, they may/will assume that knowledge of and usage of those symbols is required in the use of the device.
Think: "I'd have bought one, but damn - I wouldn't even be able to use it since I don't recognize those symbols."
comradekingu
Glowing ember
Yes yes yes! Exactly this. If keyboard design has taught us anything, its that what works is there to stay, and if people know how to do something, they will _not_ change that.
Intl layout implemented as US or UK layout is what i mean. The P+2 and L+2, of course you don't put foreign symbols or letters on them.
Latin QWERTY and 1-9and0 number row is the only thing that isnt foreign to anyone. Get enter on the right hand side along with backspace above it, shift on the other side and punctuation in the right places, thats the basics.
Intl layout implemented as US or UK layout is what i mean. The P+2 and L+2, of course you don't put foreign symbols or letters on them.
Latin QWERTY and 1-9and0 number row is the only thing that isnt foreign to anyone. Get enter on the right hand side along with backspace above it, shift on the other side and punctuation in the right places, thats the basics.
ZXDunny
Deep avatar
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2010
- Messages
- 2,585
Aw yeah! A keyboard thread! At bloody last. I remember all of cosurgi's keyboard threads back during Pandora development, and look where that got him (hint: they did what they wanted and didn't take any notice at all).
The Space Bar should be elongated. It looks like a Spectrum, and that's all that matters.
D.
The Space Bar should be elongated. It looks like a Spectrum, and that's all that matters.
D.
Further simplified proposal:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/91c54052517b3c24ae270d8620777af1
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/91c54052517b3c24ae270d8620777af1
Catering to P+2/L+2 standard is good, and this is also helpful to me personally as a swede since it allows me to type swedish properly.
While I can live without it (I have a pandora after all), I find it very annoying to type swedish on that thing (shift+enter, Fn+s, Shift+A to get Ä... urgh)
While I can live without it (I have a pandora after all), I find it very annoying to type swedish on that thing (shift+enter, Fn+s, Shift+A to get Ä... urgh)
rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
I agree with this, and that is similar to why I said what I said. If I am looking at the keyboard and see a bunch of keys I never use, it initially seems to me that those keys are important for some reason. I understand the value of allowing more people to use it for more things, but I thought what was being suggested was to have a handful of keys I would never use unless pushing some combination to get to something that was not even printed on them. I have a better understanding now of what is being suggested, and I really like some of these ideas and layouts.
On a side note, Anton Chekov would have hated authors like Lovecraft.
Here is some explanation of my latest layout proposal:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/91c54052517b3c24ae270d8620777af1
I want the default layout to work "out of the box" for most people -- with labels matching what the keys actually do! With remapping, everything can be tweaked however you want (as long as there is no double width space bar). But it's not nice to force most people to remap.
In my latest proposal, it is very easy to type é ü ī ô à ł ž ç ñ: they are not dedicated keys, but e.g. L2+E E should be almost as easy to do as just a capital E (L1+E). It's one thumb double-tap. Those already cover a lot of French, German, Spanish, and the Slavic languages. The other cases of those 9 diacritics are also reasonably easy to type: e.g. to get ø it's just L2+L O, to get è it's just L2+A E, to get Ş it's just L2+C S, and so on. Always two thumb actions. Of course if there are particular symbols your language uses a lot, you can always remap keys to better suit your needs. E.g. if you need Å or ß, it makes sense to remap a dedicated key to it.
For the other symbols, you still need the compose key method. I couldn't find a spot for a dedicated compose key in my latest proposal, so it's at L2+Tab (although you could remap the keyboard shift to it, since L1 is a better shift key anyway). To get Å with the compose key method it's L2+Tab O L1+A (three thumb actions), which is OK if you occasionally have to type the word "Ångström", but not OK if you're a Scandinavian. Same with Æ, Ø, Ä, Ö for Scandinavians/Germans: they may want to remap [ ] ; or maybe just Meta+something to get those letters in one thumb action.
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/91c54052517b3c24ae270d8620777af1
I want the default layout to work "out of the box" for most people -- with labels matching what the keys actually do! With remapping, everything can be tweaked however you want (as long as there is no double width space bar). But it's not nice to force most people to remap.
In my latest proposal, it is very easy to type é ü ī ô à ł ž ç ñ: they are not dedicated keys, but e.g. L2+E E should be almost as easy to do as just a capital E (L1+E). It's one thumb double-tap. Those already cover a lot of French, German, Spanish, and the Slavic languages. The other cases of those 9 diacritics are also reasonably easy to type: e.g. to get ø it's just L2+L O, to get è it's just L2+A E, to get Ş it's just L2+C S, and so on. Always two thumb actions. Of course if there are particular symbols your language uses a lot, you can always remap keys to better suit your needs. E.g. if you need Å or ß, it makes sense to remap a dedicated key to it.
For the other symbols, you still need the compose key method. I couldn't find a spot for a dedicated compose key in my latest proposal, so it's at L2+Tab (although you could remap the keyboard shift to it, since L1 is a better shift key anyway). To get Å with the compose key method it's L2+Tab O L1+A (three thumb actions), which is OK if you occasionally have to type the word "Ångström", but not OK if you're a Scandinavian. Same with Æ, Ø, Ä, Ö for Scandinavians/Germans: they may want to remap [ ] ; or maybe just Meta+something to get those letters in one thumb action.
