Here Is What Will Be Happening.

[b._.o._.b]

Yeah because 'europe' is in one time zone! U must be American btw nice to meet u.

No I'm not, but I thought you were
You should be sleeping as well btw..

 

[tolysz]

It is 7am in China!
What is the answer?

 

[trix]

Try to understand a large part of the reason they try so hard to be so optimistic is that for them, this endeavour HAS to succeed. Some of them have put their entire (financial) life on the line (houses, cars, etc) to see this thing through. If it all falls down and we all want a refund because it ends up being crap, they lose EVERYTHING.

Personally, even if all of this fails, I'll count my $330 as lost, rather then ask for a refund. Because at that point, they need it more then I do.

- trix

 

[wardred]

Posting this in both forums.

I think from this weekend’s set of posts, we’ve given Craig and Co. a clear sign that we’re getting impatient, and that we don’t like the images of the last set of pre-production cases. We’ve been patient enough for quite some time now.

Hopefully Monday the factory will confirm that there is the mold grease on the cases, and that they don’t have the finish on them, and they were sent this way to try to meet the CNY deadline. At which point it’ll be up to Craig and Co to see if they want them to make a run before then.

If it were just a matter of finish, then I can live with the current cases, but there’s also the bit where there’s a hole that runs all the way through somewhere it’s not supposed to, and the cracks. Those to are structural, and not something I want to live with.

As much as it makes me cringe to say this, I think maybe it would be best to wait until after CNY for these things, even with re-assurances from the factory. The worst thing that could happen to the team would be to rush the cases out the door, probably disregarding a lot of things the Chinese might not pass up if they had more time – not that they haven’t had enough – before going on holiday. So they get their run off 500, 1000 – 10,000 or whatever, and all the cases are a bit of a mess, not packaged right, etc. because of the rush before the holiday.

So there’s an even BIGGER delay sending the cases back and pointing out the bad, or just accepting the bad. For me, cosmetics don’t matter too much, but they will to a lot of people who’ve purchased and are considering purchasing, and they will matter to reviewers. The structural stuff DOES matter to me, I don’t want a weak or pre-weakened case.

After that I’d want to pressure the company to get the team the cases, and get them to the team right. Properly finished, packaged, and anything that didn’t come out of the mold properly tossed away or recycled or whatever they do with the rejects. I don’t know. I don’t like it, I’m sure the team doesn’t like it, I wouldn’t want to see MORE delays after this, but is rushing the Chinese at this late date, right before such a major holiday, a good idea? The team will decide, but I’m a bit nervous either way. I can accept a case without a final finish - mold grease at least wiped off of it - but not one with structural defects.

 

[Nova]

That said, I am still hanging on to my order. The money is not a huge issue for me, and getting it back would not do me much good. I am really disappointed, but I will just keep putting up with it.

We differ there. I can't afford the Pandora, if I am completely realistic. I am living on horrible cheap food and just about scraping together rent payments to afford the thing. The worst thing imaginable for me is if I lost the money. It would be horrible.

 

[jaycee900]

Try to understand a large part of the reason they try so hard to be so optimistic is that for them, this endeavour HAS to succeed. Some of them have put their entire (financial) life on the line (houses, cars, etc) to see this thing through. If it all falls down and we all want a refund because it ends up being crap, they lose EVERYTHING.

Personally, even if all of this fails, I'll count my $330 as lost, rather then ask for a refund. Because at that point, they need it more then I do.

- trix

Lol what!? No one has their house on the line, this project is debt free as craig keeps stating, fair enough if u aren't bothered about yr money, but one thing is sure if/when they sell 10k + units u certainly won't be seeing any of the profit...

 

[trix]

Personally I'd happily take a totally broken case (even with crack and all) with an NDA (so no press release) just so I can start doing stuff with it. If the problems are structural rather then just cosmetic, I'd probably buy a better case when available, but until then I'd be happy if they lay the keymat and controls on the board and duct tape the whole mess together with a few kg of tape. I *really* don't care about the case as much as getting started on my projects, especially if I know I could order a good one eventually anyway.

But, they will do what they will do. It sounds like I might have a decent shot at an early one (if they ship > 500), but I'm pretty late in the queue so if I have to wait longer so be it.

I admit this lull waiting on news from the factory is turning my hair white, but it's also kind of fun and exciting

EDIT: To the guy above me: This project is debt free yes, unless it fails and we all ask for a refund. Who do you think pays for our refund? Santa Claus?

 

[sausage]

my opinion: i trust OP Team will make the most informed decision in this situation, and i will go with what's decided.

As will I. I'm happy to simply wait until they're done.

 

[palmertech]

That said, I am still hanging on to my order. The money is not a huge issue for me, and getting it back would not do me much good. I am really disappointed, but I will just keep putting up with it.

We differ there. I can't afford the Pandora, if I am completely realistic. I am living on horrible cheap food and just about scraping together rent payments to afford the thing. The worst thing imaginable for me is if I lost the money. It would be horrible.

I totally understand that, and am not saying people should not cancel. I was just saying how the situation was for me, myself, on a personal level. If there was ANYTHING I wanted to purchase, much less food I needed, I would pull out, but I am lucky enough for that not to be a problem.

 

[trix]

Try to understand a large part of the reason they try so hard to be so optimistic is that for them, this endeavour HAS to succeed. Some of them have put their entire (financial) life on the line (houses, cars, etc) to see this thing through. If it all falls down and we all want a refund because it ends up being crap, they lose EVERYTHING.

Personally, even if all of this fails, I'll count my $330 as lost, rather then ask for a refund. Because at that point, they need it more then I do.

- trix

Lol what!? No one has their house on the line, this project is debt free as craig keeps stating, fair enough if u aren't bothered about yr money, but one thing is sure if/when they sell 10k + units u certainly won't be seeing any of the profit...

QUOTE From Evildragon:
[quote name=EvilDragon]
The problem is, that Sony and Nintendo have slightly more cash in their pockets than we do - so they can simply finance everything and release it.
That doesn't work out with such small devices. The GPH has been produced with the preorder money - and the Pandora will be.
Does this mean your money will be lost when the Pandora doesn't work out? Nope, as we all gave some stuff to insure (i.e. houses, etc.)
It wouldn't make sense to sell the house to finance the Pandora, then buy it back. Instead, the house is an insurance - when the Pandora doesn't work out, you get your money back and we're all broke and lose everything we have smile.gif

So basically YOU ALL made the Pandora possible.

There are multiple ways financing such a project:

a) You are a big company and have the money to do so. Isn't the case here.
B) You take a large credit which is pretty expensive to pay back. This makes the device much more pricey, as you need to get the money back.
c) You develop the device from your own funds and THEN get preorder money to actually produce it. This keeps the device as cheap as possible. But to insure that nobody actually loses the money he paid for the preorder, you need some kind of insurance like houses, cars, etc. which can be sold when the worst case happens.
d) You see that you don't have money to finance it and give up before you even start.

We decided to go for c).
Yes, some may be pissed as they paid it and it gets delayed. However, the Pandora wouldn't exist otherwise.
And we should even be more pissed - the more delays we have, the higher is our risk. We basically all risked our life to insure you'll all get your money back in worst case, so you can really be assured we make sure and ARE sure this project will work out[/quote]

So yes, people DID put everything on the line to make this work.

- trix

 

[MDave]

I've been away for awhile, so seeing all these posts about the cases and everything, has been quite an adventure.

I can't believe they sent cases that are in worse condition compared to the 2nd revision cases. Like, did they ship out the wrong samples or something? It's gotta be a mistake to send something so broken, right? The hinge is just ... worrying. Imagine if they went ahead and produced 10,000 of these. Holy ...

Saying all that, depending on the answers we get from the factory on Monday or so, I don't think I can hold onto my order for much longer. Sad thing to say since I'm an early pre-orderer and all, but ... I have to draw the line somewhere. They've been messing with the cases for so long now, they've been messing with OpenPandora, and so they've been messing with us.

 

[gaterooze]

Lol what!? No one has their house on the line, this project is debt free as craig keeps stating, fair enough if u aren't bothered about yr money, but one thing is sure if/when they sell 10k + units u certainly won't be seeing any of the profit...

Debt free unless they have to refund everyone...

 

[Jumpman]

I've been away for awhile, so seeing all these posts about the cases and everything, has been quite an adventure.

I can't believe they sent cases that are in worse condition compared to the 2nd revision cases. Like, did they ship out the wrong samples or something? It's gotta be a mistake to send something so broken, right? The hinge is just ... worrying. Imagine if they went ahead and produced 10,000 of these. Holy ...

Saying all that, depending on the answers we get from the factory on Monday or so, I don't think I can hold onto my order for much longer. Sad thing to say since I'm an early pre-orderer and all, but ... I have to draw the line somewhere. They've been messing with the cases for so long now, they've been messing with OpenPandora, and so they've been messing with us.

I agree MDave, I'm geeting to my "LINE" as well. What the factory says is good to know, but not really important when it's all said and done! The factory has been saying many things for 6 months, what they say can't really play into the choice making at this point, can it? The team just needs to order some cases, and start sending these things out. Once folks start to use it, and see it's real, they can have a little more standing back in the community, but right now the boat is sinking, and some hard choices need to be made ASAP!


Chris

 

[trix]

@ MDave: I am happy to see you have the sense to wait until we get *real* word on Monday, and if the plan at that point makes you decide to cancel, I can understand the frustration.

However, personally, I believe it's become quite obvious that *something* has to ship this time, from all the cancel threats and such, and I think that if we are given the choice between getting a messy (even broken) case now and waiting some more, and if they send a messy unit to those that want it, and STILL offer the option of upgrading to a better case once available, if all that comes true, then I honestly fail to see why anybody would cancel at that point. I mean really, tired of waiting, opt for an early one! Want a better case, opt to wait! Want a good case but am sick of waiting, opt for an early one, upgrade later!

IMHO, craigs plan seems win/win to me.

 

[worzyl]

We differ there. I can't afford the Pandora, if I am completely realistic. I am living on horrible cheap food and just about scraping together rent payments to afford the thing. The worst thing imaginable for me is if I lost the money. It would be horrible.

Ehh? But your the man from Del Monte with bitches, guns and bling!

On another note, I personnaly would wait for an "uncracked" hinge revision, but what ever OP chooses will be fine with me (as long as it doesn't fall apart in my hands a year down the line...).

 

[WizardStan]

I have a few questions for you.
If I'm in the first batch and I'm literally tired of waiting. I want my pandora right now. But I don't want to use this crappy case all the time.
Will you send me pandora ASAP with this crappy case? Will it be possible to buy a "perfect" case when it's available? How much will it cost? Will you provide us with a manual for the case replacement?

Developers developers developers... where are you? Reply me please...

This is not instant messaging, You honestly don`t expect a reply from a development team member 3 minutes after your original question, Do you ?.

Be a doctor, Have some patients. :rolleyes:

Trooper

I know I know. I just want to attract a bit more attention to my questions.

They may also not have an answer to give for some time. Deciding to do something and actually working out the details can be worlds apart sometimes.
Do they let people do the swap themselves, or do they have to mail it back to have it "professionally" done? What happens to the warranty? Do they sell them at cost or for profit?
Here's my idea that probably won't work: people can either send it in to exchange the case at cost and maintain their warranty, or sell a new case at full price and let the user swap it and warranty is completely voided. They charge full price because it becomes a potential logistics problem keeping track of who had one of the first run bad cases, did they already get a replacement, are you sure it's not just someone pretending to be this other person, and so on. Instead, you pay the full price, get your new case, make the swap, and send the old one back, at which point OpenPandora then gives you a store credit for the difference. It isn't quite the same as getting at cost, but it would be easier to track: all new cases going out are the same price, old case coming in gets a credit refund.
Keep in mind, the case is probably one of the cheaper parts, like $5 or so I would imagine. If they sold new ones for modding at $8, that's only a $3 difference. Numbers totally pulled out of thin air, so don't quote me on them, I just remember it being not that high a cost. Maybe it was $10 per case... Anywho, point is that the credit would only be a few dollars, and I'm not so cheap to really want that back. Maybe they even credit the entire cost (or half, sell it at a loss at least) of the case when you return the old one, a kind of stimulus package for the app store. Actually, that could be totally viable, provided it's not too many imperfect cases that go out. It costs them a few thousand, but if the imperfect case gets a few really real Pandoras into the wild, and the app store credit gets those impatients to buy something on the market and start talking about it, it could be worth it. A few thousand dollars injected for word-of-mouth advertising.

 

[Monk]

You definitely have a point there, but I don't think their intentions are wrong/evil. That makes a difference to me. They just are a group of guys that have underestimated the job and are chronically optimistic (at least Craig is). I trust that they are trying to give us the product we want in the best quality as fast as they can.
That makes them trustworthy to me.

That's probably the biggest problem in many ways - it would be SO much easier to deal with this whole thing if they looked as Evil as ED's nickname. That they apopear to be trying to actually do a job, despite failing in the most catastrophic way so often, is cause for considerable consternation

Few of us stare at openPandora with loathing, but things just seem to keep falling apart. I know my money's with them until the wife decides I can't take the stress any more (stress related disorders) but my faith in believing any specific statement from them has been sorely shaken in the last year or so

 

[traylorpark]

How about this, somebody takes the case designs - goes to some small plastic molding company - and starts setting up an after market parts/modding business for the Open Pandora - in assorted colors why not! Not psyched about their case? Get a new one!

Or perhaps, someone create some cool overlay sticker designs for the case - to cover up some of the nastier places.

The point is, there are creative ways to encounter these situations. This is a homebrew community after all. Stop claiming the world is going to end and have some fun.

 

[droneb]

someone put on stickers all asmo designs and no one will complain about the case any more. ever again

 

[Gerix]

[quote name=EvilDragon]
There are multiple ways financing such a project:

a) You are a big company and have the money to do so. Isn't the case here.
B) You take a large credit which is pretty expensive to pay back. This makes the device much more pricey, as you need to get the money back.
c) You develop the device from your own funds and THEN get preorder money to actually produce it. This keeps the device as cheap as possible. But to insure that nobody actually loses the money he paid for the preorder, you need some kind of insurance like houses, cars, etc. which can be sold when the worst case happens.
d) You see that you don't have money to finance it and give up before you even start.

We decided to go for c).
Yes, some may be pissed as they paid it and it gets delayed. However, the Pandora wouldn't exist otherwise.
And we should even be more pissed - the more delays we have, the higher is our risk. We basically all risked our life to insure you'll all get your money back in worst case, so you can really be assured we make sure and ARE sure this project will work out[/quote]

What about e) Equity Financing?

[quote name=EvilDragon]
How about this, somebody takes the case designs - goes to some small plastic molding company - and starts setting up an after market parts/modding business for the Open Pandora - in assorted colors why not! Not psyched about their case? Get a new one!

Or perhaps, someone create some cool overlay sticker designs for the case - to cover up some of the nastier places.

The point is, there are creative ways to encounter these situations. This is a homebrew community after all. Stop claiming the world is going to end and have some fun.
[/quote]

Oooh, I want my Pandora in a Lapis Lazuli finish!!