Here Is What Will Be Happening.

[Creature XL]

Firstly, it is ineresting what happens when one leaves out two charackters at the end the post. for example a ":" and a ")"

Secondly, I will not use the search engine to verify my statement as I can't think of reasonable search terms which wouldn't occure 10000 times alone in this thread.
However, I will repeat my statement from many posts above:
AFAIK MWeston was mostly Ok witht teh 2nd Rev. Just some minor changes AND THE FINAL FINISH should be applied to the Rev 3 cases.
THAT is maybe the reason why everybody was exspecting wonderful cases and not this stuff. Verifying the finish was on the list of MWeston.
So, we would have to wait on AT LEAST a 4th revision so he can see the finish.

To make one thing clear, right now I am not angry any more. So, I will just wait and see.

EDIT:
Well, I wasn't right, but close. Here is what MWeston said:

They told me that the parts require a finishing process after injection to give them the matte surface we want. Test parts don't get this treatment but I told them I wanted sample parts to look like they should during large scale production. Let's hope they did that before shipping but the swirls and scratches and greasy finish is certainly not the condition any customers will be getting their units in. Hells no!

 

[Jumpman]

Firstly, it is ineresting what happens when one leaves out two charackters at the end the post. for example a ":" and a ")"

Secondly, I will not use the search engine to verify my statement as I can't think of reasonable search terms which wouldn't occure 10000 times alone in this thread.
However, I will repeat my statement from many posts above:
AFAIK MWeston was mostly Ok witht teh 2nd Rev. Just some minor changes AND THE FINAL FINISH should be applied to the Rev 3 cases.
THAT is maybe the reason why everybody was exspecting wonderful cases and not this stuff. Verifying the finish was on the list of MWeston.
So, we would have to wait on AT LEAST a 4th revision so he can see the finish.

To make one thing clear, right now I am not angry any more. So, I will just wait and see.

From what I remember, it was always said that the test cases would "NEVER" have the MP finish quality. As it was not possible to do the same for 5-10 cases, as they would do for hundreds/thousands on the line! Maybe someone can search for that statement, I'm sure it came from Michael or Craig early in the moulding process(maybe even Ed)! I really don't know when that info changed, or maybe I'm remembering wrong, but if that is the case, we will never see perfection with these small test runs! I also thought, they wouldn't even do silkscreen on non MP cases also, and they suprised the team when they put it on the revision 2 cases!

The team just needs to go ahead with a full run(500,1000,2000ect.), and see how they come out. Based on all the information I have seen, and read, the MP run will always be differant than the test runs!


Chris

 

[leggymcjeggy]

I think we need to get faith and friend asking the right questions with this factory in China, and if the answers are what we want to hear (basically what jumpman suspects in the post above), push on with MP.

If, however, the answers are not what we're expecting, and more revisions are needed, I am prepared to wait as long as it takes. Same as everyone else, I paid a lot of money for this handheld. If it doesn't shine like the holy grail when it arrives, I'll always view it as kind of a letdown. I also think craig and the team have worked too damn hard for too damn long to let their incredible mission end in a sub-standard product.

Soldier on guys. Do whatever it takes, I believe in you. I believe that a Pristine Pandora is worth waiting just a little bit longer for

 

[Mithrildor]

Some people really need to stop crying. We dont care if you want to cancel your preorder just do it and buy something that makes you happy.

Its just 2 months (no seriously, that was not meant to be joking) and just wait. The thing it self will be awesome

 

[mali]

Mithrildor, comments like that tend to cause flamewars, so it's not really helping, imo.

 

[cosurgi]

Personally I think it's time to send in Fatih (and translator) to sit on site until something that can be green-lit comes off the line. Maybe, maybe just having them there to say "once more with the finishing and silk-screening that I asked for" would be enough...

Agreed.

Agreed +1

 

[atomicthumbs]

The people canceling their orders over this seem kinda silly.

 

[VRAndy]

Yeah, I'm canceling my preorder. Thanks for all the fish.

Remember : When you decide not to buy something, remember to 'stick it to the man' by publicly announcing that you will not buy it.

Corollary : After a disagreement with a shop owner makes you decide to shop elsewhere, be sure to shout "Oh yea? Well you just lost a sale!"

 

[cosurgi]

From what I have seen of these new mouldings, your moulding company needs to run a small batch to validate thier parameters, things like mould temperature, injection pressures, cycle times etc.

These coupled with venting added in the correct positions (tiny modifications 1- 2 days max) will sort out your sinkages, short fills etc.

The greasy finish you mention is most probably due to excessive release agent used when running the mould for the first time (reduces the risk of the moulding sticking in the tool).

I have been designing plastic components for over 10 years now, and alot of your issues with Chinese moulding companies are well known, regardless which company you chose over there, they just work diferently to us.

I am very optimistic though, when these parts are run to the correct production processes, perhaps with extra venting, your cosmetic issues will be resolved.

Thanks Madcad77. I tend to agree with you here since there has to be a reason for the way things are. I'm still up assembling units as I've made some promises for the week and I am noticing that several of the parts feel like they are almost dripping with grease (release agent). I even started wiping a few off. These came right out of the mold and into the shipping box.

wow, that IS good.

 

[VRAndy]

As long as it serves its function pandora is linux based which is known for being used "underground" or kind or home made, by a small group of developers, the case will kind or reflect that ascetic.

Maybe 10 years ago. Linux is hardly "underground" nowadays.
Something like 60% of web servers are estimated to be using Linux.

I think that still works. Anyone personally using Linux is likely to be from that 'world' of industrial computer usage and tinkering with the same.

In my mind, If the Pandora was a phone, it would be more like a Lineman's handset than like an iPhone.

 

[cosurgi]

BTW: MWeston - how many cases did you receive this time?

Will you show some photos of an assembled Pandora? (I see only empty cases right now).

 

[Mithrildor]

BTW: MWeston - how many cases did you receive this time?

Will you show some photos of an assembled Pandora? (I see only empty cases right now).

+1 i want to see a real pandora in case rev 2.9 (not worth calling it rev 3 because those stupid chinese forgot something)

 

[mali]

BTW: MWeston - how many cases did you receive this time?

7

Check this thread for the full story:
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/51819-quotes-thread-for-the-blog/page__view__getlastpost

 

[Vitel]

I have a few questions for you.
If I'm in the first batch and I'm literally tired of waiting. I want my pandora right now. But I don't want to use this crappy case all the time.
Will you send me pandora ASAP with this crappy case? Will it be possible to buy a "perfect" case when it's available? How much will it cost? Will you provide us with a manual for the case replacement?

 

[fiori_musicali]

Some people really need to stop crying. We dont care if you want to cancel your preorder just do it and buy something that makes you happy.

Its just 2 months (no seriously, that was not meant to be joking) and just wait. The thing it self will be awesome

The people canceling their orders over this seem kinda silly.

Yeah, I'm canceling my preorder. Thanks for all the fish.

Remember : When you decide not to buy something, remember to 'stick it to the man' by publicly announcing that you will not buy it.

Corollary : After a disagreement with a shop owner makes you decide to shop elsewhere, be sure to shout "Oh yea? Well you just lost a sale!"

Yeah, as a matter of fact that is perfectly rational. It's called feedback: "This is how you blew it, and it was enough for me to take my business elsewhere." Much less valuable information is the boring, redundant bitching at the few people who publicly state they've had enough and are pulling their money out. We're not exactly on the verge of panic yet, so we can't attribute the canceling announcements to intentional raising of hysteria. I think it's just the strongest possible statement that you can make to express your utter disappointment. I say let them have that privilege.

 

[Kyo]

Yeah, I'm canceling my preorder. Thanks for all the fish.

Remember : When you decide not to buy something, remember to 'stick it to the man' by publicly announcing that you will not buy it.

Corollary : After a disagreement with a shop owner makes you decide to shop elsewhere, be sure to shout "Oh yea? Well you just lost a sale!"

you're kidding right? I didn't "decide not to buy it". I am withdrawing the money of mine that the openpandora team have had for OVER A YEAR now. Yes, I'm very clearly sticking it to the man. I'm sure they will promote you to pandoraking for your loyalty, but I for one had enough and I think it's fair enough to say so, but for some reason the openpandora team is absolutely forbidden to receive any negative feedback whatsoever. You guys are like their personal north korea.

It's very apparent that I'm canceling my preorder after hanging on to it (and their false promises) for over a year solely for the attention I get from the 10 people reading my post here. I'm sure it has nothing to do with being lied to over and over again, having to take their unprofessional treatment of the customers and craigs intentionally misleading, vague and cryptic messages leaving us in the dark and giving us false hope.

 

[puppydee]

Nothing like blowing off a bit of steam, come monday everyone will kiss and make up and nobody will actually cancel there pandoras despite there protests. Just another day on the board. Oh and windows 7 was my idea!

 

[b._.o._.b]

It's very apparent that I'm canceling my preorder after hanging on to it (and their false promises) for over a year solely for the attention I get from the 10 people reading my post here. I'm sure it has nothing to do with being lied to over and over again, having to take their unprofessional treatment of the customers and craigs intentionally misleading, vague and cryptic messages leaving us in the dark and giving us false hope.

You are absolutely entitled to cancel your pre-order. Nothing wrong with that. I also agree that the OP team is unprofessional. How could they be, they have never done something like this before.
Also I can understand they will try to defend their investment and may not have been always 100% open (don't think they ever lied).
Communication is really open lately though.

I can understand you are disappointed, I can also understand you want to cancel your pre-order but I don't think your reasoning is based on facts.

 

[madcad77]

Ok, Chinese new year is coming (Feb 14th), and this literally means China will be shut for 2 weeks (according to Chinese mould makers I liaise with in my work). The open Pandora team disparity need the finished mouldings shipped before the weekend.

Question: Do you have design freeze on all of the components (are you confident that the current design, if produced to drawing, will work without any further adjustments)?

if the answer is yes, then I can only suggest what I would do, given the same situation:

There is now no reason why an order for the full quantity cannot be placed on the moulders, given the right amount of quality control. The Pandora team need to make it clear to the mould makers what is acceptable, and what is not, use plenty of marked up images in a document that clearly describes the current issues.

The images I have seen show little or no finishing, the surface finish of these parts is critical as often, it covers the imperfections of the mould. Decide on a level of surface roughness, the VDI or Ra index for spark erosion is universally accepted to be the norm.

Most importantly make it clear to the moulders that if the quality of the components does not meet your requirements, then these parts will fail inspection and be rejected back to supplier, at their cost. Also make it clear that this process is not only for the initial batch, but every subsequent batch supplied indefinitely.

It is also standard practice to request a certificate of conformity for material supplied with every batch, and also an ISIR (Initial sample inspection report) for the first batch, detailing the accuracy of the critical dimensions and features to tolerances provided on the drawings (useful paperwork, if there is such a thing).

I'm not promising these actions will get you everything perfect, but it does give you a get out of jail free card, if things do go wrong again. Hopefully you will get a sizable quantity of good parts to use for production, and get the ball rolling.

I have not suggested anything here that is not industry standard, In fact any company that wants ISO9001 certification, needs procedures as described above.

Good luck.

Ps, It is now Monday, 5am in China, they will all be in work in 3-4 hours time.

 

[Kyo]

Well thanks for being understanding. I think their professionalism may partly stem from their lack of experience, but that's really no excuse for it. As for them lying, how could they possibly have thought the OP was going to come out in 2 months over a year ago? Originally they said they would bundle the TV-out cable with the device for free, because they didn't like having to pay 15$ for a cable, we all saw what happened to that. They promised showing a video booting the GUI before starting preorders. Nope. They have done absolutely zero planning ahead (as someone else in this thread said quite nicely "do they ever think ahead more than two months?" - paraphrasing)

You don't think my canceling is based on reason? I said to myself I would cancel it if it hadn't come out in august. I hung on to it because they promised us so hard that it would only be a month or two, and I retardedly believed them. Then they said it would be before Christmas, I believed them again. I even believed them when they said it would come in January, but I can no longer justify waiting for it. I have an iPod touch and the reason I wanted it so much in first place (having a lot of free time in school that had to be filled) has also vanished.

That enough facts for you?