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I don't like where F12 is located [in this proposal, - _wb_]. Can it be moved to the same row and next to F11?
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Final keyboard layout proposals - Discussion thread
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In the other thread (http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/17568-final-keyboard-layout-proposals//URL]) I specifically asked to only put finalized proposals there, to make it easier to find the proposals that are now hidden inside huge discussion threads.
This is a companion thread for discussion about those proposals in the "clean" thread. Have fun!
This is a companion thread for discussion about those proposals in the "clean" thread. Have fun!
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You cannot move F12 one row up because there are only 11 keys on the top row and AFAIK the physical layout is final.
You could move F1-F11 one row down in my proposal, so they're all in a row (which I admit is nice), but that has some downsides too:
- No more nice "accidental" connection between numbers 1-9 and F1-F9
- Meta + vowels for easy locale-dependent accented letters (e.g. Ü Ö as Meta+U O) no longer possible
- By design, the key between P and Enter (+ -) has no Meta symbols on it in my layout, just like the keys to the right of L. This is because many international keyboards have additional keys in those positions (e.g. Æ Ø Å), so in my layout, you can remap those keys to something else and put their original symbols (+ - / ? ' ") at the same spot but with Meta. Of course that can only be done if they don't already have a Meta-meaning like F11
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levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Can you clarify on your illustration which modifier buttons apply to each colour symbol on each key? Specifically, if you're not using Super as a modifier, presumably all the red text is from the Meta key - is that the case?
Do we have confirmation that was can print three different symbols on each keycap?
I'm also not completely sold on Esc being up there above left nub for vi/vim usage, but I can't see anywhere sensible to put it on the keyboard (and it being a non-modified key should be a boon compared to the Pandora where it's FN+Q)
I'd also like hardware toggles to be available under one chorded keypress. That should still be possible with the modifiers and the one hardware button, but do you have a suggested set of chords for each toggle? Should they be printed on the case somewhere too?
Do we have confirmation that was can print three different symbols on each keycap?
I'm also not completely sold on Esc being up there above left nub for vi/vim usage, but I can't see anywhere sensible to put it on the keyboard (and it being a non-modified key should be a boon compared to the Pandora where it's FN+Q)
I'd also like hardware toggles to be available under one chorded keypress. That should still be possible with the modifiers and the one hardware button, but do you have a suggested set of chords for each toggle? Should they be printed on the case somewhere too?
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slaeshjag
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In vim, ctrl-c usually works as a decent substitute for esc.
Grench
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I built something completely different for a layout.
http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/17568-final-keyboard-layout-proposals/?p=369446/URL]
I welcome suggestions. Although WB has declared this as 'final versions', I think we need to find a 'style' that fits the device, then finish refinements from there.
Thank you.
http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/17568-final-keyboard-layout-proposals/?p=369446/URL]
I welcome suggestions. Although WB has declared this as 'final versions', I think we need to find a 'style' that fits the device, then finish refinements from there.
Thank you.
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levi
Still fresh, damnit!
The location of the switches is pretty much fixed, as the almost release candidate boards have been ordered and are being manufactured now hopefully. But a double width can cover two switches, no problem - that's a question for the keymat, which afaik hasn't been finalised yet.
@Grench: Can you add a screenshot of your keyboard, so they're all in the same place?
Grench
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Just follow the link to the keyboard design site to view this version:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/4562af9f8d20cc476f635615e09965bc
That would be the same thing as I would use for a screenshot anyway.
The entire build thread detailing, 'How I got there' is in:
http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/16872-and-now-for-something-completely-different-keyboard-option/
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Mr_Loon
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Not sure how we can have a sensible discussion about final keyboard layout without this being finalised.
Grench
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Magic 8 ball says, "No".
Linux-SWAT
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I usually avoid these threads, but here I am.
The Fn should be at least like on the OP, it's useless here.
Same for numlock.
Not to mention the num pad where numbers and / * , ( are on the same key !!! Just nonsense.
I stop here because my head already hurts thinking about using this layout.
The Fn should be at least like on the OP, it's useless here.
Same for numlock.
Not to mention the num pad where numbers and / * , ( are on the same key !!! Just nonsense.
I stop here because my head already hurts thinking about using this layout.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
@Linux-SWAT Which design are you referring to? I can't find /*,( on the same key in either design posted so far!
Not quite - I need to right click it to open it in a new tab and turn on Javascript to make that work. Whereas if it's posted as an image to the thread I can just click on it.
Grench
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I think he's referencing _wb_'s layout. He has a numeric keypad embedded on the right side - top row numbers stay the same so they are not reprinted. If used as a calculator with the numeric keypad on, access to * and / become cumbersome as they're on the same keys as the number pad's numbers.
At first I thought this was his version of 'Mini SD!' for the keyboard thread, but it looks like he was serious. It's a valid concern.
WizardStan
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If I understand _wb_'s intention, it's not so much the "final" keyboard thread as it is the thread where people put their finalized layouts for everyone to look at. No discussion is to go on in that thread, it is for final layouts only. That way there's a single source for seeing all the proposals that people have made; no need to go digging through hundreds of pages across dozens of threads.There will no doubt be other keyboard layout threads with new ideas but they should all be sourced back to the pinned topic.
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Now Wizardstan, did you not see the implied snark to my post.
rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
We all have our days. It doesn't help that text doesn't convey such things very well. I think I replied to a post earlier as if the author meant what they said, and they may have been using their examples to make a point. Then again, some of us find it amusing to reply to facetious comments with mock seriousness (not trolling).
Anyway, WizardStan did clear something up for me. I understood the purpose of the thread was to make it easier for ED, and others who don't want to bother with the keyboard threads, to see everything in one place without all the pages of discussion and revision. Somehow I missed that "final" meant finalized designs. Even in that sense I don't think these are done. I am sure if ED, or someone else with a very good point, comes along and says "this is good, but" there will be changes made to improve the designs.
I would like to see what EvilDragon has to say about these proposed layouts.
