An update of the waiting game


Honestly ED, I learned a lot from the Pandora as well, and that was to not think about the Pyra much until it was 100% ready. I'm guessing there must be tons of complaints based on your post, but I have no clue, as I come and read Pyra news only when you have a new thread. I may post once to say thanks, or post the "2 month" gag in some way, but that's normally the end for me, until the next major info. So I'll normally see page 1-2, but not much past that.

The Pandora for you guys, was the same for us, as we all learned lessons. Some good, some bad, but we all learned. I would have never took on a task like this, only because I know I would never be able to devote the proper time. What you and your team has done is beyond "sacrifice", and who am I to complain? You have taken the slings and arrows to make this happen, so if I don't have anything more than a "thank you" to mentioned, I'll keep my mouth shut. As stated, your shop is doing well, so without the Pyra, you may be able to vacation, start a family, etc. But your here working a day job, side business and then trying to make this happen in what spare time is left. I've never once thought you might be doing less than your best, and I'm amazed you haven't collapsed from exhausting.

So, Thank You for your effort, as well as all those behind the scenes, and I'm still looking forward to the Pyra at some point, I just don't think about it much, as to not be disappointed with any one set of issues/problems. It will be ready, when it's ready! Even when the Pandora was finally released(well passed the plan), it was still a device ahead of it's time, and if not for production issues, it may have had a greater following. Due to the hard work put in for the Pyra, I'm hoping even delayed, it will still be the device I wanted and then some once it finally arrives.

Chris
 
I don't mind the waiting so much, but the question that's gnawing at me is: now that we've done all the hard work of designing and implementing the Pyra, how much effort will it take to create a Pyra 2.0? (Assume we use nearly identical case, screen, and inputs, and just upgrade the SOC/PCB.)
 
EvilDragon said:
Oh well, what did I miss here...?
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Not much.

EvilDragon said:
I guess it's time I give an answer as well.
...
So, what could I have done differently?
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Not much.

EvilDragon said:
Well, in my opinion: Not much.
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Theme here.

EvilDragon said:
Was that a bad approach?
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No. It was a very conservative approach.

EvilDragon said:
What would you have done in my place?
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Used the leftover unpopulated boards as Christmas cards?

At one point I had considered suggesting that you use failed boards, cracked screens, botched cases and misaligned keymats to sell, "Pyra Desk Art - the ultimate fidget device!" But then, someone would inevitably sell it on Ebay as a "Brand New Pyra!", who's purchaser would inevitably send it in demanding warranty repair. So, I had a bad idea.

If you're looking for something different to consider...

Boards:
IF the current boards being produced for the next prototype work right, ignore this. If they don't wind up not being the final boards for mass production, there are forum members who work for a German circuit board manufacturer who would like a chance to bid on the work. [There is an advantage to having the prototype boards made at the same facility as the production boards. Prototype boards are, to my understanding, currently being produced. If those populate and work properly, there is reason NOT to change shops for that work.]

Cases:
The Pyra is going to be a bit of a chunky brick. I/we? have grown to accept that fact. Get it produced and out in the wild and lets see what the crowd comes up with for alternatives?

Public relations:
It is hard to make updates when there isn't anything much to report. There is a forum member that creates a 2+ year ongoing weekly labor of love count of orders & cancellations. Maybe a corresponding, 'status of the week'? Even if it is only to say, "unchanged".
 
error said:
I don't mind the waiting so much, but the question that's gnawing at me is: now that we've done all the hard work of designing and implementing the Pyra, how much effort will it take to create a Pyra 2.0? (Assume we use nearly identical case, screen, and inputs, and just upgrade the SOC/PCB.)
Click to expand...
Well the whole point of the Pyra's design is that a "2.0" shouldn't have to be a necessary thing until far into the future as the SoC, RAM, and eMMC are all on a separate board. So basically, we can have "generational" upgrades simply by changing just one part (the SoC daughter board).
Personally I wish we could have at least one USB C port to completely future proof the Pyra and prolong the main system's lifespan, but that boat already sailed long, long ago.
Speaking of daughterboards, hey ED what's the chance that a future board could have embedded UFS instead of eMMC? I don't think the speed would be necessary, but I'm curious to see if it can be a possible future feature.
 
If you guys get really stuck, I was taught how make moulds in addition to carbon chemistry.

The reason I didn't offer this to The Roth is firstly I make negative assumptions about my skillset, and secondly he wouldn't pay the almost nothing coachfare to put togther units for customers.

Stuff I was taught involved casting alluminium in pyrex sand using wood, 3 days extreme sanding and a special paint. There's a particular surface technique going all the way back to wooden ships, and you have to use sine waves similar to playing violin. My geometic surfaces were otherwise perfect but my angles were wonky. The object in question was a mechanical vice with many polygons, so much more difficult than nearly any consumer device, old ship, sword or arrowhead. -- From what i gather the alluminium stuff has to be remade at least once a year? But it only takes 24 hours and you probably get better at making them. Also the material is recycled and forged again, making it better for product cycles. Wether or not this really saves money if you have to hire apprentices and such, not sure. Rothwell was in a good position to run such a workshop and could have even got (hint) eu funding the program to help local unemployed youths, rejuvinate local industry and such. Just saying (innocent face).
[doublepost=1526402702,1526397898][/doublepost]Oh yes, and a forgotten part of Pandora history:

Prior to ED getting his 3D printed test case, a bunch of us made mock ups out of Kindergarten materials.

My 'batch zero' Pandora was made out of thick paper, stacked up cardboard layers and decorated in pen. But due to German engineering (i'm half German) it was actually more accurate and sturdy than the Chinese one. It survived years of being knocked around and stacks of books crushing it. Honestly, the paper hinge lasted longer than my DS, lol. It does however have a pasta sauce stain on it. Should have coated it in pva glue. Fail...
 
Im currently enjoy my Gpd Win, after it’s annoyed me the last time in hear studio where I wanted to play Tetris but got a half hour of “Windows Update “ instead
But it’s quite cool for Truck Simulators ..
And I refused to play whit my Pandora again more, I also got Bluetooth Mouse and Keyboard to work (wasn’t that divicult, I just didn’t try it out until yet)

So that’s something to take me busy until I get my Pyra..

Whe need some Farming and Truck Simulator on the Pyra,
I’m still hope for Rigs of Rods

But maybe I’m find some PSX or Dreamcast Truck Games..

I was hoping to get the Pyra for my unimog trip on June , but that’s impossible..

One of the big advances of the Pyra is that I don’t need to update if I don’t want,
I’m traw my Pyra, and start the Gameboy Emulator for Tetris..
 
The moulds have already been made, by milling them from a relatively huge block of aluminium. I also did the wet sand casting of aluminium at school (I wasn't aware it was borosilicate sand, but that makes sense) and still have the junior hack saw handle I made using it.

I'm not sure how often these moulds will need to be recreated. They've been specially coated and hardened (or will be soon, I've lost track on that) to increase their robustness. If they do need to be recreated I suspect they'll get a new block and remill it from the original computer data. I'm not sure how often aluminium parts are casted that way any more - if you mill everything in a CNC mill you don't need a furnace on site, so long as you buy all the aluminium in pre-alloyed. I guess having the furnace on site in this day and age is a bit of a health-and-safely palaver you don't need if you can avoid it, and is probably more common in craft circles than industrial ones these days.

Edit: Re matzezu, I can't recall any farming type simulators on Dreamcast - all I can think of is 18 wheeler which was a truck driving arcade game. I doubt you'll find anything too in-depth on PS1 either - the games were a lot simpler back then. I think there was a farming simulator game on the 3DS though.
 
There were at least 2 Farming Games (whit Agriculture Machines) on 3DS : Farming Simulator 2012 (not That great) and 2014 (much better)
I think the Pyra is much better on PSX and Dreamcast, than the Pandora, so Truck Simulator should work..

I
 
AVahne said:
Speaking of daughterboards, hey ED what's the chance that a future board could have embedded UFS instead of eMMC? I don't think the speed would be necessary, but I'm curious to see if it can be a possible future feature.
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The eMMC is on the CPU board IIRC, so if a SoC with UFS was picked for an upgrade then UFS could be used without a problem. It would probably have to be used in fact to keep enough MMC/SD ports free on the SoC for the sockets without resorting to a switch.
 
levi said:
The moulds have already been made, by milling them from a relatively huge block of aluminium. I also did the wet sand casting of aluminium at school (I wasn't aware it was borosilicate sand, but that makes sense) and still have the junior hack saw handle I made using it.

I'm not sure how often these moulds will need to be recreated. They've been specially coated and hardened (or will be soon, I've lost track on that) to increase their robustness. If they do need to be recreated I suspect they'll get a new block and remill it from the original computer data. I'm not sure how often aluminium parts are casted that way any more - if you mill everything in a CNC mill you don't need a furnace on site, so long as you buy all the aluminium in pre-alloyed. I guess having the furnace on site in this day and age is a bit of a health-and-safely palaver you don't need if you can avoid it, and is probably more common in craft circles than industrial ones these days.

Edit: Re matzezu, I can't recall any farming type simulators on Dreamcast - all I can think of is 18 wheeler which was a truck driving arcade game. I doubt you'll find anything too in-depth on PS1 either - the games were a lot simpler back then. I think there was a farming simulator game on the 3DS though.
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Messing about with liquid metal like some kind of Sauron Orc is half the fun! Well, compared to automated production, the mild chaos of manually pouring stuff is messy.

I would have gone for manual milling too, except looking around at various actual products from shops, they have subtle imperfections of human sanding/filing. If indeed there's a link between breakage because human hands also use it on the same stress points... We'll all need to be factory robots when playing games. So there's a definite artistry based on experience or psychology? The plastic can only be done by elders who forged our behaviour patterns?

Fascinating captain. So we need to enslave CraigX. In a dungeon... Chains and whips. What's your polycarbon chain number gimp!
[doublepost=1526415721,1526414387][/doublepost]Also:

Levi is right that this was school engingeering class, but my teacher used to be iirc the lead engineer for the Colchester Lathe Company and invited me to join him for the parents open day after hours, so inbetween talking to random people he answered my questions about the moulding process as a non teacher, like pyrex sand. But this was 20 years ago now.
 
levi said:
The moulds have already been made, by milling them from a relatively huge block of aluminium.
Click to expand...

Hmm... I had thought that the molds were actually milled from steel. Currently not tempered so it is a touch easier to work with, but will be tempered when 'done'.
 
Also also:

Colchester Lathes Co is obscure now, but at one point they were world leader. I was told masses of history people don't know simply for caring enough to ask. But the company was a bunch of old Tudor famillies that built wooden barges for hundreds of years. High load bearing weight stresses. So presumably this made them world leader for a while as lathe makers. It had something todo with violin playing, as i say. But only good for angular surface. Probably why they fell out of popularity later. Limited?
[doublepost=1526417208,1526416891][/doublepost]
Grench said:
Hmm... I had thought that the molds were actually milled from steel. Currently not tempered so it is a touch easier to work with, but will be tempered when 'done'.
Click to expand...

Jeez, my memory of this is ancient, but melting points and such and... I got taught the plastic injections for Psion 3mx are iron. My engineering teacher actually showed us Psion documentarys to write essays about, and i stressed his patience level with like 1000 questions. What that do sir.!!!?
[doublepost=1526418298][/doublepost]Also also also:

Have had a chance to pick up a *cough* world war 2 machine gun from the Axis side, minus the outer casing. Inside it was, based on texture and smell... Mountain bike style tubing, mixture of alluminium and lead, pos zinc tiny amount. Welded together with lead as with bikes. The hollowness in combination with heat generation is key. Product was from the final period, less jamming. You get the idea.

also also also also

The design of a Sega Menacer is almost 100% accurate. So they stole techniques from the same source. As did the UK bike company Raleigh and various others. Even Hasbro with their water guns if i remember right. Very mainstream source to steal from. Billions of dollars already made it seems.

bonus commentry:

Earlier today i was walking home and saw this kid on a uk mountain bike derived scooter thing. He was really fat and german looking, and i mean really fat in the Willy Wonka sense that he knows deep in his heart he sold his soul to Satan for more cake and is attempted to train up to avoid conscription from hellspawn. He's running from pure evil one footstep boost at a time. It has to be sweaty or why bother? Anyhow 5 minutes later down the road and i pass his arch nemesis on a similar looking scooter, when a kid girl pulls out what looked like sega lockon headgear crossed with kid chamelon sunglasses - sega blue no less and fumbles to put them on his face in reverse clark kent fashion. To make up for the awkward, urgh girl factor he does a real vague echo of a terminator looking around with a slight yankee smugness. Axis and allies, contemporary 8 year old version. Heh.
 
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Grench said:
Hmm... I had thought that the molds were actually milled from steel. Currently not tempered so it is a touch easier to work with, but will be tempered when 'done'.
Click to expand...

I used to order around a bunch of steel for the companies I worked for and for my own projects, and some quality-specialized wholesalers deal had this category "Steel for injection molding" of alloys, and based on that I would suspect the same thing, but then again I never dealt with casting so tyhe hell do I know. If we really need to know this to bore (or infect with nerdiness) our grandchildren and it hasn't been said yet, then let's just wait for ED to satisfy our curiosity about it ;)
 
I absolutely love seeing the development process so transparently. Getting all this insight into the creating of a device to me is more valuable than having the device itself. Even if I never get it, my preorder money is not wasted, I've gotten my value already.

I do hope we're getting close though, it's been a really long time!
 
Trezker said:
I absolutely love seeing the development process so transparently. Getting all this insight into the creating of a device to me is more valuable than having the device itself. Even if I never get it, my preorder money is not wasted, I've gotten my value already.

I do hope we're getting close though, it's been a really long time!
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If you want extra transparency, Colchester Lathe Co likely have roots to Dutch slavers. At the height of the slave industry boats were sent out with rowers knowing only one third would survive. They were considered biologicalal fuel and factored into business running costs. However the dutch settlers in Colch were migrants looking for a better life.

Most of this tech ended up in Disneyland. The Black Pearl in Pirates is a copy of a slave deck built in Hull. Ships needed to bear extra weight of this deck, ergo dutch barge engineering tagteam. But the same tricks are used for all the theme park rides and posh geometric buildings - Epcot Center? So Disney are proud of their similar subversion of slaver tech, and would have certainly used Colchester lathes building the site.

ARM? Traces back to refugees from lost Napolean army. Who used the most amount of untrained child soldiers in history. Oxford residents executed them in the street as traitors, so they ran again and founded Cambridge uni.

Unix? Same commission as Hiroshima.

Linux? Finland joined the Nazi SS just to wear Hugo Boss. Hilariously never completed a single mission and basically just like fashion. But Linus is a self confessed Downfall style nutcase boss. As opposed to the team at Berkley System Distribution, who are the sort of kids who wear three coats in April just in case. Hey guys where is everyone, slow down dude wub wub.
 
But that's all history now. History (good or bad) make us better now... :D

One can't just live his whole life based upon bad experiences in the past, and worse, use the past as excuse for stuff in the present xD

Learn, forget, and move on \o/
 
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