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Prototype mainboards coming soon

Discussion in 'Pyra News' started by EvilDragon, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. ashcloud

    ashcloud Lactose Intolerant Volcano

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    Congratulations! You finally understood the issue. That's exactly what the blocking capacitors are for.
     
  2. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    The board works perfectly fine with 1,5GHz, if you only use ONE CPU.
     
  3. Eight Bit

    Eight Bit Advanced Member

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    Still no progress then? :(
     
  4. Black Sliver

    Black Sliver Still Fresh

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    I've managed to fry an µC with RF imission (30V/m (3x industrial limit)) once. That moment when you hold a measuring tape with λ/2 instead of cm or inch :D
    But stuff like that would depend on location (external RF source) and not really on load/core frequency.
    If GND "swings" at an offset to PE, that should not be a problem for the CPU itself, since other traces should then just have the same offset to PE (on multi-layer). Assuming the DC/DC blocks noise from supply lines, the relevant distance is from the DC/DC converter to the CPU (you can apply noise between VCC and GND only there).
    This would be more like cross-talk, which normally only affects high-impedance non-burried traces. So you'd probably see random SD/SPI/I²C errors before any cpu crash.
    (Assuming we are still talking about VCC,) the caps are way to big to get a (high-Q) resonator at GHz (or MHz). Besides that, the caps were already changed which would have shifted the frequency.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
  5. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Who knows? We applied a lot of fixes, but as mentioned, they cannot be tested with this CPU Board, we need to produce more prototypes of those.
     
  6. fusion_power

    fusion_power Advanced Member

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    Does the OMAP5 DEV board also has this issues?
     
  7. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    No, but that's no new news :)
     
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  8. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

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    Is there a remote possibility that it's the OMAP5 themselves? Like they're lower quality that simply can't function at the advertised rate because they're "pre-production" units or whatever you'd call them when they ship you parts to use in prototypes?
     
  9. rv6502-2

    rv6502-2 Still Fresh

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    Using only one CPU core would roughly half the RF interference caused by CPU activity.


    True, so that's eliminated.

    Probably, except that SD/SPI/I²C isn't running at 1.5Ghz so it can tolerate a bit more.


    Anyway, just a wild theory. At those frequencies lots of annoying things happen.

    It's not like weirder thing have never happened, like the Raspberry Pi 2's accidental "solar panel" crashing it by shutting down the power regulator.
    https://www.neowin.net/news/a-camera-flash-will-make-the-raspberry-pi-2-freeze-and-reboot
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2016 ---
    Usually parts sent for prototyping/sampling are the better ones so you don't have an issue and think their chips are worthless.
    "1st impressions" and all that.

    There was issues with a certain game console and some games because a few of the consumer units had slightly slower memories than the dev-kits and test-kits that had "hand picked" better ram chip so the devs never saw the issue during testing.
    The devs couldn't test on consumer units so they only got the surprise after launch.
     
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  10. Xcl4m4t10n

    Xcl4m4t10n Very Active Member

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    Im sure that I missed this, but when will the new CPU boards happen?
     
  11. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    No, often samples are being taken from the first production run, which is often a prototype revision.
    That's what's on the Classic Pandoras as well :D

    However, our current boards have the latest production revision, so it's not that.

    Probably soon. One production run costs about 10k EUR and takes 6 weeks, so we should do anything but RUSH it.
    That's why we're doing multiple tests and are improving the general layout (adding more vias, etc.), to make sure to improve it as good as possible.

    Adding more vias reduces the noise in the ground plane, so that could VERY much cause exact such issue.
    But there are some other ideas worth checking. We're hurrying, but not rushing :)
     
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  12. Kippykip

    Kippykip BFG 9000

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    Not sure if I've missed something, but has the 1.5ghz issue not been fixed? Or does need new PCBs/cpuboards to test?
    Sorry lads I just don't understand anything about power and circuits etc lmao
     
  13. shaddim

    shaddim Member

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    ? Interesting. Can someone give more information here?
     
  14. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

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    The issue has not be "fixed", some possible causes were identified and a new round of boards are being produced. They won't know if one of the things that were changed will fix the issue until the new boards are complete and tested.
     
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  15. Kippykip

    Kippykip BFG 9000

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    Ah righto, thanks!
     
  16. CapcomSuicide

    CapcomSuicide Member

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    Is it possible to guess at a realistic date for the prototype pre-orders and then main pre-order queue? I must admit my pessimistic view was that the prototypes would be done in Dec, and the 900 main orders would happen in April 2017. That looks a bit optimistic now. Fingers crossed the latest boards work as expected.
     
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  17. ThinkPad

    ThinkPad Very Active Member

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    As far as I can see,
    If all the issues on the CPU board are finally fixed with the upcoming CPU board, prototype run,
    June 2017 should be a reasonable ETA for the first 1000 units.


    If not, well... Christmas 2017... Who knows... ?!

    6 weeks are needed in between every failed prototype run, and this practice of trail and error will continue until all the issues are resolved.
    And the upcoming run will be the 3rd or the 4th one in a row...

    Even If everything is okay with this run, the preparation for mass production itself will take 2-3 Months
    Also the end price for a single unit will increase with at least with 30-40 Euro if its not already.
     
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  18. CapcomSuicide

    CapcomSuicide Member

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    Yes, I was thinking around June myself. Great that the CPU board is forwards upgradable, so the next dev cycle will be that bit easier.

    I assume if the funds run out, we will be asked to settle the preorders in advance.
     
  19. AnimatedFreak

    AnimatedFreak Very Active Member

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    I'm predicting that March will be the month that the Pyra will be rolling out to customers.
     
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  20. ClockworkCoder

    ClockworkCoder Active Member

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    The only thing I'm looking forward to right now is the return of ED's cheeky grin as he demonstrates the next fully assembled Pyra... Hopefully early January.
     
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