Action button labels: poll 2 bis

[bzar]

I wonder if changing the weighting to 0, -1, -2, -3, -4 would solve our rule breaker issue? Most seem to have one favorite rather than one... unfavorite. Voting only for your favorite would get it -10 points . OTOH, you could give one entry a huge minus and thus unfairly cast your unfavorite option to oblivion. But I think it's a smaller issue than with positive votes

EDIT: also, casting a vote only in the "best" category would have no bearing on the poll at all

 

[Neelix]

_wb_  any chance showing what the numbers are like with the invalid votes removed?

 

[_wb_]

I wonder if changing the weighting to 0, -1, -2, -3, -4 would solve our rule breaker issue? Most seem to have one favorite rather than one... unfavorite. Voting only for your favorite would get it -10 points . OTOH, you could give one entry a huge minus and thus unfairly cast your unfavorite option to oblivion. But I think it's a smaller issue than with positive votes

EDIT: also, casting a vote only in the "best" category would have no bearing on the poll at all

Haha, according to that metric, proposal 3 is currently winning with -73, followed by proposal 1 with -75, proposal 4 with -88, proposal 2 with -95 and proposal 5 with -109

_wb_  any chance showing what the numbers are like with the invalid votes removed?

Now even Wally is casting an invalid vote for 5 times proposal 1. Ugh...

Anyway, if the weights are symmetric (+2 to -2), such invalid votes are neutral. Only proposals 1 and 3 have a positive total score with that weighing.

B-ZaR's weighing is a good way to discourage such invalid votes

More seriously, using the Australian preferential voting system, we would currently get the following redistribution:

First choices: 1:24, 2:2, 3:13, 4:4, 5:1.

Distributing votes for losing proposal 5 to their second choices: 1:24, 2:2, 3:14, 4:4

Distributing votes for losing proposal 2 to their second choices: 1:25, 3:15, 4:4

Distributing votes for losing proposal 4 to their second choices: 1:26, 3:18

Winner: proposal 1.

So among the 7 voters who did not put proposal 1 or 3 first, 2 would transfer their vote to proposal 1 and 5 would transfer their vote to proposal 3.

In any case this poll just confirms what we already knew: it's controversial, the two main proposals are proposal 1 and proposal 3, and whichever proposal is picked, some people will be unhappy

Would it be a good compromise to have the Playstation-Greek labels as main labels, with small-print sub-labels "Home/A", "End/B", "PgUp/Y" and "PgDn/X" (actually the "/X" is probably not needed because Chi looks enough like an X -- but we could keep it anyway for consistency)?

That way we have backwards compatibility, and if you don't know the Greek letter and can't describe its shape (and color?), you can refer to it by its Pandora name. But we also have nice-looking labels that don't look like a completely random mess, and there is a nicely unambiguous way to refer to the action buttons without causing potential confusion with the keyboard keys.

 

[sebt3]

whichever proposal is picked, some people will be unhappy

Geez, that's just labels on buttons.If that's something that touch you enough to make you realy unhappy, you didn't have lived enough.

 

[bzar]

sebt3, I think you may be overestimating the magnitude of said unhappiness. Personally my reaction would range from "spilled coffee on shirt" and "positively surprised by the quality of lunch".

 

[Neelix]

Surely any weighting system that multiplies the votes for any given item by 0 is a bad idea.  

I also don't see how a symmetrical weighting  neutralises invalid votes.

*wonders if anyone here knows how to write IPBoard plugins and could write a preferential polling plugin* (preferably without tying it to a specific voting system)

- Neelix

 

[milkshake]

Would it be a good compromise to have the Playstation-Greek labels as main labels, with small-print sub-labels "Home/A", "End/B", "PgUp/Y" and "PgDn/X" (actually the "/X" is probably not needed because Chi looks enough like an X -- but we could keep it anyway for consistency)?

Not for me since I don't like the idea of greek symbols, I'm not going to go through why again because I have explained those reasons in an older post.

 

[Klumpen]

The new button order makes my former suggestions more fitting.

NW    N

W                E

SW    S

or

X1     N

W                E

X2     S

 

[Ziz]

Every suggested voting system seems to favor "Pandora layout + 2 extra keys (A B Y X)". So what the heck are we still discussing?

 

[Klumpen]

Every suggested voting system seems to favor "Pandora layout + 2 extra keys (A B Y X)". So what the heck are we still discussing?

No idea, the discussion about the order was senseless too, because the least favoured one is used now.

 

[Rockthesmurf]

If at first your poll doesn't give you the outcome you want, try, try again.

 

[bzar]

Every suggested voting system seems to favor "Pandora layout + 2 extra keys (A B Y X)". So what the heck are we still discussing?

If you disregard the invalid votes the result isn't as clear cut as it seems, AFAICT. Depending on weights.

If at first your poll doesn't give you the outcome you want, try, try again.

The polls have dropped unpopular opinions, so we can concentrate on the ones that actually have a significant amount of people behind them. To get comparable results from a constantly narrowing set, new polls need to be made. This poll is about dropping entire categories of options, so we can concentrate on the actual layout within a category next.

 

[_wb_]

Would it be a good compromise to have the Playstation-Greek labels as main labels, with small-print sub-labels "Home/A", "End/B", "PgUp/Y" and "PgDn/X" (actually the "/X" is probably not needed because Chi looks enough like an X -- but we could keep it anyway for consistency)?

Not for me since I don't like the idea of greek symbols, I'm not going to go through why again because I have explained those reasons in an older post.

I thought you were in favor of Latin letters, which is not necessarily the same thing as being against Greek letters. I'm trying to find something that makes most people happy, so my suggestion is to have both of them.

Could you please give me your reasons against Greek letters that still apply if there are also Latin letters? E.g. the "communication" argument does not apply anymore since if you can't type or pronounce the Greek letter, you can just use the Latin letter. The backwards compatibility argument also does not apply anymore. So I wonder what arguments remain. Do you think Greek letters are scary? Maybe you don't want to touch buttons with scary symbols on them? Do Greek letters look ugly to you? Or what is it?

Every suggested voting system seems to favor "Pandora layout + 2 extra keys (A B Y X)". So what the heck are we still discussing?

There is a significant minority that is heavily opposed to such a layout. The number of people who like proposal 1 and proposal 3 is comparable -- yes, proposal 1 gets more votes, but it's not a clear win, especially if you take into account that there's asymmetrical cheating going on. If there is no other choice, it may be necessary to ignore a significant minority, but not without some discussion first, please. Especially because if you ask me, compromises are possible: I just proposed one.

I was hoping that instead of bashing the most popular alternatives and cheating, the proponents of proposal 1 would try to come up with something better than this:

C  Y 

A      B

Z  X

or

C1  Y  

 A       B

C2  X

because frankly, those just look like a manufacturing error to me -- clearly, someone must have accidentally put the buttons in the wrong spots during assembly. A reviewer who doesn't know where this is coming from would probably think the same thing. I can already imagine the jokes about the supposed "German quality". They can't even put the buttons in the right spots! Oh wait, those are the right spots?

 

[pmprog]

The polls have dropped unpopular opinions, so we can concentrate on the ones that actually have a significant amount of people behind them

Thus sweaping out the minorities...

There is a significant minority that is heavily opposed to such a layout

Significant or not, if they are still a minority, it still means the majority outweigh them. Hmmm, shouldn't this go with the bit above...?
I really don't care about voting now, and just hope ED will make a sensible decision when he comes to make the Pyra

 

[Klumpen]

All the former votings and suggestions were based on a totally different situation and are not worth much now since there are not two bent rows anymore.

The position of the two new buttons now is very awkward for most usecases (N64, Street Fighter, Sega, etc...) but we'll have to deal with this now and not with the situation we had all this former brainstorming and voting for.

 

[foxblock]

Hey guys I have an idea let's just label the buttons like this and everybody will be happy.

Right? Right...?

 

[bzar]

The polls have dropped unpopular opinions, so we can concentrate on the ones that actually have a significant amount of people behind them

Thus sweaping out the minorities...

There is a significant minority that is heavily opposed to such a layout

Significant or not, if they are still a minority, it still means the majority outweigh them. Hmmm, shouldn't this go with the bit above...?

I really don't care about voting now, and just hope ED will make a sensible decision when he comes to make the Pyra

Minority against does not mean majority for. Majority may be neutral.

 

[Klumpen]

@foxblock: You forgot [insert] and [Delete].

 

[bzar]

Hey guys I have an idea let's just label the buttons like this and everybody will be happy.

<image>

Right? Right...?

I think you should also make the buttons RGBCMY with playing card suit backgrounds

 

[Ziz]

Hey guys I have an idea let's just label the buttons like this and everybody will be happy.

Right? Right...?

Greek symbols are the biggest?No, we should use as (relative) font size the results of this poll like shown here:

Of course we should first continue discussing, which system we use to determine the right font size!